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Ok what is the point of the Chaplin? the Chapters of the Astrates are atheist, yes? So what is there job ???

Also why do the marines have "prayer" times? or do they follow some proto religion

Lexicanum

This should help.

Mike101 wrote:Ok what is the point of the Chaplin?

Charlie Chaplin? I always found him rather pointless myself - nothing funny in that sad face, the big shoes, the hat or the walking cane.

Space Marine Chaplains, on the other hand, are quite essential to a working Chapter. They keep the traditions of the Chapter, remind marines of proper behavior and lead by example in the field. And while marines might not see the Emperor as a god, they still think of him as the first and most powerful of their kind, able to watch them and maybe give a hand once in a while. Thus prayer and meditation so their forefather can better see them and know they are true Space Marines.

Spetulhu wrote:
Space Marine Chaplains, on the other hand, are quite essential to a working Chapter. They keep the traditions of the Chapter, remind marines of proper behavior and lead by example in the field. And while marines might not see the Emperor as a god, they still think of him as the first and most powerful of their kind, able to watch them and maybe give a hand once in a while. Thus prayer and meditation so their forefather can better see them and know they are true Space Marines.

This, they are there to keep traditions, look after their brothers in times of need, look for Chaos corruption and preach about the Emperor.

Most space marine chapters are generally only atheistic in the sense that they do not recognize a god, and even then only nominally. In the 10k years that passed since the great crusade they've become very superstitious and ritualized. Even before the great crusade there were already chaplains to deal with the morale, psychological health and spiritual well-being of the the chapter.

Space marines atheistic? They venerate the immortal GOD emperor of mankind, yes?

After the Librarius of each Legion was disbanded due to the Emperors ruling at Nikea the Chaplain Edict was instigated to ensure that all the Legions were obeying the Emperors Orders. Malcador the Sigilite took example from Lorgar and his Word Bearers as Chaplains were already prevalent in his Legion.

This is how it was described the Collected Visions series and seems to make sense, however in the actual series there hasn't been any mention of Chaplains being introduced after Nikea, just the ones that Lorgar sent out to investigate and influence the other Legions.

After the Heresy like has been mentioned, it's to keep up tradition and also to weed out weakness and taint amongst their Chapter Brothers.

GreatGunz wrote:Space marines atheistic? They venerate the immortal GOD emperor of mankind, yes?

Not all do, some like the Fire Hawks treat him as the God Emperor as you say, others just hold him as the best example of a man.

Pilau Rice wrote:After the Librarius of each Legion was disbanded due to the Emperors ruling at Nikea the Chaplain Edict was instigated to ensure that all the Legions were obeying the Emperors Orders. Malcador the Sigilite took example from Lorgar and his Word Bearers as Chaplains were already prevalent in his Legion.

This is how it was described the Collected Visions series and seems to make sense, however in the actual series there hasn't been any mention of Chaplains being introduced after Nikea, just the ones that Lorgar sent out to investigate and influence the other Legions.

After the Heresy like has been mentioned, it's to keep up tradition and also to weed out weakness and taint amongst their Chapter Brothers.

GreatGunz wrote:Space marines atheistic? They venerate the immortal GOD emperor of mankind, yes?

Not all do, some like the Fire Hawks treat him as the God Emperor as you say, others just hold him as the best example of a man.

"The best example of a man" that they believe is immortal, has supernatural powers, whom they pray to, whom they seek blessings from, who they believe watches over them from the afterlife, and who they believe they will join after they die. They may not call the Emperor a god, the way the Ecclesiarchy does, but the way in which they treat him is no different.

...Since when were the Astartes atheist?

AnomanderRake wrote:...Since when were the Astartes atheist?

In Rogue Trader it was said that all Space Marine cults basically reflected the teachings of the ecclisiarchy. In the current incarnation of the great crusade the imperium was virulently atheistic and preached empirical reasoning. Somewhere in between when those pieces of fluff were written.

Pilau Rice wrote:Not all do, some like the Fire Hawks treat him as the God Emperor as you say, others just hold him as the best example of a man.

I think you mean the Fire Angels.

jareddm wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:Not all do, some like the Fire Hawks treat him as the God Emperor as you say, others just hold him as the best example of a man.

I think you mean the Fire Angels.

I don't think he does...
I've never even heard of them...

Iracundus wrote:

"The best example of a man" that they believe is immortal, has supernatural powers, whom they pray to, whom they seek blessings from, who they believe watches over them from the afterlife, and who they believe they will join after they die. They may not call the Emperor a god, the way the Ecclesiarchy does, but the way in which they treat him is no different.

No. For example

Dark Angels
The Dark Angels Chapter gives praise to the Emperor of Mankind but, much to the chagrin of the Ecclesiarchy, do not revere him as a god.

White Scars
They venerate the Emperor as the ultimate Uniter and as their founding father, but not as a deity.

Raven Guard
To the Raven Guard, the Emperor is a distant figure, acknowledged as their founder and master of the galaxy, but who is not accorded the level or worship common amongst other Chapters

.

