Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I wouldn't call 24'' close exactly. But regardless, most of what Tau and Guard have both cover most of the table, but we still have 30'' pulse rifles, suits with JSJ... and I always play with more than one hammerhead.
And the point is, with 20-30 guardsmen in a squad it is rare that you get 2'' spacing between each model (and still be in cover), especially if there is more than one blob like this.

Anyway, the main thing I had an Issue with was the "one guardsman per railgun", because even 5 is more than that.


As far as what the OP was asking, IMHO outflanking definitely will be your best bet, as it is hard to hide artillery from something that can move 12'' a turn and park on top of ruins. For the meltavets plan, you will need a lot of chimeras, because not too many are going to make it through the gauntlet of railguns, Missile spam, and pulse rifles to clean up what's left. Either that, or stuff that is a lot scarier than a speeding box full of meltaguns.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:Sure but im talking all foot guard lists. 8-12 guardsmen is a drop in the bucket. And assuming a 2 inch spread thats what 5ish guardsmen per large blast? And for the other weapons you got to get in close, which negates your ranged superiority.

On the other hand most ig heavy weapons are 36-48, meaning we'll out range you. Ive played this game with the Tau before, and once the hammer head is gone there isnt really a massive threat to foot guard.

Mech guard on the other hand, youll eat. Penning chimeras on a 1 or 3+, and they dont have the survivabilty of foot. Nasty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And your focusing on one weapon Flavious. The rest of the tau weapons are usually shorter range then the IG.

Unless the hammerhead or broadsides get uncomfortable close to a Chimera it's gonna be against it's front AV, though thats kinda beside the point, as railguns are still quite effective against AV12. The thing is, hammerheads are still a BS 4 platform, and with a smart missile systems and a disruption pod they run 165 points. A vendetta has a 44% chance to destroy or blow off the only important weapon on a Hammerhead shooting it's front AV from within 12" (not that hard given it's a fast skimmer) and a 94% chance of destroying, stunning, shaking or blowing the weapon off a Hammerhead and thus preventing it from firing. A Hammerhead can't blow off all the important guns on a Vendetta since it has 3, so it needs a destroyed result for the first calculation the hammerhead only has a 24% chance of destroying the Vendetta, and a 44% chance of shaking or destroying a Vendetta (as they can't be stunned due to extra armor). Vendettas are 35 points cheaper then the SMS and disruption pod set up, and 25 points cheaper then a burst cannon disruption pod set up. They can carry troops, they're fast skimmers, and they can scout and outflank. If you bring Vendettas, have an Astropath and outflank them, or have the first turn and scout move them within 12" of the hammerheads, then you should be picking up pretty good return on investment with your Vendettas. Even taking the hit from the disruption pod you still have a 22% chance of blowing the Hammerhead and a 47% chance of preventing it from firing in it's next turn.

As a guard player fielding vendetta's (and manticores) I'm more worried about broadsides, you can pick up 2 railguns that are more accurate and can take cover saves easier and can't be stunned and all for the same price as a Hammerhead. Stick 3 broadsides with 3 shield drones in cover and you've got a unit that is pretty resilient to long range fire and can dish out the pain. The downside being that the unit runs you 270 points, and more importantly if they're hugging cover on the edge of the board any failed morale checks and they'll escort themselves off the board. If they're not in cover then a barrage of lascannon fire from Vendettas will do them in pretty well, if they are in cover though the number of lascannon shots starts to climb excessively. One thing I think that would work well is an outflanking Vendetta with plasma vets, flying into the cover and dropping the plasma vets so neither are more then 2" away from the Broadsides though cover. I'm not sure if that eliminates the save for the Vendetta, but the plasma vets would certainly not have a cover save against them. Hopefully you can put enough kills into them in a turn or two of shooting to eliminate them or make them break, One of the big things to remember about Broadsides is that if you can make them take leadership checks they're no better at it then we are, and killing 2 shields drones and escorting the broadsides off the table can be effective.

The Imperial Guard has a lot of answers, remember that an ordnance barrage weapon is pinning and makes the leadership check at -1, so if you can even put 1 wound on any kind of suit they have to make an ld 7 pinning check. If you have more then one unit that can do so they may have to make more then 1 pinning check at ld 7. Don't worry, mech guard shall not fail you!

Kiarou wrote:
The Imperial Guard has a lot of answers, remember that an ordnance barrage weapon is pinning and makes the leadership check at -1, so if you can even put 1 wound on any kind of suit they have to make an ld 7 pinning check. If you have more then one unit that can do so they may have to make more then 1 pinning check at ld 7. Don't worry, mech guard shall not fail you!

With a PBS that can be a Ld2 check.

Milisim wrote:I love how people complain about the 1 and only thing in the Tau codex that dosent suck.

The Disruption Pod!

Everything else in the codex is sub par and over costed.... but damn those Disruption pods!

Oh how I could go on all day about SM and all the gayness they bring to a match.

=]

2 pages of responses and only 1 person payed any attention to the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

Every Tau vehicle should spend 5 points on a disruption pod. The entire IG battle plan should revolve around countering the Tau disruption pods.

Quick recap on what disruption pods do: Disruption pods give the Tau vehicle a 4+ cover save anytime it's shot at from more than 12" away. That makes all long ranged IG firepower such as the vendetta and manticore highly unreliable against Tau vehicles. All that in an upgrade for the same cost as a single guardsman.

Fortunately there are some easy ways to counter disruption pods. Vendettas with their scout move can easily get within 12" on turn 1. Disruption pods are a completely moot point when being shot at by melta vets. Manticores should not shoot at vehicles with disruption pods, fire at the T4 W2 LD8 crisis suits instead and make them take a -1 pinning check for an ordinance barrage.

Finally remember as awesome as disruption pods are Tau don't have access smoke launchers. If IG goes 1st a trio of vendettas, a quad melta CCS, and 2 melta vets can start to tear open AV12 Tau vehicles ignoring disruption pods. If IG goes 2nd they an full reserve, deny Tau 2 turns of shooting, and have 2/3 of the army roll in on a 3+ with an astropath. Any vehicles within 24" of a short board edge (2/3 of the board) risk melta attacks by CCS/melta vets in an outflanking vendetta, and that is where the lack of smoke launchers kicks in. Against any imperial/csm army every vehicle pops smoke at the end of turn 2 before IG reserves come in. Tau can't pop smoke, all they can do is keep their vehicles in a 24" by 12" box in the center of their deployment zone, otherwise IG can get within 12" on the turn they roll in.

schadenfreude wrote:

2 pages of responses and only 1 person payed any attention to the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

Erm...

Flavius Infernus wrote:They drop or outflank inside the disruption pod range and within 2d6 melta range for a side/rear shot, and cripple/kill a tank nearly every time.

and then later....

Flavius Infernus wrote:You don't want to get in a long-range shooting match with Tau, because they can outgun even IG. You want to move up close quickly, deepstrike, outflank, get inside the disruption pod range, and hit them with melta.

Emphasis added.

The DP is why I advocate close-up tactics against Tau.

Yeah for one Vanquisher with a LC,Pask, and bolters. you could take almost 9 lascannons for a blob.