Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just got into the hobby and am getting to know the fluff involved with all the different armies and was curious of something.
Which few Space Marine Chapters would you say is closest to falling into chaos/ are most likely to go that route sooner than the other chapters? And why if you have a reason.


Plenty of people iv asked seem to think space wolves are steadily on the course of going to chaos, honestly I'm just not sure about any.

Ultramarines. They are so perfect that Slaneesh wont have a prob seducing them.

Blood angels. Their rage could be, fairly easily, turned into Khornateness.

Especially those death company things, khorne berserkers anyone?

I wouldnt vote for blood Angels.
They arent Khornate because of their Primarch, and they will never change because of him.

thenoobbomb wrote:I wouldnt vote for blood Angels.
They arent Khornate because of their Primarch, and they will never change because of him.

Yes, but it says some become like mindless, vampire-thingies who are long gone in terms of mind.

TheRobotLol wrote:

thenoobbomb wrote:I wouldnt vote for blood Angels.
They arent Khornate because of their Primarch, and they will never change because of him.

Yes, but it says some become like mindless, vampire-thingies who are long gone in terms of mind.

But when they succumb to the Black Rage they are closer to their Primarch more than ever, they are Sanguinius as far as the Marine is concerned. The Red Thirst is the what would cause concern I think.

On Chapters turning to Chaos, it's tricky. It comes down to situation and circumstance a lot of the time.

Space Wolves, despite their bezerker ways, are as far from falling to Chaos as any Chapter and I don't think you could get loyaler. Not to say some don't turn renegade, the Wolf of Fenris incident springs to mind.

Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Ultramarines are all never going to turn renegade, they are the mainstays of the loyalist astartes and it is just people wishing! In the fluff there is a loyalist chapter who collects daemonic artifacts and weapons and uses them against chaos. For this reason the Inquisition has told all chapters to keep a very close eye on them as they are suspected of turning through corruption. They are the Relictors. It might be that they have moved the story on and they have declared them traitors now however they are still loyal but hiding from the Inquisition and other chapters.

It's rare for entire chapters to turn to chaos. Usually it's invidual marines. Though it's less dangerous now if a chapter of only 1000 turns, than had they been many more. That's the main reason for the Codex Astartes. Corruption will happen, but usually on a lesser scale with individual marines falling to the depredations of the dark gods.

the REQUIEM MALESENT by Saint Kybra notes that during the millenia preceding M37 there was evidence that fifty-seven Space Marine chapters had been destroyed, lost or turned traitor during the Reign of Blood, Plague of Unbelief, Cursed Founding, and other horrific events of the time.

I'm not sure if this is the only source for this sort of thing as I am sure that there is another mention of something along these lines, detailing chapters founded and lost, somewhere else. But I can't for the life of me remember where it was and this might be even what I am thinking about.

Edit:

Actually I found it but not sure what the source is

765M41 — A report to the High Lord of Terra details Space Marine Chapter losses, assessing 13 lost in the warp, 21 irrecoverable battle losses, 9 gene-seed failures, 4 Inquisitorial purges, and 16 lost to other circumstances.

From what I know of them, Blood Ravens might be close to falling as well. The high number of psykers, thirst for knowledge (some of it heretical) and collection of artefacts that they shouldn't have makes them a possible. There is also the fact that they are hinted at having Thousand Sons gene-seed.

But in official fluff the Relictors are the only ones that we know of as being close to falling.

The Relictors have been declared Ecommunicate Traitoris. Whether the have actually sided with Chaos though is to be seen and could be classed like the Soul Drinkers.

monkeypuzzle wrote:Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Ultramarines are all never going to turn renegade, they are the mainstays of the loyalist astartes and it is just people wishing! In the fluff there is a loyalist chapter who collects daemonic artifacts and weapons and uses them against chaos. For this reason the Inquisition has told all chapters to keep a very close eye on them as they are suspected of turning through corruption. They are the Relictors. It might be that they have moved the story on and they have declared them traitors now however they are still loyal but hiding from the Inquisition and other chapters.

Relictor fluff points to them already being declared traitor, but, they have always been shown as loyal to the Emperor and took the upmost percautions before using any chaos item.

I see alot of mention of use of chaos relics, blind murderous rages and the such. How far can/has a chapter gone before declared traitor? Even if their motives are 'for the emperor' there has to be a line.

The Knights of Blood (BA successors) have been declared traitors and I could see them falling to chaos at some point.

