Space Marines - Ultramarines 1600pts Army List

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**Zambro**

tedurur wrote:
Zambro wrote:Your going too expensive on inappropriate things. Troops. Yes they are the back bone of your army, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Either Combi Melta, or PF. TOO expensive for both. Melta gun + melta is a waste of points. If something is 12" away (close enough to use your melta gun) you might as well use your MM and get 2d6 for the armour pen roll. Drop the Melta gun, save 5 points and take a flamer (which are free and still benifit from vulkan). Rhinos are stupidly well kitted out. Drop the Stormbolter. Your either going to be moving up, or a smouldering wreck, in both cases you cant shoot. The Extra armour is debatable, my experiance is that transport always gets blown up, so i wouldn't bother.

Drop the storm bolter from the LRR. POTMS allows you to shoot 1 weapon regardless, you'd be silly to use the stormbolter. Keep the MM, LRR cant really deal with tanks so the MM would make sense.

Following the trend of your current list, Sternguard in a rhino would be best. Powerfist on the sergeant, with combi-meltas and -flamers. Again, drop the Storm bolter from the rhino, unneseccary point sink. NOT the dreadnough, because you'd leave him in enemy ranks on the first turn to be blown to shreads.

Drop the Stormbolter from the pred too. All those strong weapons and you want to shoot a SB? lol, that would be a big mistake.

I appologise if i came across a bit blunt, its been a long day. But that doesn't mean what i said doesn't matter.
With a few tweaks, your list could work!

Zambro

If within 12" you can then use the MM with +2d6 AND the Melta Gun. Str 8 AP1 is still quite potent against AV12 ect. DOnt mix and match your tactical weapons. In a Vulkan list where you dont have access to combat tactics PFs are perfectly fine upgrades. Especially if you want a close range melta bunker as you have proposed already.
10xTacticals with a Multi-M, a Melta Gun, a Combi-M and a PF is a potent AT unit.

What i mean is that, the MM is pretty reliable at 12". 3+ reroll to hit and 2d6 to pen. Its looking good. you WILL do something. i agree, that there will be the off chance that the MM does whiff everything, but you still have the 12-24" range to pop it before it gets to that 12" zone. 9 times out of 10 you will take it out in the 12-24" range, meaning the MG isn't getting used that often. (1 out of 10 times). Besides, anyone with a basic grasp of a Vulkan list will not approach 24", which means that there is even more of a reason NOT to use a MG. I speak from experiance and logic(?) here.

@leonhart040. Your logic makes sense about having a combi-melta if you drop the meltagun, it acts as a sort of panic button if something 'scary' comes too close. Again, with the extra armour, its personal preferance. If you have the points, go for it. Saying that having a dread in a DP will hurt troops, thats true on paper, but, lets take your list for example, you have transport for your troops. Even if your enemy is a footsloggin list, chances are they will outnumber it and destroy it after 1 or 2 turns. Give each option a try, see which you would like to keep with