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Going to be playing against Tau again soon and I know for a fact that he'll be fielding the dreaded Hammerhead. So I was just wondering what are the best anti-tank tactics against Tau or any other army for that matter!? Right now I have meltavets in chimera but feel I need something more. I love the idea of having a Vanquisher as dedicated tank hunter fluff but I know it has some serious flaws and doesn't receive much love. Vendetta gunship looks good and could even use Medusa.............anyway what are everyone's thoughts?

Many thanks

Well do you run meq guard or inf guard? For Meq I would say vendettas or a Leman Russ. From personal experience the Vanquisher doesn't hit near enough to make its points. For inf guard the tried and true way is Lascannon teams with a CCS yelling "BRING IT DOWN!!!!" that is most effective.

riverhawks32 wrote:Well do you run meq guard or inf guard? For Meq I would say vendettas or a Leman Russ. From personal experience the Vanquisher doesn't hit near enough to make its points. For inf guard the tried and true way is Lascannon teams with a CCS yelling "BRING IT DOWN!!!!" that is most effective.

What about Pask

I actually have a lot of success with the vanquisher against certain armies that field dangerous vehicles. Armor doesn't mean squat to a vanquisher, which is nice, so your only obstacle is the BS, and the fact that it's not AP1. Slap a lascannon on it and add Pask and you've got yourself a pretty nice Anti-Tank unit if you ask me. It's not cheap, but for me, it works. Plus you've got just as much range with it as your opponent will.

Isn't the Hammerhead av12? Just bring the usual IG massive volume of fire and you should be able to, at the very least, glance it into submission.

bmoleski wrote:I actually have a lot of success with the vanquisher against certain armies that field dangerous vehicles. Armor doesn't mean squat to a vanquisher, which is nice, so your only obstacle is the BS, and the fact that it's not AP1. Slap a lascannon on it and add Pask and you've got yourself a pretty nice Anti-Tank unit if you ask me. It's not cheap, but for me, it works. Plus you've got just as much range with it as your opponent will.

I agree With you 100% thats my experance to.

bmoleski wrote:I actually have a lot of success with the vanquisher against certain armies that field dangerous vehicles. Armor doesn't mean squat to a vanquisher, which is nice, so your only obstacle is the BS, and the fact that it's not AP1. Slap a lascannon on it and add Pask and you've got yourself a pretty nice Anti-Tank unit if you ask me. It's not cheap, but for me, it works. Plus you've got just as much range with it as your opponent will.

+2, this set up, while pricey is quite effective at making enemy tanks lay down. With sponson Heavy Bolters, they're effectively S6 against Vehicles, plus a S10 LC and S9+2D6 cannon.

I believe it is AV 13 in the front, I can't quite remember to be positive.

The only reason I switched from a vanquisher with pask to two dedicated lascannon squads with the officer is because of this scenario:
Vanquisher shoots with its main cannon and scores a hit
Rolls for armor penetration- double 6's- penetrating hit
Rolls on damage table- 6- vehicle explodes
Tau player, if he's got any sense rolls cover save from decoy launchers (or whatever it is)- saves with a 4.

Shot is saved- no damage whatsoever

Pretty lame man.

I've had no problems with tau machines. Its probly my Luck but my Vanquisher reaps a grim harvest on the xenos. to back up the Vanquisher a Battle tank with Lascannons has enough firepower to bring them to the ground.

Lascannon teams are just as effective but the versitility and durability that a Leman Russ can bring can off set it all. but with enough points i try and bring both tanks and lascannons against the Tau machines.

Engine of War wrote:I've had no problems with tau machines. Its probly my Luck but my Vanquisher reaps a grim harvest on the xenos. to back up the Vanquisher a Battle tank with Lascannons has enough firepower to bring them to the ground.

Lascannon teams are just as effective but the versitility + DURABILITY that a Leman Russ can bring can off set it all. but with enough points i try and bring both tanks and lascannons against the Tau machines.

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Ignatius wrote:I believe it is AV 13 in the front, I can't quite remember to be positive.

The only reason I switched from a vanquisher with pask to two dedicated lascannon squads with the officer is because of this scenario:
Vanquisher shoots with its main cannon and scores a hit
Rolls for armor penetration- double 6's- penetrating hit
Rolls on damage table- 6- vehicle explodes
Tau player, if he's got any sense rolls cover save from decoy launchers (or whatever it is)- saves with a 4.

Shot is saved- no damage whatsoever

Pretty lame man.

Pretty specific scenario with Tau, another annoying one is Sprit Stones with Eldar.

