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What do you guys think of him? I personally think he is cooler than the rest of the primarchs. Discuss.

He's awesome because he is space batman.

Batman? Yes. Cool? Yes again.

Cooler than Magnus? No.
Cooler than the Lion? No.
Cooler than Lorgar? Definately.

Curze has a certain loner air to him that makes him attractive (no not in that way... c'mon guys). But what specifically do you like about him? What makes him the coolest?

The batman-ness of him is pretty cool. I also like the fact that he doesnt give a Flip about nearly anyone but himself.

He's Colonel Kurtz, as played by Marlon Brando.

He's pretty cool. I like some of the other Primarchs better, but I don't dislike Curze.

He's based pm Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now, which was based on Heart of Darkness written by Joseph Conrad. Hence Conrad Curze. He's assassinated by M'Shen, named after Martin Sheen, who plays a government assassin in Apocalypse Now. In the movie, as in 40k, the renegade super soldier allows himself to be assassinated because he's sick of life. No doubt GW has found a way to retroactively sue Francis Ford Coppola for stealing their stolen intellectual property.

His ideologies are more akin to The Punishers, or Rorshacks than Batman's. Batman is a punk sissy who is afraid of killing.

BlaxicanX wrote:His ideologies are more akin to The Punishers, or Rorshacks than Batman's. Batman is a punk sissy who is afraid of killing.

He's not exactly like Batman.

He's similar in the way that well, he's bats , and well they both use fear.

Curze is like batman if you mix in the toxins from dark knight and the joker with the batman... He's a little loopy

As written of by Aaron Dembski-Bowden? Amazing. Probably in my top five Primarchs.

I quite agree....I might play Night Lords with the new codex because he just became my top 5 primarchs

The coolest primarchs are the two nobody knows anything about. But yeh compared to the others he's up there.

Magnus is much, much cooler.

space batman is epic though.


Although no-one is cooler than robuitte guilliman. *ducks*

Nom

Although I prefer Guilliman and Pertuarbo, Kurze is still pretty cool.

Jimsolo wrote:As written of by Aaron Dembski-Bowden? Amazing. Probably in my top five Primarchs.

I have a theory that Aaron Dembski-Bowden tricked you into a contract where you have to mention how amazing he is at least once every five minutes.

GreatGunz wrote:He's based pm Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now, which was based on Heart of Darkness written by Joseph Conrad. Hence Conrad Curze. He's assassinated by M'Shen, named after Martin Sheen, who plays a government assassin in Apocalypse Now. In the movie, as in 40k, the renegade super soldier allows himself to be assassinated because he's sick of life. No doubt GW has found a way to retroactively sue Francis Ford Coppola for stealing their stolen intellectual property.

That's really half assing it. They need to sue the estate of Joseph Conrad for his character of Kurtz from his 1899 (pub.1903) novella Heart of Darkness.

Honestly, I think I'd like Curze a lot better if he was a more blatant ripoff of Kurtz. The Curze from 40K seems a bit too mustache twirling. I haven't delved too far into the Night Lords fluff or novels, but the way he's been portrayed in the stuff I haev read seems a bit weaksauce.

But, of course, it's important to note that both Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now are about the protagonists, Marlow & Willard respectively, not about Kurtz. The Colonel Kurtz from AN is a fantastic character, brilliantly performed by Marlon Brando. But in the end, he's not that deep of a character. He's a representation of the evil that men are capable of (the darkness in their hearts, essentially, though the title of Conrad's novel has several meanings). Curze is a character whose motivations are best left unexplored, in my opinion. The more we know about him, the less interesting he is. Out of all the traitor Primarchs, he's certainly the most pyschotic or sociopathic, even more so than Angron. There's just not much you need to explore about Curze. He's the ruthless businessman of war. For him, the ends justify the means, to the most extreme. He ignores external costs (civilian deaths, etc) in favor of a bottom line (pacification, conquest, etc). It's going to be hard for anyone to convincingly write a guy like that.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

GreatGunz wrote:He's based pm Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse Now, which was based on Heart of Darkness written by Joseph Conrad. Hence Conrad Curze. He's assassinated by M'Shen, named after Martin Sheen, who plays a government assassin in Apocalypse Now. In the movie, as in 40k, the renegade super soldier allows himself to be assassinated because he's sick of life. No doubt GW has found a way to retroactively sue Francis Ford Coppola for stealing their stolen intellectual property.

That's really half assing it. They need to sue the estate of Joseph Conrad for his character of Kurtz from his 1899 (pub.1903) novella Heart of Darkness.

Honestly, I think I'd like Curze a lot better if he was a more blatant ripoff of Kurtz. The Curze from 40K seems a bit too mustache twirling. I haven't delved too far into the Night Lords fluff or novels, but the way he's been portrayed in the stuff I haev read seems a bit weaksauce.

But, of course, it's important to note that both Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now are about the protagonists, Marlow & Willard respectively, not about Kurtz. The Colonel Kurtz from AN is a fantastic character, brilliantly performed by Marlon Brando. But in the end, he's not that deep of a character. He's a representation of the evil that men are capable of (the darkness in their hearts, essentially, though the title of Conrad's novel has several meanings). Curze is a character whose motivations are best left unexplored, in my opinion. The more we know about him, the less interesting he is. Out of all the traitor Primarchs, he's certainly the most pyschotic or sociopathic, even more so than Angron. There's just not much you need to explore about Curze. He's the ruthless businessman of war. For him, the ends justify the means, to the most extreme. He ignores external costs (civilian deaths, etc) in favor of a bottom line (pacification, conquest, etc). It's going to be hard for anyone to convincingly write a guy like that.

