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Hi, I'm starting a new army list after trying some 1000-1500 pts lists. I've been playing since December, so I'm kind of a newbie to the game. Also I'm spanish, and I'm not very familiar to the arconyms in english (no problem for the names, I can google them).
The first step on the new list is the HQ: Vulkan He'stan. I chose him due to the special rule about Thunderhammers, melta and flamers.
Then, I'm starting to build a Tactical squad with the idea of destroying vehicles mainly, but with a little support agains troops. This is the idea:

(255) 9 man tac , MM, Melta gun
1 sgt, Combi-flamer, pwr fist
1 rhino dual storm

I'm not sure about the Combi-flamer on the seargent because I don't know if it's worth it. But If all the squad has melta weapons, I feel necessary to have some anti-troop on it.
The Rhino has extra armour glued on it, so it's there on the reality, but not in the list (I don't know if it's "legal"). Also I'm not sure if it's worth it to put it on the list (the extra armour, I mean).

What do you think about it? The configuration of another Tactical squad (with the idea of destroying troops) depends on the modifications done on this squad.

I would keep the tactical squad as a pure anti-tank unit. I am assuming that there is more in the army than this.

Hi,

drop power fist and combi-flamer and rhino upgrades, keep Tac squad low in points, MM and meltagun are good load for them as antitank unit, tac marines arent rush units, they are good for holding objectives, if you want some antitank shock units use speeders or attack bikes with MM. In 1600pts army minimum of 2 full tac squads is recommended, so you can equip 2nd tac as anti infantry if you want, best load is flamer and ML, both weapons are free and put them against into rhino or in objective scenario you can use razorback for more fire support and combat squad them(sergeant with flamer in razorback), squad with ML as long support.

The main idea is to build a list around Vulkan, that's why the first tac is build like this.
I've been playing since december (until then I only painted and played some fantasy), and most of my lists where with this structure:
HQ (Chaplain)
2 tac (flamer, ML both. sgt with bolt pistol and chainsword) + rhino
1 sniper scout (1 ML)
1 predator (autocannon, HB)
and then varying betwen dreadnought in a drop pod, assault marines, assault or normal terminators...

For the moment I think I'll keep this squad as tank buster, I've never tried before.
The idea of the second squad is more anti-troops, with the classic ML and flamer, but I doubt on the sgt.

Troops:
(240) 9 man tac , ML, Flamer
1 sgt, Combi-melta, pwr weapon
1 rhino dual storm

Are you going to play full Sallamander theme marines?
If so, welcome to the Forge.

The first squads idea is solid. You are running 2 melta's in the squad. You can either combat squad it, and have the MM dropped onto an objective and have the melta gun running around popping stuff everywhere. I agree with BaneGuard. You are taking Vulkan to get the twin-linked rule, so you might as well use it with a melta gun. 2 Meltas on one little squad is handy and annoying for the opponent.

Nop, Ultramarines xD I only use Vulkan for the bonus I like th lore of the ultramarines, and I'm a bit of a fanboy.

Run with captain on a bike and take bikes as troops - 2 meltas and attack bike with multi-melta really benefit from Vulkan.

Vulkan. Run him with some TH/SS termies in a landraider for a hybrid list.

If you have vulcan, it seems a waste if you don't have a unit to go with him because the rhino can't have 11 guys in it, so he's stuck at a distance from the enemy. I would put in a unti of terminators, or sternguard in a drop pod.

Yes BaneGuard, that's the idea. But for the moment I'm configuring the troop part.

So, for the moment I have the HQ and two tacs:

HQ:
Vulkan He'stan

Troops:
9man tac, MM, Melta gun
1 sgt combi-flamer, pwr fist
1 rhino extra armour, dualstorm

9man tac, ML, Flamer
1 sgt combi-melta, pwr weapon
1 rhino, dualstorm

I'm thinking of a sniper scout 10man, with ML, to give support agains troops from the distance. Worth it? Is it worth to add Thelion with them? And that would be all on the troop part.

