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Plus the assassin had to use a C'tan Phase Sword to off Curze, and let's face it, that is a much manlier way to go out.

Void__Dragon wrote:Plus the assassin had to use a C'tan Phase Sword to off Curze, and let's face it, that is a much manlier way to go out.

Well, technically M'Shen could've used a tea-spoon considering Kurze knew she was coming and wanted to die.

A Coup De Grace with a tea-spoon...

NOW THAT'S A WAY TO DIE.

Just to be TFG, I don't think it's even possible to kill a Primarch with a teaspoon.

Ignatius wrote:Just to be TFG, I don't think it's even possible to kill a Primarch with a teaspoon.

There is always a way..

BAM...
...Spoonkilled...

TheRobotLol wrote:
There is always a way..

Through the eyes and scooping out the brain seems to be the only way I can think of, assuming the spoon is made of stainless steel (a spoon made of a particularly tough material and launch at Kurze at a high velocity might also do the trick).

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:
There is always a way..

Through the eyes and scooping out the brain seems to be the only way I can think of, assuming the spoon is made of stainless steel (a spoon made of a particularly tough material and launch at Kurze at a high velocity might also do the trick).

Spooning leads to forking... so if spoons don't work on Curze, would forks be any better?

I like Curze, evil without the need for chaos...

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

TheRobotLol wrote:
There is always a way..

Through the eyes and scooping out the brain seems to be the only way I can think of, assuming the spoon is made of stainless steel (a spoon made of a particularly tough material and launch at Kurze at a high velocity might also do the trick).

Spooning leads to forking... so if spoons don't work on Curze, would forks be any better?

I like Curze, evil without the need for chaos...

He really wasn't evil though! He was just an innocent super soldier raised by a bad crowd. Early on he learned that fear and scare tactics won him everything....so I don't see how you could call him evil?

He may have started out as an ok guy in a bad situation, but at some point he internalized all that evil and that was just who he was. I mean at some point you become responsible for who you are, right? You can't be 50 or 60 in real time and blame the way your life turned out on your parents. It's all you at that point. Same thing with Kurze

I could argue that since he was brought up like that he really didn't know any different.

GreatGunz wrote: mean at some point you become responsible for who you are, right?

Not unless you're mentally insane.

Why do Sociopaths not get punished for murders the same way non-sociopaths do? Because part of being a sociopath is that you're unable to even contemplate why your actions were wrong, so you feel no remorse. Ergo, there's no point in punishing you for it. It would be like hitting a dog for pissing on the sidewalk, or calling a lion evil for eating a gazelle.

Curze is literally insane. He may have started off as a good person, but the events on Nostromo simply turned him into a psychopath. The man was wiling to be beheaded just to prove that his actions were just. That's the mark of a mentally unbalanced man.

I agree, Kurze was not mustache-twirling evil, but he was a sociopathic murderer. For anyone who's seen the show Dexter, there's a parallel you can draw:

Kurze grew up not so much knowing right from wrong as knowing order from chaos. He did what needed to be done to instill order on his planet. Every primarch seems to have had this as a basic instinct. This is his "code" that he lives by - using any means necessary to maintain order and obedience.

Dexter is a sociopath as well, not inherently knowing right from wrong, but having his father carefully teach him how to fit into society and who it's ok to kill (bad guys). He has learned a code and he sticks to it rigorously even if it doesn't come from any internal sense of right and wrong.

The Emperor sees the value in Kurze's abilities and uses him as a tool to keep conquered planets in line (the same way Dexter's dad essentially used Dexter as a tool to kill people who deserved it but escaped justice). There is a thin line being walked - very dangerous characters who kill and torture without remorse, but who maintain self-control and apply themselves to what they see as a higher calling. Kurze is constantly tortured by dark visions and desires that he struggles to keep in check.

Now, imagine if Dexter's dad came back and told Dexter that everything he thought he knew about how to live life was wrong. If Dexter's dad basically revealed he had been using his son to settle old scores, and now no longer needed him to kill people. Dexter's whole internalized code that kept his killing in check would basically disappear overnight, and he would probably become quite unhinged in the process. Who is he allowed to kill? Who deserves to die? Does his own father deserve to die for what he has done?

This is essentially what happened to Kurze. Once the other primarchs started to realize he was a dangerous nutter, and after whipping Dorn like a red-headed stepchild, Kurze was basically cast out by the only authority figure he knew, the Emperor. Sent to punish wayward planets as only he could, then told he was wrong to do so? Kurze saw hypocrisy in the Emperor's actions - unable to see right and wrong for himself, he had attempted to follow a black and white worldview where order was desirable at all costs, and now the Emperor had reversed himself, shamed Kurze, and proved himself arbitrary and self-serving.

Unable to see any shades of grey in terms of morality, Kurze doubles down on what he thinks he knows - order at all costs - and decides for himself the Emperor is a liar, a weakling, lacking conviction to do what is needed for the Imperium to work. He's no different from the corrupt politicians and crime-bosses that Kurze took down on Nostramo, and he used Kurze for his own purposes. Here Kurze is especially interesting because even without his visions of dark futures, he sees something about the Emperor that his brothers don't - that regardless of the Emperor's intentions, in the end he cannot maintain order in the Imperium. As a result the Imperium is weak, rotten, doomed to fail.

Now after all that, Kurze returns to find his own planet has descended into lawlessness again. This is the point where I think Kurze really loses it. Nostramo is like a microcosm of the Imperium, proving everything will always decay into corruption and lawlessness. The punishment must be death. What existed of Kurze's moral code has fallen apart - the only authority figure he ever knew has proved to be a sham, and even his own planet cannot be kept in line. The whole planet needs to be put down. The whole Imperium needs to be put down. The only true authority, the only true code, is unbridled cruelty and murder, and there is no-one left in the galaxy who does not deserve it. At this point Kurze is a rabid dog who has slipped his leash, with nothing whatsoever left to keep his murderous urges in check.

So, yeah, fun character. I'll get off my soapbox now

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

*snip*

You just said it perfectly. The guy is already unstable, and bit by bit the "strings" are snapping in his mind. The Dexter thing is a really good analogy.

I like him. He had good intentions, dispite having no idea how to be a good person. Also, his resignation towards his own death gives him a sombreness.

Out of all the primarchs his story is by far the best. Never had it easy...decided to scare the crap out of everyone. My kinda guy