Anyone else find it funny that the Knights of Blood are listed as a chapter in the BA codex but there is also a Knights of Blood warband listed in the CSM codex?

CrashCanuck wrote:The Knights of Blood (BA successors) have been declared traitors and I could see them falling to chaos at some point.

Anyone else find it funny that the Knights of Blood are listed as a chapter in the BA codex but there is also a Knights of Blood warband listed in the CSM codex?

That sounds interesting, I know the CSM knights of blood has 'unknown' origins and are followers of khorne (there emblem is a juggernauts head i think) and the Renegade knights of blood suffer from the Black rage or Red thirst or whatever it's called which has lead to their problems. So falling to khorne sounds like something.

I would say the Imperial Fists. Aren't (fluffwise) some of the Iron Warriors genetically tied with the Imperial Fists? If not them definitely the Blood Ravens.

I don't think any of the current Big Name Chapters are likely to fall to Chaos. They would have during the Horus Heresy if they were ever going to.

Space Wolves don't play along with the IoM's religious stuff, but if you read the fluff the Emperor himself wouldn't play along with it either. One of the main points of the game's setting is that the utopia the Emperor was trying to make is essentially falling apart, betraying itself, and on the verge of collapse. Space Wolves have never been described as anything but 100% loyal to the Emperor and their ancient oaths to him.

Insert "loyal like a puppy" jokes here.

Ultramarines are no way likely to either. Current fluff is that they were pinned down around Maccarage and couldn't come to the Siege and basically held down the fort while everyone else licked their wounds and tried to start to rebuild. Their successors however...

Blood Angels are at risk. Their whole theme is torment really. Their Primarch being slain by Horus is what gives them the Red Thirst and Black Rage. Really, Horus seems to have tainted them when he killed their Primarch. They hate Chaos more than anything but they tend to have some Khorne like qualities. Of course, that's the whole point to the Gods of Chaos! They are mankind (and other race's) emotions made manifest. So its more accurate probably to say Khorne reflects the Blood Angels...

Dark Angels had half their Legion turn traitor, hence the Fallen. I'm sure their TERRIBLE SECRET is somehow related to Chaos and the Heresy. I'd say they are more at risk than the Blood Angels but again. Their purpose will hold them against Chaos.

Imperial Fists are never going to go traitor. They held the Siege against terrible odds. Crimson Fists hate Orks more than Chaos but all their successors are stubborn as Dorn and I'd be surprised if any of them have been reported as going traitor officiallly. I mean, Black Templars basically Crusade constantly. Their recruits are those that want to join the Crusade to begin with.

Blood Ravens are at risk. Its entirely possible that their Primarch is Magnus the Red. If not its one of the 2 Unknown Primarchs. They exist in a weird Canon limbo though. I like them, I think they have character, but Dawn of War can all be trumped by GW established facts.

White Scars could I suppose, but its more likely just a single Clan wound. Again though, of the original Legions the ones that would turn Traitor probably already have.


Successor Chapters though... Those of the Ultramarines, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels are probably the most likely to corrupt. Ultramarines are genetically pure. That's it. So the people themselves are what are corruptible. Blood Angels have their Red Thirst/Black Rage flaw that makes it easier to corrupt people and Dark Angels have their TERRIBLE SECRET which again is probably Chaos related.


But its harder now. Chaos is now known to the masses. They wouldn't have been widely known about before the Heresy. Corruption to Chaos is largely done on a personal level. Since the Emperor is venerated as a God its easier for you to convert people to Chaos. Any injustice in the world (and the grimdark future is harsh) and you can blame it on the God who is supposed to be protecting you.

Oddly enough, I think the Ecclesial organizations of the IoM are working more for Chaos and against the Emperor.

Marines Malevolent. They're so off they've already come into conflict with the Salamanders on a few occasions. They're pretty sick.

Khorne's Herald wrote:I would say the Imperial Fists. Aren't (fluffwise) some of the Iron Warriors genetically tied with the Imperial Fists? If not them definitely the Blood Ravens.

What in gods name made you say the Imperial Fist? What that statement means is that some Iron Warriors are using geneseed they recovered from Imperial Fist they had killed.

Salemanders, Imperial Fist, and Ultramarines are the chapters that are the least likely to falll to Chaos but I can think of a few others that are perfectly safe like Iron Hands and Raven Guard. Space Wolves COULD because of Khorne but it is unlikely. Blood Angels is another one at risk because of Khorne manipulation but I dont think they would. At least not volunatary.

