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What would be the impact of such legions falling to chaos? Would the reaction/backlash of... Let's say ultramarines compared to black Templar or imperial fists be the same? Which chapter would leave the biggest scar/impact by defecting?

Someone told me it's all the same but given some of the fluff I'm not convinced.

Btw I'm not sure if I specified but when I asked about chapters I meant all sub chapters. So it's not just the BIG named legions. My curiosity stretches to all space marines and their wavering faith

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Flesh Tearers....

Traitors, maybe their actions might cause them to be declared traitors, but not fall into chaos.

Ultrafool wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Flesh Tearers....

Traitors, maybe their actions might cause them to be declared traitors, but not fall into chaos.

I'm not sure... I still have the feeling they could fall unknowingly.... but then again, the black rage and the red thirst are usually visions of sanguinius... not really chaosy...

LoneLictor wrote:

DeathRex wrote:How does one go traitor then go back? It was my understanding once labeled traitor they were black listed and hunted on sight. At least that's what I was told.

It's pretty messed up. Sometimes if traitors surrender and claim that they regret their actions, the Imperium sends 'em on these crusades and if they do well and stay loyal, they get off the traitor list.

The Lamenters, Mantis Warriors, and Executioners never fell to Chaos. Never forswore the Emperor or turned to the worship of the Ruinous Powers. They were on the wrong side of a civil war between Loyalist chapters, and so they weren't declared traitors.

Instead, they've been sent on a crusade for something like a hundred years, without access to a home world or any sort of base of operations. If they're wiped out in the process, fine, problem solved. If they aren't, they can start over somewhere with what's left of the chapter and try to recuperate.

Grey Templar wrote:Ultramarines. if anything, chaos would turn traitor on itself, because they can never be true Ultramarines.

As much as I hate to encourage Mat Wardisms, I chuckled.

I'm kinda surprised nobody has mentioned the Minotaurs.

Blood raves defnintly because they have a lot of psikers

cowmonaut wrote:I don't think any of the current Big Name Chapters are likely to fall to Chaos. They would have during the Horus Heresy if they were ever going to.

This.

A bunch of Space Wolves have already joined the Red Corsairs, from the CSM codex.

The wolf brothers all turned traitors (those that weren't killed in the warp first) I remeber in the battle of the Fang, the SW's first company faought three or four companies of possesed and corrupted wolf brothers. and a whole bunch of SW's joined the corsairs, so I would say SW are the most likely to fall to chaos, if you remove wyrd priests from their number. Also which dabab succesionist chapter was allowed to leave the war peacefully just after it begun? Also Lamenters were never branded heretics, just succesionists.

The Black Templars. They'll suffer the same fate as the Word Bearers and turn their zealous worship to the gods (maybe the =][= will yell at them or something, which'll be the spark)

DxM Scotty MxD wrote:The wolf brothers all turned traitors (those that weren't killed in the warp first) I remeber in the battle of the Fang, the SW's first company faought three or four companies of possesed and corrupted wolf brothers. and a whole bunch of SW's joined the corsairs, so I would say SW are the most likely to fall to chaos, if you remove wyrd priests from their number. Also which dabab succesionist chapter was allowed to leave the war peacefully just fater it begun? Also Lamenters were never branded heretics, just succesionists.

The Executioners were found to be perfectly loyal to the Imperium and merely fighting with the Seccessionists due to a debt of honour AFAIK.
The Wolf Brothers were purged for genetic instability. Some of them probably escaped. Various companies of the SW have gone rogue/traitor.
Most of these have been wiped out. The SW do not like traitors...
The chapter as a whole is unlikely to be the first to fall to Chaos. They spend most of their time fighting Chaos...
Incidentally the SW don't have a first company.

purplefood wrote:

DxM Scotty MxD wrote:The wolf brothers all turned traitors (those that weren't killed in the warp first) I remeber in the battle of the Fang, the SW's first company faought three or four companies of possesed and corrupted wolf brothers. and a whole bunch of SW's joined the corsairs, so I would say SW are the most likely to fall to chaos, if you remove wyrd priests from their number. Also which dabab succesionist chapter was allowed to leave the war peacefully just fater it begun? Also Lamenters were never branded heretics, just succesionists.

