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Can Space Marines die of old age?

Because I can't think of a single canonical example. The Blood Angels are reputed to live longer than other Space Marines, but I've never heard of a Space Marine that didn't die as a consequence of battle. So... are Space Marines (not counting Dreadnought-interred Marines) actually immortal in their life-span but simply never get to live for thousands of years because they're always in battlefields? Because that's a pretty solid method to die before your time.

I may be missing something obvious here, and I'm sure if that's the case someone will tell me in two sentences, but I dunno.

Any thoughts?

If their not interred they just wither like normal humans just at a significantly slower pace

In one of the Salamander's novels they find Space Marine Sargent thats been hidden underground so long that his armor has rusted around him and he cant move. My understanding is that they can live for ridiculously long times if they are maintained, but even if not they wont usually just die. So a lifespan of a few thousands years sounds about right to me.

Active Space Marines most likely never have a chance to die of old age - but the age at which they're considered "old" also varies between chapters. Look at Ultamarines Chaplain Cassius, for example. He's the oldest active UM, not even 400 years old yet looks like he could keel over at any moment. And he's a guy who wants to wipe out the Tyranids while leading from the front. Not much chance he'll get to die a natural death.

Aside from the Primarchs getting really, really old I don't think this has ever been touched upon in the studio material, perhaps because Space Marines are sort-of expected to die in combat within 1-3 centuries anyways.
I mean, aren't those "service studs" supposed to represent 100 years of service each? How many Marines have you seen with more than three studs in their skull?

The novels will probably explore this topic in more depth, but as always merely by providing a number of individual ideas by the hands of their authors.

Either way, rejuvenation treatment, whilst expensive, seems to be able to prolong the natural lifespan of any living being by quite a few hundred years. I simply assume Marines have ready access to the required materials, or possibly even produce these drugs within their own bodies as part of the genetical modification (though I don't think it is mentioned in the organ implant descriptions).

Yes I think, but in 10 thousand years and 1000 chapters, no space marine has ever managed the feat.

CuddlySquig wrote:Yes I think, but in 10 thousand years and 1000 chapters, no space marine has ever managed the feat.

Bjorn.

But he's in Dreadnought, so he might not count.

Chowderhead wrote:

CuddlySquig wrote:Yes I think, but in 10 thousand years and 1000 chapters, no space marine has ever managed the feat.

Bjorn.

But he's in Dreadnought, so he might not count.

Logan Grimnar is 700+
Dante is 2000 years old IIRC
So no one has died of old age but we know the maximum so far...

One more clarification - Dreadnoughts are asleep half the time and do not count, plus they do not use their bodies anymore so their bodies do not deteriorate as such. Same goes for Space Marines that go into that hibernation/stasis sleep.

purplefood wrote:Dante is 2000 years old IIRC

He's been Chapter Master for 1,100 years, and one wikia places him at 1,300 but then goes on to say that his actual age is unknown and has helpful phrases like 'believed to be much older' which is great when you're trying to get a definite answer to a question. 2,000 may be a little over, but perhaps not by much.

One other interesting thing about Dante comes by Lexicanum:

Lexicanum.com wrote:Yet for all of his success, or perhaps because of it, Dante has grown weary of his burdens. He has lived far longer than he should, and the burden of centuries grows even weightier. Only one thing prevents Dante succumbing to ennui. Recorded in the Scrolls of Sanguinius are the Primarch's visions of a great battle to overshadow all others, where one golden warrior will stand between his Emperor and the darkness. For many generations of the Blood Angels, these prophecies have been read as Sanguinius' foreknowledge of his own fate, yet through some instinct, perhaps a lingering trace of his Primarch's fabled far-seeing eye, Dante believes otherwise. One day, perhaps one day soon, the defence of the Emperor will rest in Dante's hands, and he aims to fulfil this final duty.

Emphasis added. Cited from Blood Angels Codex, 5th Ed. page 53.

