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Does the Animus Speculum gain the +1 to its assault value for every GK within 12" due to their brotherhood of psykers? Or only the units that specify they are psykers? Here's the scenario, player 1 is running a culexus surrounded by 2 squads of purifiers, is he +20 attacks? That's what is being claimed.

No, as IIRC, each squad counts as a psyker. So those 2 units of purifiers give +2.

What does it say under brotherhood of psykers, or whatever that psyker rule is?
Does it say each individual grey knight model is a psyker, or the whole unit counts as a psyker?

The Animus Speculum is the special gun that gets +1 shot for every Psyker within 12" right? If it is, then if htey don't have the Psyker Special rule, they are not Psykers.

Happyjew wrote:The Animus Speculum is the special gun that gets +1 shot for every Psyker within 12" right? If it is, then if htey don't have the Psyker Special rule, they are not Psykers.

Actually they are. The Brotherhood of Psykers rule ensure that.
The question is, however, is the unit a psyker, or the model?

I think it specifies that its the unit, but I am not sure.

Have to be a little bit careful there because you are going across Codices and defining what a Psyker is can be tricky.
Eldar for example don't "the psyker special rule" they do however have a special rule that nominates them as a psyker.

Certainly the Grey Knights are pretty clear as they say "the unit counts as a single psyker" end of.

Psykers (the henchman type) however are not so clear, as it says "count as a single Pskyer for the purposes of" and given that the addition of another psyker to the unit enlarges the effect a case could be argued that each individual psyker could add an attack to the Assassin.

Mystics too, the rule states in the fluff that "Mystics are minor psykers"

Within the Codex of grey Knights however the term Psyker Level X is used as a specific attribute and is mentioned in the army listing.

So: Grey Knights 1 Psyker per Unit, Pskyers probably counts as 1 but could be argued to count individually, Mystic could be argued to be a Psyker but probably isn't.

Either way stick your guy at the back overwatching a libby (+1), 2 strike squads (+1 each) and an Inquisitoral warband of a PsInquisitor(+1) and a bunch of Psykers(+1, maybe more) and you have, +5 attacks

I think the spirit of the rule is that they count as one, I can't imagine GW would want a situation where two warbands of 12 mystics with PsInquisitors and 6 strike squads would yield 88 Str 5 attacks !

I'd like that but I doubt anyone else would.

each IC and each vehicle also counts as a seperate psyker but each unit of GK counts as one. Each squad of psykers counts so far as just one. I'm still torn on what mystics count as but doubt they are counted as they lack the "psyker" special rule.

In your scenario, the assassin would just get 2 bonus shots.

If you threw in a techmarine into each squad and if they were each in a transport, then you'd have +6 total

Can Mystics cast any Psychic Powers? If not then I would not count them as a psyker.

Magpie wrote:Have to be a little bit careful there because you are going across Codices and defining what a Psyker is can be tricky.

?? The only army that can have a Culexus Assassin is GK. How is that 'across Codices'?

don_mondo wrote:

Magpie wrote:Have to be a little bit careful there because you are going across Codices and defining what a Psyker is can be tricky.

?? The only army that can have a Culexus Assassin is GK. How is that 'across Codices'?

He was talking about psykers.
For Eldar, Orks, SM and IG it's fairly clear since only 1 or 2 models are psykers. In GK its less clear since the term psyker could be applied to a lot of models, and they are probably the only army that features entire squads of them (barring IG, but that is only one specific squad anyway).

DeathReaper wrote:Can Mystics cast any Psychic Powers? If not then I would not count them as a psyker.

True enough but the rule for Mystics says they are psykers and compares them to other psykers.
I'm not saying they are just that it could be argued they are.

Magpie wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Can Mystics cast any Psychic Powers? If not then I would not count them as a psyker.

True enough but the rule for Mystics says they are psykers and compares them to other psykers.
I'm not saying they are just that it could be argued they are.

I would say no, because that would mean the culexus gets the bonus against every single craftworld eldar.
And that's just insane.

God if in the next elder book they are described as all being psykers culexus assassins will be unreal

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:God if in the next elder book they are described as all being psykers culexus assassins will be unreal

Yeah, Eldar players would be royally pissed.

"oh hey, that 10 man guardian squad and that 10 man seer coucil + farseer is within 12" of my assassin. And I have 5 squads of GK behind him.
That means I get...28 shots. At S5 AP1. Did I mention that I am BS10 and shooting at your farseer?"

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:God if in the next elder book they are described as all being psykers culexus assassins will be unreal

Yeah, Eldar players would be royally pissed.