Imperial Fists-I don't think these guys could fall to Chaos. They're grateful just to be Space Marines and to serve the Imperium and furthermore, the rest of the Imperium seems pretty cool with 'em. However, they have a disturbing fascination with endurance and the benefits of pain. If they were corrupted, I'd bet it would be by Nurgle.

White Scars-There isn't much info about the White Scars, but they seem quite devoted to the Imperium. Most of the Legions with doubts turned heretic during the Heresy, so only the super loyal guys stayed loyal. However, they're pretty into going fast and crazy, kinda like some Slaanesh followers. Like the Imperial Fists, I doubt that they'd turn traitor.

Dark Angels-Extremely low chance; they absolutely hate Chaos as a result of the Fallen. If they did turn Chaos, they'd be undivided. But they won't.

Space Wolves-Let's see, they disrespect the Imperium, are prone to rampant mutations and are quite secluded. They also have some strange beliefs about the warp the rest of the Imperium doesn't follow. If a main chapter was going to turn to Chaos, I'd be the Space Wolves. They'd probably be promised freedom from the Imperium by Chaos Undivided or more people to kill by Khorne.

Blood Angels-This is a tricky issue. The Red Thirst and Black Rage are most certainly Khorne like, but there's the possibility that this stuff just brings them closer to their loyalist Primarch.

Iron Hands-They worship mechanics and want better and better technology, which could lead them into being seduced by the Dark Mechanicus and the possibility of warp powered machinery. Otherwise, they'd be loyal.

Salamanders-The Salamanders don't have much treacherous material. They're straightforward, loyal and pretty nice guys.

Raven Guard-Well, with a corrupted geneseed and a fierce desire for independence, they're more likely to turn traitor than average. But they probably won't.

Ultramarines-Kind of the like the preheresy Emperor's Children, they're proud, loyal perfectionists. There's a slim chance Slaanesh could seduce them. Otherwise they'll be loyal. So, I think they're probably gonna stay loyal.

Crimson Fists-Considering their reputation as lapdogs of the Inquisition, it's pretty unlike that they'd turn traitor.

Mantis Warriors-They've turned traitor before, so that's always a bad sign. However, they seem pretty damn loyal. They're willing to destroy their own Chapter on insane crusades in the quest for forgiveness. So they probably won't turn traitor.

Marines Malevolent-Angry, arrogant and disrespectful of the Imperium, I'd say they could easily turn traitor. But you never know.

Lamenters-They've turned traitor before and they have an unstable geneseed and were part of the cursed founding and they were lost in the warp for awhile and then they were in the maelstrom for awhile and their current status is unknown, but the Imperium is pretty sure that they're loyal. They've probably already turned traitor, unless of course they died first.

Brazen Claws-Well, they turned traitor before and they're home planet was decimated by Daemons, so them turning to Chaos is possible.

Black Templars-The Black Templars are probably more loyal than the Inquisition. They aren't turning traitor any time soon.

I don't see any of the legion chapters (chapters that are directly descended from the legions) falling to chaos, at least on a large scale. It is possible a few of the marines from those chapters could fall. Even the BA I would say won't turn. The Red Thirst would be a concern but any marine that suffers from the Black Rage is constantly reliving the death of Sanguinius through his eyes, which means they see their own brother (Horus) having fallen to Chaos and being betrayed by him. So as much as the Death Company are rampaging killers I would be certain they hate Chaos as much as anyone can.

LoneLictor wrote:Imperial Fists-I don't think these guys could fall to Chaos. They're grateful just to be Space Marines and to serve the Imperium and furthermore, the rest of the Imperium seems pretty cool with 'em. However, they have a disturbing fascination with endurance and the benefits of pain. If they were corrupted, I'd bet it would be by Nurgle.

White Scars-There isn't much info about the White Scars, but they seem quite devoted to the Imperium. Most of the Legions with doubts turned heretic during the Heresy, so only the super loyal guys stayed loyal. However, they're pretty into going fast and crazy, kinda like some Slaanesh followers. Like the Imperial Fists, I doubt that they'd turn traitor.

Dark Angels-Extremely low chance; they absolutely hate Chaos as a result of the Fallen. If they did turn Chaos, they'd be undivided. But they won't.