It implies that if Dante didn't have an Apocalypse to look forward to, he would succumb to ennui, which is -

An online Dictionary wrote:A feeling of utter weariness and discontent resulting from satiety or lack of interest; boredom: The endless lecture produced an unbearable ennui.

So the greatest danger/next frontier facing Dante is ... boredom? Does boredom kill Space Marines? Would they simply get tired of all the fighting one day and give up the will to live? I'm not sure what to make of this.
Thoughts?

It's not certain, even to themselves, but a few scattered references indicate that Space Marines might be biologically immortal. That is to say, they'll never die of old age... but no Space Marine is ever afforded the opportunity to find out.

In Horus Rising, it's theorized that the Space Marines may be immortal like the Emperor and Primarchs due to the Emperors genetic material that's in each Primarch and therefore the gene-seed of the legions. It also mentions that they'll probably never know due to the fact that the Astartes are always in battle.

AtariAssasin wrote:In one of the Salamander's novels they find Space Marine Sargent thats been hidden underground so long that his armor has rusted around him and he cant move. My understanding is that they can live for ridiculously long times if they are maintained, but even if not they wont usually just die. So a lifespan of a few thousands years sounds about right to me.

I just read that novel a month ago and yes, they do find an ancient Salamander space marine that had been sitting in one place since Vulkan was last there (which would be thousands of years ago from M41). He does die but that is due to complications from his muscles becoming atrophied (sitting in one place for a millenia or two will do that to anyone) and because he could let himself die since his duty was complete (he was to sit watch until found by the remaining Salamanders chapter)

That being said, for someone who hasn't read that book, this bit sounds somewhat dumb considering there'd be no reason to incorporate a body waste recycler into their armour if they'd just function independently for thousands of years anyways. Even assuming they'd only have to eat to be fit for fighting (which is still biological BS - one's metabolism doesn't just "pause" but rather starts to consume the own body after a while), this makes it sound as if they wouldn't have a need for waste reclamation unless we assume they don't return to base for a simple meal for many decades.

The usual occasional novel shenanigans, I reckon...

Given how fluff consistency works in 40k, I'd simply say "Space Marines get as old as you want them to get".

(although judging purely from a narrative perspective, I gotta say it is quite cool - reminds me a little of that ancient Templar in Indy 3)

Ulfric the Slayer is older then Logan Grimnar, and with exception of the dreadnaughts oldest in the chapter. It doesnt give an age just a couple references.

JonST wrote:Ulfric the Slayer is older then Logan Grimnar, and with exception of the dreadnaughts oldest in the chapter. It doesnt give an age just a couple references.

That's debatable...
He was a member of the Wolf Guard when Grimnar was leading the defense on Armageddon but it also says he recruited and trained Grimnar as a Wolf Priest.
Clearly both are impossible so one or the other is correct.

Lynata wrote:That being said, for someone who hasn't read that book, this bit sounds somewhat dumb considering there'd be no reason to incorporate a body waste recycler into their armour if they'd just function independently for thousands of years anyways. Even assuming they'd only have to eat to be fit for fighting (which is still biological BS - one's metabolism doesn't just "pause" but rather starts to consume the own body after a while), this makes it sound as if they wouldn't have a need for waste reclamation unless we assume they don't return to base for a simple meal for many decades.

The usual occasional novel shenanigans, I reckon...

Given how fluff consistency works in 40k, I'd simply say "Space Marines get as old as you want them to get".

Actually, you would in fact need a waste recycler of some sort in order to stay out independently for any length of time. Whether it's part of the armor or an organic part of the body doesn't matter so much, but if he wasn't expending energy by moving around and had a highly efficient recycler, he could be there for a very, very long time; we know that Space Marines can put themselves into suspended animation of some kind, and that they have a high degree of control over their own metabolism, so given all that, it could work. A Space Marine that was actively moving around and fighting would be burning a lot more energy, of course, but then he'd be eating regularly as well.