Engine of War wrote:I've had no problems with tau machines. Its probly my Luck but my Vanquisher reaps a grim harvest on the xenos. to back up the Vanquisher a Battle tank with Lascannons has enough firepower to bring them to the ground.

Lascannon teams are just as effective but the versitility that a Leman Russ can bring can off set it all. but with enough points i try and bring both tanks and lascannons against the Tau machines.

I would say that a vanquisher isn't any more versitle than a lascannon squad. What I will wholeheartedly agree with is the durability of a leman russ. AV 14 front is terribly difficult to crack. Only a few weapons in an entire army punches through with consistancy.

And yes Stormrider, I have played a dual hammerhead tau list the past 6 times i've managed to get a game in.

Ignatius wrote:

Engine of War wrote:I've had no problems with tau machines. Its probly my Luck but my Vanquisher reaps a grim harvest on the xenos. to back up the Vanquisher a Battle tank with Lascannons has enough firepower to bring them to the ground.

Lascannon teams are just as effective but the versitility that a Leman Russ can bring can off set it all. but with enough points i try and bring both tanks and lascannons against the Tau machines.

I would say that a vanquisher isn't any more versitle than a lascannon squad. What I will wholeheartedly agree with is the durability of a leman russ. AV 14 front is terribly difficult to crack. Only a few weapons in an entire army punches through with consistancy.

And yes Stormrider, I have played a dual hammerhead tau list the past 6 times i've managed to get a game in.

Yeah, one of my friends has a Tau list with every crazy upgrade for vehicles. God the Disruprion Pod is annoying.

taking a vanquisher against tau is a terrible idea. Rail guns are going to wreck your vanquisher faster than your vanquisher is going to wreck his skimmer. If his hammerhead is the ONLY source of railguns, then this might be a reasonable gamble, but if he has broadsides, forget it. Tau are still pretty much the best long-range anti-tank out there, especially once you look at things comprehensively, like the fact that he can put down markerlights.

If you're doing mech guard, I'd actually recommend just taking any unit that can take a lascannon, and give it a lascannon. Putting all your eggs into a single basket (even if it's an AV14 basket) is a recipe for disaster here. Spreading out lots of anti-tank firepower over lots of units means that he's not going to be able to take out every threat within the first couple of turns (or at least, until you wreck his railguns).

If you're not doing mech, then the same applies. Power blobs with lascannons are going to sneer at his hammerheads (yes, even against submunitions if you're smart about how spread out you keep your models), and provide endless turns of lascannon fire, and can even take orders to boot.

Otherwise, I'd recommend this as a time to take melta stormies. They are guaranteed to get a chance to shoot before they are shot at, and with airborne assault it's not very difficult to get them in range... even in melta range if you're willing to be a little risky. The best part is that the meltas also ID all of his suits, the AP1 is good against broadsides, and the AP3 makes them good against crisis. Heck, even their carapace gets a chance to save against pulse weapons. There isn't really anything in his codex that either melta or plasma stormies can't reasonably handle.

I second melta stormtroopers, regardless of what else is in your army. They drop or outflank inside the disruption pod range and within 2d6 melta range for a side/rear shot, and cripple/kill a tank nearly every time.

You can get two 5-man stormtrooper units with 2 meltas each for less than the cost of your Paskquisher. Add an astropath, and the hammerhead is pretty much dead on turn 2.

Blobs with missile launchers or lascannons is the way to go. His expensive str 10 ap 1 railgun can kill a whopping, 1 guardsman, and if hes in cover its 50/50 you save. However if your mech, kiss your chimeras good bye.

Deep striking stormies is the way to go, IG in general don't have that much long-range anti-tank stuff, unless you want to go with a squadron of basilisks (no cover saves from indirect fire AND will butcher his infantry to boot).

I love how people complain about the 1 and only thing in the Tau codex that dosent suck.

The Disruption Pod!

Everything else in the codex is sub par and over costed.... but damn those Disruption pods!

Oh how I could go on all day about SM and all the gayness they bring to a match.

=]

I disagree about long range anti tank. We have lascannons, vendettas, medusas, manticores, leman russes, bassies, missle launchers, and auto cannons.

My personel favourite is demo/melta vets , but hydras have won me games before.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I disagree about long range anti tank. We have lascannons, vendettas, medusas, manticores, leman russes, bassies, missle launchers, and auto cannons.