The Executioners were found to be perfectly loyal to the Imperium and merely fighting with the Seccessionists due to a debt of honour AFAIK.
The Wolf Brothers were purged for genetic instability. Some of them probably escaped. Various companies of the SW have gone rogue/traitor.
Most of these have been wiped out. The SW do not like traitors...
The chapter as a whole is unlikely to be the first to fall to Chaos. They spend most of their time fighting Chaos...
Incidentally the SW don't have a first company.

First company = chapter masters company, though I am sure they don't call them by number they probably name them like "great company of the fanged jaw" or some naming convention like that. I called it first compnay for simplicity sake as I don't have the book on me ATM. lamenters were loyal to the imperium as well as the manta's they just agreed that to properly protect the imperium from the horrors contained within the maelstrom they couldn't have their hands tied by some inquisitor who's out to make a name for himself. It was lufgt or lugft (can't remeber how it's spelt) who decided that the maelstrom defence force was outside of the imperium. The rest followed him to either continue their duty or out of debts owed to the astral claws. I still think the whole dabab incident is probably one of the most saddening things to have happened in 40K.

DxM Scotty MxD wrote:

purplefood wrote:

DxM Scotty MxD wrote:The wolf brothers all turned traitors (those that weren't killed in the warp first) I remeber in the battle of the Fang, the SW's first company faought three or four companies of possesed and corrupted wolf brothers. and a whole bunch of SW's joined the corsairs, so I would say SW are the most likely to fall to chaos, if you remove wyrd priests from their number. Also which dabab succesionist chapter was allowed to leave the war peacefully just fater it begun? Also Lamenters were never branded heretics, just succesionists.

The Executioners were found to be perfectly loyal to the Imperium and merely fighting with the Seccessionists due to a debt of honour AFAIK.
The Wolf Brothers were purged for genetic instability. Some of them probably escaped. Various companies of the SW have gone rogue/traitor.
Most of these have been wiped out. The SW do not like traitors...
The chapter as a whole is unlikely to be the first to fall to Chaos. They spend most of their time fighting Chaos...
Incidentally the SW don't have a first company.

First company = chapter masters company, though I am sure they don't call them by number they probably name them like "great company of the fanged jaw" or some naming convention like that. I called it first compnay for simplicity sake as I don't have the book on me ATM. lamenters were loyal to the imperium as well as the manta's they just agreed that to properly protect the imperium from the horrors contained within the maelstrom they couldn't have their hands tied by some inquisitor who's out to make a name for himself. It was lufgt or lugft (can't remeber how it's spelt) who decided that the maelstrom defence force was outside of the imperium. The rest followed him to either continue their duty or out of debts owed to the astral claws. I still think the whole dabab incident is probably one of the most saddening things to have happened in 40K.

The saddest thing is probably the fall of the Thousand Sons...

purplefood wrote:

DxM Scotty MxD wrote:

purplefood wrote:

DxM Scotty MxD wrote:The wolf brothers all turned traitors (those that weren't killed in the warp first) I remeber in the battle of the Fang, the SW's first company faought three or four companies of possesed and corrupted wolf brothers. and a whole bunch of SW's joined the corsairs, so I would say SW are the most likely to fall to chaos, if you remove wyrd priests from their number. Also which dabab succesionist chapter was allowed to leave the war peacefully just fater it begun? Also Lamenters were never branded heretics, just succesionists.

The Executioners were found to be perfectly loyal to the Imperium and merely fighting with the Seccessionists due to a debt of honour AFAIK.
The Wolf Brothers were purged for genetic instability. Some of them probably escaped. Various companies of the SW have gone rogue/traitor.
Most of these have been wiped out. The SW do not like traitors...
The chapter as a whole is unlikely to be the first to fall to Chaos. They spend most of their time fighting Chaos...
Incidentally the SW don't have a first company.

First company = chapter masters company, though I am sure they don't call them by number they probably name them like "great company of the fanged jaw" or some naming convention like that. I called it first compnay for simplicity sake as I don't have the book on me ATM. lamenters were loyal to the imperium as well as the manta's they just agreed that to properly protect the imperium from the horrors contained within the maelstrom they couldn't have their hands tied by some inquisitor who's out to make a name for himself. It was lufgt or lugft (can't remeber how it's spelt) who decided that the maelstrom defence force was outside of the imperium. The rest followed him to either continue their duty or out of debts owed to the astral claws. I still think the whole dabab incident is probably one of the most saddening things to have happened in 40K.

The saddest thing is probably the fall of the Thousand Sons...