And maybe he had a servitor that came around and stuffed him full of granola bars every decade to replace the loss. Or something.

No space marine has died of old age. They do age though, eventually they become infirm enough that they are no longer combat worthy.

Different chapters/legions vary, for example, Blood Angels retain their vitality much longer (eg Dante). Space Wolves age faster in appearance, as another example.

As for the Heresy era marines being thought of as immortal, the oldest marine at the time was just over 200. They didn't know anything about it and were just guessing.

Common knowledge is that they are immortal. But since no Space Marine have lived longer then 1,300 years ( Dante ) there is no way to say that this is true.

BeRzErKeR wrote:Actually, you would in fact need a waste recycler of some sort in order to stay out independently for any length of time. Whether it's part of the armor or an organic part of the body doesn't matter so much, but if he wasn't expending energy by moving around and had a highly efficient recycler, he could be there for a very, very long time; we know that Space Marines can put themselves into suspended animation of some kind, and that they have a high degree of control over their own metabolism, so given all that, it could work. A Space Marine that was actively moving around and fighting would be burning a lot more energy, of course, but then he'd be eating regularly as well.
And maybe he had a servitor that came around and stuffed him full of granola bars every decade to replace the loss. Or something.

See, with the suspended animation I could see it work for a few months maybe. Years are stretching it. Several millennia? Ehh ... I'll just file this in the same locker as Draigo.

Even if we would assume that it'd be possible in the context of that novel, we'd simply end up with "licensed source conflicting licensed source", for the Deathwatch RPG actually does explain how long a Space Marine could survive just on his armour alone. And it's not that long.

But if it works for you, by all means, go for it. I'm just saying it sounds a bit weird.

Props for the servitor idea, though.

DarknessEternal wrote:No space marine has died of old age. They do age though, eventually they become infirm enough that they are no longer combat worthy.

Different chapters/legions vary, for example, Blood Angels retain their vitality much longer (eg Dante). Space Wolves age faster in appearance, as another example.

As for the Heresy era marines being thought of as immortal, the oldest marine at the time was just over 200. They didn't know anything about it and were just guessing.

Oddly enough SW gene-seed has an even weirder effect on the appearance of aging.
There are some that look ancient and are barely 100 years old whereas some who are reaching 300-400 look far younger.

purplefood wrote:

JonST wrote:Ulfric the Slayer is older then Logan Grimnar, and with exception of the dreadnaughts oldest in the chapter. It doesnt give an age just a couple references.

That's debatable...
He was a member of the Wolf Guard when Grimnar was leading the defense on Armageddon but it also says he recruited and trained Grimnar as a Wolf Priest.
Clearly both are impossible so one or the other is correct.

It says in the codex under Ulfric "Ulfric is even older than Logan Grimnar, who has fought in the name of the emperor for 700 years" So its not really all that debatable.

Lynata wrote:See, with the suspended animation I could see it work for a few months maybe. Years are stretching it. Several millennia? Ehh ... I'll just file this in the same locker as Draigo.

Just want to point out that the main use for a Space Marine's suspended animation is so he can survive being adrift in space. He can lock his power armour down, activate his beacon and just sleep tight until someone gets close enough to pick him up. Space is a big place. He's going to wait a long time, years certainly, before anyone gets close enough to pick him up again. I'd say he'd be in trouble after a few centuries of inactivity, he'd fall to deep into the self-induced coma or his muscles would be atrophied from negligence or something.

GoldenKaos wrote:One more clarification - Dreadnoughts are asleep half the time and do not count, plus they do not use their bodies anymore so their bodies do not deteriorate as such. Same goes for Space Marines that go into that hibernation/stasis sleep.

purplefood wrote:Dante is 2000 years old IIRC

He's been Chapter Master for 1,100 years, and one wikia places him at 1,300 but then goes on to say that his actual age is unknown and has helpful phrases like 'believed to be much older' which is great when you're trying to get a definite answer to a question. 2,000 may be a little over, but perhaps not by much.