Okay...
Lascannons-I assume you mean HWT, the BS3 Ld 7 T3 ones, yes? The ones that will almost definitely die and/or flee the first opportunity they can, those ones, yeah?
Vendettas are cool but fragile, and they will be a large target that it'd be difficult to get cover from.
Medusas are open-topped and still only a blast weapon which means they're pretty innacurrate.
Manticores are useful, aye.
Leman Russes are too inprecise to rely on them being your anti-vehicle weapons, they have ~50% chance to hit and will probably invoke a cover save on the reciving unit.
Basilisks as I said above are pretty neat.
Missile launchers are S8 and will only damage AV12 on a 4+, as well as being BS3. Definitely not reliable, and just as weak as Lascannon HWT.
Auto-cannons ditto but only S7.
IG gunlines are a lot more fragile than people like to think. Of the options above, only Manticores and Basilisks are really viable against a shooty opponent like Tau.

No, i literally mean the weapon. There are different tactics on how to run them, but if you put a hwt in a squad, then blob the squad, you have at least 2 hwt in a unit that is ld 8-9. Combine with orders.

Gun line ig is vastly more survivable then mech, chimeras are rolling coffins since almost everyone brings at least str 7 spam. Assuming your store plays with terrian.


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HWT are the single gun bases. HWS are the 3 hwts.

Am I wrong in thinking manticores are nasty little bits of kit? One will give you potentially 12 S10 large blasts through the game. their ranege is also long enough that they can be miles away from most threats.

And i think they are Barrage so wouldn't the shots be resovled against the side armour? at Av12 you only need to roll a 3 to pen, plus Hammerheads are pretty big targets so scatter might not be as much of a factor.

The problem with any vehicle against Tau is that the railguns can move & shoot. So even with decent terrain, they can draw a line of sight by moving, and then put the Str10 AP1 hit right on your hull. If it's really important, markerlights can help them hit and negate your cover. So AR14 is not nearly as effective, and anything less than that is a joke.

You don't want to get in a long-range shooting match with Tau, because they can outgun even IG. You want to move up close quickly, deepstrike, outflank, get inside the disruption pod range, and hit them with melta.

If you use an outflanking Vendetta, it might be worth sticking an Astropath in a CCS to get more control over when and where it arrives. Apart from that, I think a Manticore would be very handy.

Actually the Guard out ranges the tau. Especially if your foot guard, im more then content to stand off and shoot if he has rail guns. Big whoop i lose a guardsman per rail gun, on the other hand he cant afford to take wounds on his suits. And he has to get close to use his other weapons.

Mech guard you best close tho.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Actually the Guard out ranges the tau. Especially if your foot guard, im more then content to stand off and shoot if he has rail guns. Big whoop i lose a guardsman per rail gun, on the other hand he cant afford to take wounds on his suits. And he has to get close to use his other weapons.

Ok, hammerheads don't need to use a solid shot on a guardsmen blob. We have a S6 AP4 large blast. As well as Smart missiles (4 shots at 24''), or burst cannons (6 shots at 18''). Mix that in with a markerlight or two from firewarriors (or 5 from pathfinders), and you are losing 8 - 12 guardsmen, depending on how they are spread out. And that's just from one tank, in one shooting phase, while moving 6'' a turn.
Also they are AV 13 front.

With the suits, we can do wound shenanigans pretty well, and we do have drones to take those meltaguns for us.

Hmm, seems like tau are actuallystill a viable army. i was sure i read somewhere they are impossible to play due to being so out of date.

Tau are still viable. They only have about two builds that work, but those builds can still beat IG.

As for Guard outranging Tau, railguns have 72" range. At some point the difference between 72" (84" effective when moving) and 240" becomes irrelevant on a 4X6 table where nothing can really be more than 86" from anything else.

Sure but im talking all foot guard lists. 8-12 guardsmen is a drop in the bucket. And assuming a 2 inch spread thats what 5ish guardsmen per large blast? And for the other weapons you got to get in close, which negates your ranged superiority.

On the other hand most ig heavy weapons are 36-48, meaning we'll out range you. Ive played this game with the Tau before, and once the hammer head is gone there isnt really a massive threat to foot guard.

Mech guard on the other hand, youll eat. Penning chimeras on a 1 or 3+, and they dont have the survivabilty of foot. Nasty.


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And your focusing on one weapon Flavious. The rest of the tau weapons are usually shorter range then the IG.

For mech guard, vendettas and manticores are your best bets for ranged anti tank. Manticore is better then a medusa because of the d3 shots especially vs tau with their disruption pods for cover. Vanquisher is pretty terrible only one shot bs3.

Alrahem platoon outflanking in a Chimeras with the bring it down order is quite good to get inside disruption range with meltas.