Personally, I'm not a fan of scouts, but I think that 2 tactical squads in rhino are good choice.
Personally, I am not a fan of scout snipers, but that's probably just because of my bad luck.
In that size of army, I would take telion with the scouts and the missile launcher will do awesome with him in the squad.

If you are going to go for a Vulkan army with Ultramarines, I suggest the Third company.

Their Captain is Master of the Armoury, and the type of Wargear that Vulkan totes around fits him, in my opinion!

Crazyterran, I don't see the point about the third company thing. Is there some special rule for "master of the armoury"? Or it's only for the painting?

I think he meant the 3rd company more so for lore sake. The 3rd company having the master of the arsenal probably means there more likely to provide the specialist equipment that could be the equivalent of the rules vulkan gives.

OMG ok. A bit late, I've already painted them like the 2nd company, but thanks.
About the scouts, I've been using the snipers without Telion for the moment, I was not shure if the cost was worth it. In addition, I don't have to waste points in camo cloack if I use Telion, true?

I think you still have to pay for the camo cloaks for the scouts to have stealth, otherwise he is the only guy with stealth, not 100% sure

no, im pretty sure Telion grants the stealth ability to the squad he joins. Meaning you dont have to get camo cloaks for them

Found it, on the rulebook FAQs, page 7:
"Q: If only some of the models in a unit have the Stealth
special rule, does the whole unit benefit from the +1
cover save? (p76)
A: Yes. In effect the ones with the Stealth special rule
ensure their colleagues also find good places to hide."
Free camo cloak Telion and his snipers (and ML) stay on the list. Normally I've allways placed them inside a building, in diferent levels, with good results. I'm not shure if moving them is a better curse of action (unless it's for conquering a near objective on the last game turn), neither deploying them in a vehicle. Opinions?

And after that comes the support for Vulkan. The last game I played, I used a normal Land Raider with 6 assault terminators inside (3 LC, 3 TH), and my opponent nearly cried. I see this a good combination for an escort for Vulkan. The doubt here is the number of termi, the proportion of LC and TH (the sgt wore a TH) and wich kind of Land Raider may I use. Opinions? again.

The best LR option for Vulkan is LRR w/MM load with assault termies with TH/SS, you can use all chapter tactics from vulkan in this 1 rockstar unit.
If you want use scouts with Telion, 1 squad with ML IMHO is enough.

None of the LRs benifit from Vulkans ability. The flamestorm cannons dont count as twin linked. So, it comes down to personal preferance. I have a Crusader, but in hind sight, i would rather have a normal one. The two lascannons can be helpful for long ranged anti tank (If your struggling in that area - usually vulkan lists do). But the Crusader and Redeemer both have TL Assault Cannons. They are really, really good to use on the move. You have the 12" move and thanks to POTMS you can shoot 1 weapon (chosing the S6, rending weapon is a good idea).

Something else to note, they can all have a MM on the top (which obviously benifits from vulkans ability).

I've compared the three Land Raider options, and yes, the best suited is the LRR with the MM. Is it worth to also equip it with a SB? What about extra armour?
And concerning the termi squad, I can only put inside 5 man and Vulkan (due to transport capacity limitations). Of those five, how many with TH/SS and LC is the most balanced option?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well then, I think the unit will finally be like this:

4 man assault termi 1 TH/SS, 3 LC
1 sgt TH/SS
LRR, MM, SB, Extra armour
And with them, Vulkan.

Well, the easy part is done. Now comes the problem, I have 225 points left, and many combinations. Wich could be more suitable for an army based on Vulkan? I thought about a predator/Whirlwind, Assault SM, Dreadnought,... Any ideas?

Have a drop podding dreadnought in a drop pod with 2 heavy flamers. It will ruin anyone's day on the first turn.
A squad of sternguard in a razorback would also work.