Space Wolves-Let's see, they disrespect the Imperium, are prone to rampant mutations and are quite secluded. They also have some strange beliefs about the warp the rest of the Imperium doesn't follow. If a main chapter was going to turn to Chaos, I'd be the Space Wolves. They'd probably be promised freedom from the Imperium by Chaos Undivided or more people to kill by Khorne.

Blood Angels-This is a tricky issue. The Red Thirst and Black Rage are most certainly Khorne like, but there's the possibility that this stuff just brings them closer to their loyalist Primarch.

Iron Hands-They worship mechanics and want better and better technology, which could lead them into being seduced by the Dark Mechanicus and the possibility of warp powered machinery. Otherwise, they'd be loyal.

Salamanders-The Salamanders don't have much treacherous material. They're straightforward, loyal and pretty nice guys.

Raven Guard-Well, with a corrupted geneseed and a fierce desire for independence, they're more likely to turn traitor than average. But they probably won't.

Ultramarines-Kind of the like the preheresy Emperor's Children, they're proud, loyal perfectionists. There's a slim chance Slaanesh could seduce them. Otherwise they'll be loyal. So, I think they're probably gonna stay loyal.

Crimson Fists-Considering their reputation as lapdogs of the Inquisition, it's pretty unlike that they'd turn traitor.

Mantis Warriors-They've turned traitor before, so that's always a bad sign. However, they seem pretty damn loyal. They're willing to destroy their own Chapter on insane crusades in the quest for forgiveness. So they probably won't turn traitor.

Marines Malevolent-Angry, arrogant and disrespectful of the Imperium, I'd say they could easily turn traitor. But you never know.

Lamenters-They've turned traitor before and they have an unstable geneseed and were part of the cursed founding and they were lost in the warp for awhile and then they were in the maelstrom for awhile and their current status is unknown, but the Imperium is pretty sure that they're loyal. They've probably already turned traitor, unless of course they died first.

Brazen Claws-Well, they turned traitor before and they're home planet was decimated by Daemons, so them turning to Chaos is possible.

Black Templars-The Black Templars are probably more loyal than the Inquisition. They aren't turning traitor any time soon.

How does one go traitor then go back? It was my understanding once labeled traitor they were black listed and hunted on sight. At least that's what I was told.

DeathRex wrote:How does one go traitor then go back? It was my understanding once labeled traitor they were black listed and hunted on sight. At least that's what I was told.

It's pretty messed up. Sometimes if traitors surrender and claim that they regret their actions, the Imperium sends 'em on these crusades and if they do well and stay loyal, they get off the traitor list.

Flesh Tearers....

Maybe Dark Angels. According to their fluff...they are the most genetically pure gene-seed to the original founding. They had a lot of their number "fall" during that time. Maybe they are the most genetically pre-disposed to it.

Their fluff is rife with them abandoning battles in order to capture and claim the fallen - losing whole worlds to their single minded thirst for revenge. That seems like something Chaos could take advantage of.....

None of the original Legions has even a remote possability of turning traitor, 1) because GW won't ever do it, 2) following reasons,

The Space Wolves are as loyal as they could possably get.

Imperial Fists are also unswervingly loyal.

Ultramarines. if anything, chaos would turn traitor on itself, because they can never be true Ultramarines.

Blood Angels, the Black Rage and Red Thirst are psychic echos of their Primarch. Won't turn traitor ever.

bubbinski wrote:Maybe Dark Angels. According to their fluff...they are the most genetically pure gene-seed to the original founding. They had a lot of their number "fall" during that time. Maybe they are the most genetically pre-disposed to it.

Their fluff is rife with them abandoning battles in order to capture and claim the fallen - losing whole worlds to their single minded thirst for revenge. That seems like something Chaos could take advantage of.....

It's not so much revenge, more like "oh crap, hide the shame! hide the shame!". If half your legion turned traitor during the heresy, I'm pretty sure you'd want to keep that quiet. Have you read any of the Dark Angel novels? Explains it quite well in some cases (not the HH ones, the other ones)

It would be an incredible way of advancing fluff if dante/calnar/tu'shan/pugh etc. went chaosy, can't see it happening though

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:It would be an incredible way of advancing fluff if dante/calnar/tu'shan/pugh etc. went chaosy, can't see it happening though

If one of the nine original loyalist chapters/legions turned to Chaos and the Alpha Legion came back to the Imperium (we all know they're closet loyalists, come on) that would be a fantastic way to advance the fluff.

The IF wouldn't turn and the BT are by far the least likely to fall hand in hand with GK