"oh hey, that 10 man guardian squad and that 10 man seer coucil + farseer is within 12" of my assassin. And I have 5 squads of GK behind him.
That means I get...28 shots. At S5 AP1. Did I mention that I am BS10 and shooting at your farseer?"

You say that like it is a bad thing ?

Magpie wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:God if in the next elder book they are described as all being psykers culexus assassins will be unreal

Yeah, Eldar players would be royally pissed.

"oh hey, that 10 man guardian squad and that 10 man seer coucil + farseer is within 12" of my assassin. And I have 5 squads of GK behind him.
That means I get...28 shots. At S5 AP1. Did I mention that I am BS10 and shooting at your farseer?"

You say that like it is a bad thing ?

I am not a GK player

Joking aside, I find that to be unbalanced. 1 man armies shouldn't exist, and a single model sure as hell shouldn't be able to churn out that much AP1 dakka.

Have to admit tho' it is kinda cool, I'd pay money to see the look on the Eldar players face !

Looks like GK are being nerfed in 6th ed anyway so the boot will be on the other foot soon I guess.

Magpie wrote:Have to admit tho' it is kinda cool, I'd pay money to see the look on the Eldar players face !

Looks like GK are being nerfed in 6th ed anyway so the boot will be on the other foot soon I guess.

Oh really, how so?

I have no idea, it is all rumours at the moment. I think I saw a thread here that said that?

Edit: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/422860.page

The '6th edition leak' that thread is based on has already been debunked.

Ergo - rumours

And therefore no reason to tell somebody that Grey Knights are getting nerfed in 6th edition.

"looks like" very different to "are"

No. They are quite the same thing. It would be entirely appropriate to say it "looks like" its raining outside if it is actually raining.

or you could say "looks like" rain when there are clouds about, doesn't mean it's is or is going to rain.

BoP means they are a single psyker - as specified exactly clearly in the BoP rule

The "psyker" unit are also a single psyker, as specifically stated in their rule. Of course, you can ignore this rule, ignore the fact they dont have the "psyker" special rule anywhere in their special rules, and decide that because they are called "Psykers" that they all individually count as psykers, but then you are now claiming Assault cannon are Assault weapons and Heavy flamers are Heavy weapons. Which is wrong, but you can try to claim it if you wanted to.

Mystics are not psykers, as their rules (as opposed to non-rules fluff) do not state they are psykers, they never cast any psychic powers, and so on

The whole GK codex has been written to specifically limit the number of indivdual "psykers" you can field. Even the GK vehicles are not psykers for this purpose.

Wrong. To be correct you would say it looks like it might rain.

Regardless, your post was misleading. Hence that's why you were asked to clarify why they were getting nerfed in 6th edition.

Ghaz wrote:Wrong. To be correct you would say it looks like it might rain.

Maybe in the USA mate but not frum 'round 'ere, sorry to confuse you with a cultural difference.


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nosferatu1001 wrote:BoP means they are a single psyker - as specified exactly clearly in the BoP rule

The "psyker" unit are also a single psyker, as specifically stated in their rule. Of course, you can ignore this rule, ignore the fact they dont have the "psyker" special rule anywhere in their special rules, and decide that because they are called "Psykers" that they all individually count as psykers, but then you are now claiming Assault cannon are Assault weapons and Heavy flamers are Heavy weapons. Which is wrong, but you can try to claim it if you wanted to.

Mystics are not psykers, as their rules (as opposed to non-rules fluff) do not state they are psykers, they never cast any psychic powers, and so on

The whole GK codex has been written to specifically limit the number of indivdual "psykers" you can field. Even the GK vehicles are not psykers for this purpose.

In your view, I suggest it's not that clear

Why do you say the vehicles aren't included, Psychic Pilot seems to say they are psykers.

Magpie wrote:Looks like GK are being nerfed in 6th ed...

No matter what part of the globe you are from, your words say otherwise. You said that they are getting nerfed and not that they might be.

Believe whatever you want, your own words say otherwise. I'm done with someone who can't admit what he clearly wrote.

Yes probably best to move on mate, looks like you're getting steamed over a simple misunderstanding.

Magpie wrote:Why do you say the vehicles aren't included, Psychic Pilot seems to say they are psykers.

Because GK Vehicles have the rule 'Psychic Pilot' which clearly states that they are "Treated as a psyker (Mastery lvl 1) and LD 10 for the purposes of Psychic tests and psychic hoods"

A Culexus assassin is neither a Psychic tests or a psychic hood. So they are not treated as a psyker as far as the Culexus assassin is concerned.