You have the Terminators wrong (well, wrong in a vulkan list). 2 with TH/SS is not enough, your paying 190 for vulkan, and not even maximising his ability your most expensive squad. Yes, 3 LC will rip the crap out of people, but again, your paying for vulkan for nothing then. Also, when it comes to shooting, they will not have an Invuln save. But, if you decide to allocate wounds to TH/SS marines and fail, then you got a terminator squad without with just LC, so they will be even easier to kill next shooting phase.
If your absolutely adamant about having a LC in the squad, i'd say 1 at most.

Hummm good point. Even if I use 3 TH/SS and 2 LC I'm still not using all the power of the rule. Maybe I should drop all the LC and have a full TH/SS squad. That way, the unit would be a tank itself

I've been thinking of finishing the list with some sternguard in a razorback, as BaneGuard said, or sternguard with JP. I've NEVER used them, so I don't know what weapons would suit them better nor how to use them.

In terms of Sternguards and Vanguards, take sternguards all the time.

NEVER change their bolter to anything, only combi weapons (flamers / meltas in a vulkan list). That way, they benifit from Vulkan's ability AND can still use their specialised ammo.
I would advise a Rhino for them. Paying 125 points (before upgrades) for an awesome shooty squad, putting them in a RB with no firing ports is a silly idea. Besides, a Rhino can repair itselft with a roll of 6+ in the movement phase. Its unlikely to work (1 in 6 chance) but hey, its still a posibility. I have also used them in a Drop Pod with combi meltas, ruined the Imperial Guards day when i wrecked a squadron of vehicles. They survived a few turns and died on turn 5 IIRC - Absolutely wrecked a vet squad with their hellfire ammo. But, Drop Pods are risky on their own. I still prefer a rhino

The Vanguard Vets with JPs can be alot of fun. DS in and charge, killing a unit in their first turn of play can be alot of fun. BUT the cost gets ridiculious. 125 for 5 men, +10 for each jump pack, + weapons. They squad i have equates to around 260 points. Not to mention, putting other characters with jump packs in the squad stops them from charging after DS. The only im i used them, i wiped a squad of Dark Reapers. Then my enemy realised they were an absolute killing machine, and focus fired them down. That was 260 points shot to pieces by Eldar in a turn of shooting, for what they do, not really worth it.

Hope this helps

Vulkan needs spamming meltas and flmers(with a few hammers) to abuse his power/make his points up.

Tactical squads as meltagun,combimelta, ML/MM, fist, rhino is a good combo for this, as it is a nice antitank unit that can take pressure off units behind like land raiders. This seems to be what you wanted to do anyway.

Scouts are not as they have no meltas and flamers, you have better, more important units to buy.

Now this leaves the cool melta,flamer, hammer units, you pick a combo that works together:
Dreads with MM/HF with or without drop pods[maybe drop pods would be good for the tactical squads in this case];
Sternguard with combimeltas,combiflamers, meltaguns, heavy flamers. So 8 combimeltas+2heavy flamers in a drop pod works well, it lands combat squads and is flexible. Else i like 2 heavyflamers and 4 combimeltas in a rhino, this gives an antiinfantry rhino which can do antitank role.
Speeders with 2MM, 2HF or the classic MM/HF all do well and all are suicidal;
Attack bikes with MM;
5 ss/th assault termies in a raider with MM and EA.

Just make sure units work together and have melta,flamers.
With a slight caveat that you should have some ranged antitank. Basically having 2 predators to shoot the stormravens down in the first turn as your meltas/flamers are not in range is pretty important. Actually in this case it is meltas and even then the melta bit does not work.

+1 to MFletch. Hit the nail on the head there

Well, after reading everything I think the final list will be this one:

Vulkan He'stan

9man tac MM, meltagun
1sgt combi-flamer, pwr fist
rhino SB, extra armour

9man tac ML, Flamer
1sgt combi-melta, pwr weapon
rhino SB

9man scout, ML, Sniper rifle
Sgt Telion

4man CC termi 4TH/SS
1sgt TH/SS
LRR MM, SB

and

4man sternguard 2 combi-fusion, 2 combi-melta
1sgt pwr fist, pwr weapon
rhino SB

- or -

Dreadnought HF, MM, CC Weapon
Drop pod

Predator autocannon, side lascannons, SB

Not sure for the moment of the last part of the list, but I think I'll try one list and another. Opinions?