Crimson Fists
The Crimson Fists venerate the Emperor as the gene-father of the Adeptus Astartes, and Rogal Dorn as the Primarch of the Imperial Fists Legion.

Red Scorpions
The Red Scorpions’ beliefs remain something of a mystery. They do not seem to venerate any Primarch above any other, preferring instead to venerate only the Emperor.

Blood Ravens
Like many Codex Chapters, the Blood Ravens do not venerate the Emperor as a god, but as the mightiest of men.

From their respective IA articles, so some do some the majority don't.

purplefood wrote:

jareddm wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:Not all do, some like the Fire Hawks treat him as the God Emperor as you say, others just hold him as the best example of a man.

I think you mean the Fire Angels.

I don't think he does...
I've never even heard of them...

I think I do to.

Imperial Armour 9 says that the Fire Hawks are believers in the Cult Imperialis.

Fire Angels are another chapter featured in the Badab War.

Mike101 wrote:Ok what is the point of the Chaplin?

Pilau Rice wrote:
I think I do to.

Imperial Armour 9 says that the Fire Hawks are believers in the Cult Imperialis.

Fire Angels are another chapter featured in the Badab War.

You have them reversed. The Fire Angels believe in the Cult Imperialis. The Fire Hawks are simply hotheads.
Fire Angels, straight from their imperial armour book

"They embrace the Imperial Creed as unassailable truth and see themselves as holy fighters in the God Emperor's service whose foremost duty is to defend the Imperium from those who would assail it. They are both active and demonstrative in their faith, a factor which has won them support from within the Ecclesiarchy and allies among the Cardinals Solar"..."there are those of other chapters who judge their close connection to the Imperial church unseemly and potentially compromising to the historic independence of the Space Marines

Iracundus wrote:"The best example of a man" that they believe is immortal, has supernatural powers, whom they pray to, whom they seek blessings from, who they believe watches over them from the afterlife, and who they believe they will join after they die. They may not call the Emperor a god, the way the Ecclesiarchy does, but the way in which they treat him is no different.

A. To all extent the Emperor is immortal so it isn't a belief its fact
B. His powers are completely natural in the 40k universe (chapters don't treat librarians as gods)
C. They believe the Emperor watches over them from LIFE
D. The Emperor has shown he is capable of guiding marines (see the Emperor's Tarot)

OFFICIAL GW CANON FROM CODEX: the majority of marine chapters view to Emperor as their creator/father and the greatest human ever to life, they do not see him as a god.

No matter how you try to turn it GW have set the fluff in stone.

BluntmanDC wrote:No matter how you try to turn it GW have set the fluff in stone.

I lol'd.

Chaplains also lead most of the ceremonies like when a scout becomes a battle brother. I think they also have something to do with the Hypnotic conditioning of marines and issueing purity seals. They also do the pep talks. I always thought that the spacemarines were more like biblical angels in their relationsip to the emperor. Horus being Lucifer and such.

if you go by the awful BA books, they worship the god emp


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i am also of the opnion that some marine chapters do worship him as a god, and some dont, 1k chapters, why not?

As has been said in the thread previously, it is GW canon that most chapters hold the belief that the Emperor is not a god, while a handful of chapters (mostly newer ones) believe he is a god.

As to some posters they are coming to a false conclusion that faith=belief in a god, a prime example that refutes this is Buddists view of the Budda, they pray to him and seek guidance from him but do not view him as a god.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Iracundus wrote:"The best example of a man" that they believe is immortal, has supernatural powers, whom they pray to, whom they seek blessings from, who they believe watches over them from the afterlife, and who they believe they will join after they die. They may not call the Emperor a god, the way the Ecclesiarchy does, but the way in which they treat him is no different.

A. To all extent the Emperor is immortal so it isn't a belief its fact
B. His powers are completely natural in the 40k universe (chapters don't treat librarians as gods)
C. They believe the Emperor watches over them from LIFE
D. The Emperor has shown he is capable of guiding marines (see the Emperor's Tarot)

OFFICIAL GW CANON FROM CODEX: the majority of marine chapters view to Emperor as their creator/father and the greatest human ever to life, they do not see him as a god.

No matter how you try to turn it GW have set the fluff in stone.

Except the old GW CANON FROM RULEBOOK:The exact nature of Marine religious ritual, belief and expression, varies from chapter to chapter, but it is centered around the tenants of the Imperial Cult and the spiritual hegemony of the ecclisiarch.

You should never use the words fluff and set in stone in the same sentence.

BluntmanDC wrote:As to some posters they are coming to a false conclusion that faith=belief in a god, a prime example that refutes this is Buddists view of the Budda, they pray to him and seek guidance from him but do not view him as a god.

That is a god for all intents and purposes. A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Similarly if one looks at the boddhisattva concept, it fills an analogous role to that of saints, or how Primarchs are worshiped by Marines.