Last bit seems more like the world eaters than the night lords. I mean the night lords cared about the civilians! They cared so much they took care that when they flayed the bodies they but them up so everyone could see! And that way they wouldn't get hurt!

He's less of a business man more of a twisted batman. Forever seeking justice (whatever Curze deems that to be), just going about it in a different way.

Magnus and Sanguinius are cooler, but he's a Primarch with lightning claws, and he's Space Batman.

I don't see Batman at all.

People are taking his headwear way too literally. :lol:

He went to the top of my list of favourite Primarchs when I read about him beating Dorn to within an inch of his life. Also, the audio book of his escape following this was brilliant.

The most interesting thing for me is that he appears to have had a limited psychic potential that granted him visions of the future. He actually predicted that the Astartes would turn on each other and when he tried to warn the others they called him crazy (I think that this directly led to the aforementioned ass-kicking of Dorn).

Veteran Sergeant wrote:I don't see Batman at all.

People are taking his headwear way too literally. :lol:

lol not literally batman, but the fact that he runs around in a dark city (in this case, LITERALLY, as the world doesn't have much light) and fights crime in a vigilante fashion is what makes him similar. That and people were scared, as i said before

What books are the Nightlords in? I really want to read more of the fluff....and if I play them I'm hoping that i don't have to have bat wings on everything.

The only Night Lords book I've read is Soul Hunter and most of my info on Curze comes from Lexicanum, but his motives seem kind of weird. At time he seems like a vigilante, motivated by his insane version of justice. Other times he seems just like a crazy guy who kills for the sake of killing, kind of like Angron. Could someone clarify this?

riverhawks32 wrote:What books are the Nightlords in? I really want to read more of the fluff....and if I play them I'm hoping that i don't have to have bat wings on everything.

Soul Hunter, Blood Reaver, Lord of the Night. and there's audio books (throne of lies, the dark king). There's also a couple short stories involving nightlords... I think one's in the fear the xenos, and another one is in..... I don't remember had something to do with Raptors and recruitment.

And in the anthology.... age of darkness? I'm not sure... The ones by Aaron DB are pretty good....

LoneLictor wrote:The only Night Lords book I've read is Soul Hunter and most of my info on Curze comes from Lexicanum, but his motives seem kind of weird. At time he seems like a vigilante, motivated by his insane version of justice. Other times he seems just like a crazy guy who kills for the sake of killing, kind of like Angron. Could someone clarify this?

Maybe because he's a little loopy? Only reasoning I can come up with

He started off as a crime-fighting vigilante. Since he couldn't be everywhere at once, he used terror tactics to frighten criminals into obeying the law. Then when he got his own legion he did more or less the same thing, using terror tactics to conquer new worlds for the imperium or else to frighten compliant worlds to stay loyal, if they were thinking about rebelling. But he kind of started to lose his mind towards the beginning of the Heresy, because like colonel kurtz he was a humane person who had embraced savagery and violence too completely. He rebelled against the emperor because he thought the emperor's ideals were hypocritical, and allowed himself to be assassinated because he thought that would prove that he was right. Also because he was sick of what he and his legion had become. Basically he rage-quit life. I don't know if I'm explaining it very well. Watch Apocalypse Now for the fuller explanation. It's all based on that movie. And Batman.

BlaxicanX wrote:His ideologies are more akin to The Punishers, or Rorshacks than Batman's. Batman is a punk sissy who is afraid of killing.

Not in all of his many incarnations Batman's not. Frank Miller's Batman, for instance, quite frequently toted firearms.

And there's always this...



"Golly, Batman, don't we have a code against using guns and killing people?"

"Sorry, Robin, I can't hear you over the racket of this chain gun and the screams of the maimed and dying!"

Well, let's be realistic. Every comic book character joined the war effort at some point. America was a far more sentimental and patriotic place back then. Batman couldn't let Jerry walk all over our friends in Yurp.

Oh, the 1940s picture was just added for amusement's sake. The relevant point (which I realise it may have overshadowed) remains, however, that, contrary to the assertion made, Frank Miller's Batman was no stranger to firearms, nor to arbitrary killing (neither, in fact was Denny O'Neill's back in the 1970s).

For further amusement, here's less well-remembered hero the Black Terror (Nemesis of Crime, apparently) and sidekick demonstrating an Angron-esque level of overkill by crushing the Imperial Japanese Army (drawn, incidentally as quite horribly rascist caricatures) with a steamroller and machine-gunning them.

There's just a truck load of "America, F*** Yeah" written all over that picture, lol.

Don't get me wrong, I see how his origins as a vigilante of sorts can draw a Batman reference, but I just think that's such a tiny, tiny part of his back story. Being a ruthless vigilante is what turned him into a ruthless warfighter, most likely. But Curze was ultimately a military general, not a crime fighter. I think the bat wings from some of the goofier looking depictions of the Night Lords gets disproportionately tied to that sliver of his back story. Batman was occasionally willing to tread moral grey areas to right wrongs. Curze was just willing to commit all sorts of atrocities because he lacked any kind of moral compass. If anything, Curze is the anti-Batman.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:There's just a truck load of "America, F*** Yeah" written all over that picture, lol.

Don't get me wrong, I see how his origins as a vigilante of sorts can draw a Batman reference, but I just think that's such a tiny, tiny part of his back story. Being a ruthless vigilante is what turned him into a ruthless warfighter, most likely. But Curze was ultimately a military general, not a crime fighter. I think the bat wings from some of the goofier looking depictions of the Night Lords gets disproportionately tied to that sliver of his back story. Batman was occasionally willing to tread moral grey areas to right wrongs. Curze was just willing to commit all sorts of atrocities because he lacked any kind of moral compass. If anything, Curze is the anti-Batman.

Curze a military general? I'm not seeing it....