Your going too expensive on inappropriate things. Troops. Yes they are the back bone of your army, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Either Combi Melta, or PF. TOO expensive for both. Melta gun + melta is a waste of points. If something is 12" away (close enough to use your melta gun) you might as well use your MM and get 2d6 for the armour pen roll. Drop the Melta gun, save 5 points and take a flamer (which are free and still benifit from vulkan). Rhinos are stupidly well kitted out. Drop the Stormbolter. Your either going to be moving up, or a smouldering wreck, in both cases you cant shoot. The Extra armour is debatable, my experiance is that transport always gets blown up, so i wouldn't bother.

Drop the storm bolter from the LRR. POTMS allows you to shoot 1 weapon regardless, you'd be silly to use the stormbolter. Keep the MM, LRR cant really deal with tanks so the MM would make sense.

Following the trend of your current list, Sternguard in a rhino would be best. Powerfist on the sergeant, with combi-meltas and -flamers. Again, drop the Storm bolter from the rhino, unneseccary point sink. NOT the dreadnough, because you'd leave him in enemy ranks on the first turn to be blown to shreads.

Drop the Stormbolter from the pred too. All those strong weapons and you want to shoot a SB? lol, that would be a big mistake.

I appologise if i came across a bit blunt, its been a long day. But that doesn't mean what i said doesn't matter.
With a few tweaks, your list could work!

Zambro

In the case of troops, I prefer to keep the combi-melta if I'm going to drop the meltagun and put a flammer.The main idea of this unit was to be a tankbuster, so I feel that meltapower must be available one way or another. If I drop the PF, what should I put, a PW?

You've got a point on the rhino and the LRR with the SB, I think I'll drop it. But the extra armour I feel it's necessary, specially if I'm heading right to a vehicle and it attacks me. You understand what I mean?

I do not totally agree in the dread case. Dropping it with a DP in the first turn can really hurt enemis troops. And if in the second turn is already to pieces, it doesn't matter, he already did the job. (not totally shure about this althought xD)

Zambro wrote:Your going too expensive on inappropriate things. Troops. Yes they are the back bone of your army, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Either Combi Melta, or PF. TOO expensive for both. Melta gun + melta is a waste of points. If something is 12" away (close enough to use your melta gun) you might as well use your MM and get 2d6 for the armour pen roll. Drop the Melta gun, save 5 points and take a flamer (which are free and still benifit from vulkan). Rhinos are stupidly well kitted out. Drop the Stormbolter. Your either going to be moving up, or a smouldering wreck, in both cases you cant shoot. The Extra armour is debatable, my experiance is that transport always gets blown up, so i wouldn't bother.

Drop the storm bolter from the LRR. POTMS allows you to shoot 1 weapon regardless, you'd be silly to use the stormbolter. Keep the MM, LRR cant really deal with tanks so the MM would make sense.

Following the trend of your current list, Sternguard in a rhino would be best. Powerfist on the sergeant, with combi-meltas and -flamers. Again, drop the Storm bolter from the rhino, unneseccary point sink. NOT the dreadnough, because you'd leave him in enemy ranks on the first turn to be blown to shreads.

Drop the Stormbolter from the pred too. All those strong weapons and you want to shoot a SB? lol, that would be a big mistake.

I appologise if i came across a bit blunt, its been a long day. But that doesn't mean what i said doesn't matter.
With a few tweaks, your list could work!

Zambro

If within 12" you can then use the MM with +2d6 AND the Melta Gun. Str 8 AP1 is still quite potent against AV12 ect. DOnt mix and match your tactical weapons. In a Vulkan list where you dont have access to combat tactics PFs are perfectly fine upgrades. Especially if you want a close range melta bunker as you have proposed already.
10xTacticals with a Multi-M, a Melta Gun, a Combi-M and a PF is a potent AT unit.