That is why Buddhism is classed as a religion. There is a lot of philosophical writing or thinking around it but the same goes for Christianity, and no one disputes that as a religion.


If ancient Greeks worshiped Zeus, honored him, prayed to him, but didn't call him a god, would that suddenly make their practices not religion or Zeus not a god in anything other than name? No.

The differences between the faith of Marines and that of the Ecclesiarchy is purely one of dogma and names. And it is typical that like so much else in the Imperium, they are at odds over what is essentially hair-splitting.

Space Marines during the Great Crusade didn't have Chaplains, the position didn't appear until the Imperial Cult took over management of the Imperium after the Heresy. And like everything else there are differences between different Chapters, maybe yours doesn't use Chaplains, maybe in yours the Reclusiarch outranks the Chapter Master. Who knows?

They're school councillors. With a mace.

Does the position or duties differ for a Chaplin depending on if the chapter he is involved in simply have faith in the emperor or worships him as a god? Or would such duties/teachings/responsibilities still be the same and hold the same importance?

AnomanderRake wrote:Space Marines during the Great Crusade didn't have Chaplains, the position didn't appear until the Imperial Cult took over management of the Imperium after the Heresy. And like everything else there are differences between different Chapters, maybe yours doesn't use Chaplains, maybe in yours the Reclusiarch outranks the Chapter Master. Who knows?

Actually, Word Bearers and Dark Angels are known to have had chaplains during there heresy. Though I believe their duties were very different from each other.

DeathRex wrote:Does the position or duties differ for a Chaplin depending on if the chapter he is involved in simply have faith in the emperor or worships him as a god? Or would such duties/teachings/responsibilities still be the same and hold the same importance?

Every chapter's chaplains will have different positions and duties as every chapter has different traditions, rites, and rituals tied to their history, their homeworld, their geneseed, and their views of the emperor. There may be some similar prayers and sermons between chapters that have one of those things in common, but for the most part I'd consider each chapter's chaplains to be unique.

As an aside, this is why the Deathwatch has their chaplains permanently attached to them, as only a marine who has dedicated himself to the cause would have the time and resources to study the beliefs and traditions of so many different chapters.

jareddm wrote:Every chapter's chaplains will have different positions and duties as every chapter has different traditions, rites, and rituals tied to their history, their homeworld, their geneseed, and their views of the emperor. There may be some similar prayers and sermons between chapters that have one of those things in common, but for the most part I'd consider each chapter's chaplains to be unique.

As an aside, this is why the Deathwatch has their chaplains permanently attached to them, as only a marine who has dedicated himself to the cause would have the time and resources to study the beliefs and traditions of so many different chapters.

Oh I see. Any word on those chaplains part of chapters fallin to chaos in any material? I'd imagine it would be incredibly hard to turn a Chaplin to chaos but not impossible.

DeathRex wrote:Oh I see. Any word on those chaplains part of chapters fallin to chaos in any material? I'd imagine it would be incredibly hard to turn a Chaplin to chaos but not impossible.

Well the Word Bearer's original chaplains became the dark apostles, so the best way to turn a chaplain would be to somehow pervert the rituals he performs without him knowing it. More likely though, when a chapter falls to chaos the chaplains are the first to be gunned down.

jareddm wrote:

DeathRex wrote:Oh I see. Any word on those chaplains part of chapters fallin to chaos in any material?

When a chapter falls to chaos the chaplains are the first to be gunned down.

QFT - the Word Bearers were the only turned Legion to keep their Chaplains, weren't they? All the others put theirs to the sword. When you rebel against the Emperor you don't want the guy who preaches in the name of the Emperor to come along, do you?

Iracundus wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:As to some posters they are coming to a false conclusion that faith=belief in a god, a prime example that refutes this is Buddists view of the Budda, they pray to him and seek guidance from him but do not view him as a god.

That is a god for all intents and purposes. A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Similarly if one looks at the boddhisattva concept, it fills an analogous role to that of saints, or how Primarchs are worshiped by Marines.

That is why Buddhism is classed as a religion. There is a lot of philosophical writing or thinking around it but the same goes for Christianity, and no one disputes that as a religion.


If ancient Greeks worshiped Zeus, honored him, prayed to him, but didn't call him a god, would that suddenly make their practices not religion or Zeus not a god in anything other than name? No.

The differences between the faith of Marines and that of the Ecclesiarchy is purely one of dogma and names. And it is typical that like so much else in the Imperium, they are at odds over what is essentially hair-splitting.

Your personal beliefs are creating false assumptions and descriptions about other peoples faiths.

A. Budda is not a god, that is what buddists believe, don't be disrespectful by ing on their belief system buy forcing your perspective on them.
B. Zues is a god to the ancient greek religion, he was believed to be the father of gods and men and is bescrided as the leader of the gods. They prayed to him because he was a god, the space marines pray to the Emperor because he is a living being that can actually give help, not because he is a god.

The Ecclesiary see the Emperor as a jewish/Christian gid entity, that of all power and knowledge, while most marine chapters see him as the greatest human ever.