The truth ^

Samus_aran115 wrote:The Black Templars. They'll suffer the same fate as the Word Bearers and turn their zealous worship to the gods (maybe the =][= will yell at them or something, which'll be the spark)

Closest thing I've read on this thread to a main chapter turning traitor. (yes I realize the Black Templars are not a Legion but they are still a primary chapter to GW)

All these arguements of the Loyal Legions turning traitor is pretty much just not going to happen.

Here is the Blood Angels Black Rage highly sophisticated mathmatical proof regarding a turn for them.

Black Rage makes marines believe they are Sanguinius---> Sanguinius was not a traitor and died fighting the Vidkun Quisling of the Heresy---> Therefore marines suffering from the Black Rage will not turn to khorne

Makes sense to me.

Exdeath wrote:A bunch of Space Wolves have already joined the Red Corsairs, from the CSM codex.

At one point or another in the fluff, lots of marines from various Chapters (including Ultramarines though that's probably been retconned) have gone traitor. A few Marines or even a Company of Marines going Traitor is not the same thing as the whole Chapter.

In all honesty, I'd say the freedom of being a Wolf Lord and the way the Space Wolves are structured make it "easier" for a large number to leave the Chapter. That is one of the reasons for the structure of the Codex Astrates after all.

But that is still a far cry from saying the Space Wolves will fall.

DeathRex wrote:What would be the impact of such legions falling to chaos? Would the reaction/backlash of... Let's say ultramarines compared to black Templar or imperial fists be the same? Which chapter would leave the biggest scar/impact by defecting?

Someone told me it's all the same but given some of the fluff I'm not convinced.

Btw I'm not sure if I specified but when I asked about chapters I meant all sub chapters. So it's not just the BIG named legions. My curiosity stretches to all space marines and their wavering faith

Depends on who leaves and where in the Galaxy. For example the Ultramarines have a large territory in the Galactic East. The Space Wolves defend a large area in the Galactic West and most notably are the closest SM Chapter to the Eye of Terror (if I recall correctly) and generally come to Cadia's aid often. If a Templar Crusade fell, who knows where it is or how large? They rove around so if they fell they'd turn into a bunch of raiders most likely and cause problems wherever they go.

Other Chapters don't have much of an actual presence. They are 1000 strong only and mostly don't have lots of Terminators/Dreadnoughts or even Battle Barges, and they don't normally hold more than a world or so and just police areas. The entire point to the Codex Astrates was to limit the damage they could cause by falling to Chaos, so unless you had some massive event where multiple or Second Founding Chapters fell to Chaos, the impact won't be very large.

No Legion Chapter (the big 9) will EVER fall to Chaos.

Period.

Individual members, or small groups of members, may fall to Chaos, but not the whole Chapter. Can't happen. Won't happen.

Successor Chapters, on the other hand, are more likely to fall. But be sure we make a distinction between falling to Chaos and turning traitor. SMs have full knowledge of the Horus Heresy (well, more than anybody else in the IoM, bar the Inquisition). They KNOW Chaos seduced the primarchs, they KNOW what Chaos transformed their former brothers into, and they KNOW the only fate for a Chaos chapter is a life in the warp being mutated, or Exterminatus. Chaos most easily corrupts those who don't know of its existence, or the full scope of its power and influence. The SM are not that ingorant. So the only ones who would be likely to fall (as a whole chapter) would be the ones who demonstrate a cavalier attitude toward Chaos. The Relictors, who gather and use Chaos artifacts are a strong contender for Chaos-based treason. They've already been declared traitor, but that doesn't automatically make them Chaos. However, now that they are traitors, they may find themselves relying more and more heavily on the same Chaos artefacts that got them into this mess in the first place...

The Soul Drinkers already turned to Chaos, if I'm not mistaken. If they haven't, they are also a prime candidate.

The Flesh Tearers and Marines Malevolent are more likely to turn traitor, rather than turn Chaos. The Flesh Tearers are straight-up psycho, due to geneseed mutation. They will likely be purged by the Inquisition long before they formally turn traitor. I don't see Chaos in their future. Ditto the Marines Malevolent. Their actions and attitudes will get the Big =][= on their case, and they will be purged. Chaos won't enter into the equation.

A. Flesh Tearers will die off in 200 years so Chapter master Seth will sacrifice the chapter in suicide missions to redeem their name

B. Lemartes will prevent the death company from falling to chaos since he is the scariest Chaplin to ever live

C. If we weren't labeled as traitors for allying with the Necrons and Ulthwe' then the inquisition has really been lazy or their scared of Dante