One other interesting thing about Dante comes by Lexicanum:

Lexicanum.com wrote:Yet for all of his success, or perhaps because of it, Dante has grown weary of his burdens. He has lived far longer than he should, and the burden of centuries grows even weightier. Only one thing prevents Dante succumbing to ennui. Recorded in the Scrolls of Sanguinius are the Primarch's visions of a great battle to overshadow all others, where one golden warrior will stand between his Emperor and the darkness. For many generations of the Blood Angels, these prophecies have been read as Sanguinius' foreknowledge of his own fate, yet through some instinct, perhaps a lingering trace of his Primarch's fabled far-seeing eye, Dante believes otherwise. One day, perhaps one day soon, the defence of the Emperor will rest in Dante's hands, and he aims to fulfil this final duty.

Emphasis added. Cited from Blood Angels Codex, 5th Ed. page 53.

It implies that if Dante didn't have an Apocalypse to look forward to, he would succumb to ennui, which is -

An online Dictionary wrote:A feeling of utter weariness and discontent resulting from satiety or lack of interest; boredom: The endless lecture produced an unbearable ennui.

So the greatest danger/next frontier facing Dante is ... boredom? Does boredom kill Space Marines? Would they simply get tired of all the fighting one day and give up the will to live? I'm not sure what to make of this.
Thoughts?

so Dante's last duty will be to stop a grey knight Supreme Grand Master from using the small wooden box? THAT would be an interesting showdown.

but which would he obey? the fortelling of his Primarch, (albeit interpreted in his own way) or the hand written command of the emporer in a small wooden box guarded for a millenia?

While this is getting a little OT, all we know of the Terminus Decree (I'm guessing that is what you are referring to Rimmy) is that the GK Supreme Grand Master basically has a key that only fits into the Golden Throne somehow. For all we know the use of the Terminus Decree could line up with the prophecy Dante is trying to fulfill.

That is unless you have additional information on the Terminus Decree and if you do please share, I would like to learn more about it.

from what I understand its a plan that requires killing the emporer and shutting down the golden throne (closing the webways) and bringing the emporer back as the star child.

this act would bring on utter destruction for a short time until the emporer can regain strength, and would require actually killing him and sending his spirit to the warp to be reborn.

This is simultaneously an act of heresy as it is compliance. which is likely why it was left to the grey knights.

back on topic though, there is always Kaldor Draigo, who technically exists outside of time, but is thousands of years old as a result.

Rimmy wrote:from what I understand its a plan that requires killing the emporer and shutting down the golden throne (closing the webways) and bringing the emporer back as the star child.

this act would bring on utter destruction for a short time until the emporer can regain strength, and would require actually killing him and sending his spirit to the warp to be reborn.

This is simultaneously an act of heresy as it is compliance. which is likely why it was left to the grey knights.

back on topic though, there is always Kaldor Draigo, who technically exists outside of time, but is thousands of years old as a result.

Anyone in the Warp is discounted since time flows differently for them...
It's easier to go by a real time calendar...

Well, considering that no one actually knows what the Terminus Decree contains, I suppose that bit of fan-speculation is as good as any other.

I seem to remember a part of Horus Rising where one of the main characters reflects on Space Marines immortality, but the irony of their permanently dangerous occupation means they'll never get the chance to actually live forever.

-Loki- wrote:Space Marines immortality

It is perhaps noticeable that the term "immortal" only ever seems to pop up in licensed material. Indeed, the Space Marines Codex specifically describes them as "mortal" (in the Legion of the Dead fluff blurb, where it is used to differentiate between the legendary Legionnaires and "normal" Space Marines).

Normally I wouldn't be so picky about this, but I've come to have little tolerance to this particular term as a certain licensed RPG keeps using it to showcase how gakky normal humans are.

You are aware immortal only means unable to die from old age, correct?

It has no further implications.