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Proposal
Ogryn Wargear Options: The Bone 'Ead may take a power fist for free.

Rationale
Adds some S10 bashing and helps offset the Ogryn price (which I believe is excessive by 5ppm). Would boost the effectiveness and threat range of the unit immensely.

Alternatives
If it seems a bit much, could also have it be purchased. 20pts? 25? (How much do Nobs pay for PKs?)
Could also exchange his Ripper gun for a Power Fist and ? (Ripper pistol has been stolen by Marbo, unfortunately)

Thoughts?

DoW

I dunno, to me they seem too "dumb" to be able to use powerfists and such... I mean they work for orks cause they think their stuff works.... ogryns not so much

maybe just give them "a big axe" that give them +1 or 2 S

or just exchange rippergun for CCW and some pistol thing

I'll agree that a Fist seems a bit much. Although a power weapon is very needed imo to actually have any threat over MEQs.

BewareOfTom wrote:I dunno, to me they seem too "dumb" to be able to use powerfists and such... I mean they work for orks cause they think their stuff works.... ogryns not so much

maybe just give them "a big axe" that give them +1 or 2 S

or just exchange rippergun for CCW and some pistol thing

How so? All you do with a powerfist would be normal hand based attacks like punches, swats, hammerfists, and so on.

Well the point is that one a single Ogryn (the Sergeant) would have access to the Power Fist, not the entire squad.

I figure if they can pull a trigger and shoot a shotgun, they can push an 'on' switch and punch something in the face. Maybe not. PF just seems very brutal and non-finesse. Even a power sword or axe seems like it wouldn't really fit their style of OGRYN SMASH!

Ogryn really aren't that bad in general (T5, 3W, Furious Charge, etc) but giving the sarge a PF means now 2+/3+ armour would worry slightly about taking a few too many unsaveable wounds.

Just an idea though, I'm not married to it.

DoW

The IG won't even issue a power fist to a line Commisar, no way are they wasting this precious resource on a terminally stupid almost human.

DarknessEternal wrote:The IG won't even issue a power fist to a line Commisar, no way are they wasting this precious resource on a terminally stupid almost human.

Salvaged PK then. Taken as a war trophy from a successful Ork campaign.

Too heavy for a human to use (unless you're Yarrick!) and too useful to destroy.

DoW

Kudos for the title btw.
It's difficult because ogryn are over-priced as it is.
Say they were 35 points a model, 25 points for a power fist would be okay. 4 S10 attacks on the charge isn't bad with so many wounds to soak up damage.

Perhaps without needing to change the price of the models you could factor in the cost of the PF?

If the squad numbers 5 models or more, the Bone 'Ead may take a Ogryn Klaw (Counts as Power Fist) for free.

DoW

Joey wrote:25 points for a power fist would be okay.

Everyone else in the codex gets them for 10 points less than that IIRC (never use power fists, I only ever charge Tau and nearly dead Eldar or Orks anyway).

I think the reason he is using the "Ork" price for a power fist is that most of those power fists in the IG codex are not swinging at strength 10! Commissars and the like will be swinging at strength 6.

That said, the only thing that can get a strength 10 power klaw in the ork codex that I know of is the Warboss. Nobs swing at 9 on the charge. If that matters to you with the pricing, though the only difference is between instadeathing Toughness 5 and 4.

Kain wrote:

BewareOfTom wrote:I dunno, to me they seem too "dumb" to be able to use powerfists and such... I mean they work for orks cause they think their stuff works.... ogryns not so much

maybe just give them "a big axe" that give them +1 or 2 S

or just exchange rippergun for CCW and some pistol thing

How so? All you do with a powerfist would be normal hand based attacks like punches, swats, hammerfists, and so on.

well I always imagined a p.fist would be alot harder to use (turn on and such) than a gun, let alone ripper

DogOfWar wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:The IG won't even issue a power fist to a line Commisar, no way are they wasting this precious resource on a terminally stupid almost human.

Salvaged PK then. Taken as a war trophy from a successful Ork campaign.

Too heavy for a human to use (unless you're Yarrick!) and too useful to destroy.

DoW

Ork technology only works if it is attached to a living ork who believes it works.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
free is too good, but 25 points sure

they should reduce the point costs of ogryns and grotesques by 5 points per model though.

I want dual powerfists. Say, 30-40 points.

Exergy wrote:Ork technology only works if it is attached to a living ork who believes it works.

how does yarrik's klaw work then?

BewareOfTom wrote:

Exergy wrote:Ork technology only works if it is attached to a living ork who believes it works.

how does yarrik's klaw work then?

It had to be modified. That detail didn't survive the editions.

Hell, how about powerfeet, like angry marines?

"see that guy over there? He is a bad man. Go stomp on him. But wipe your feet afterward!" Comissar

Exergy wrote:Ork technology only works if it is attached to a living ork who believes it works.

That's true for some Ork technology, but by no means all.

A lot of Ork technology is just basic mechanics/chemistry/physics. A SAG might not work in the hands of a Guardsman, but a bog-standard Ork truck is just an internal combustion engine and wheels. Granted, it wouldn't go faster for being red, but it would still run and drive just fine.

Yarrick's claw, as mentioned above, is an example of Ork tech being perfectly functional in the hands of humans. Whether it had to be modified is moot for this discussion since the same modifications could be made for Ogryn.

OT, seems like there isn't too much hate for a single PF in an Ogryn squad. I might try and play test a little and see if it's OP or not.

Thanks for the input,

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:

Exergy wrote:Ork technology only works if it is attached to a living ork who believes it works.

That's true for some Ork technology, but by no means all.

A lot of Ork technology is just basic mechanics/chemistry/physics. A SAG might not work in the hands of a Guardsman, but a bog-standard Ork truck is just an internal combustion engine and wheels. Granted, it wouldn't go faster for being red, but it would still run and drive just fine.

Yarrick's claw, as mentioned above, is an example of Ork tech being perfectly functional in the hands of humans. Whether it had to be modified is moot for this discussion since the same modifications could be made for Ogryn.

OT, seems like there isn't too much hate for a single PF in an Ogryn squad. I might try and play test a little and see if it's OP or not.

Thanks for the input,

DoW

yea ork fluff has some fun stuff like some of the deadliest rk weaponry being opened up and revealed to be a bunch of bolts rattling around in a fancy looking case.

I'd agree with ogryns taking a power fist or power weapon for the seargent, I'd more think they'd do somethign cheaper though, like a 2 handed power weapon... think big choppa +2str bbut add power weapon. power fist beign an option but for more points so they have versitility

Why cant we give ogryns shields? they are obviously strong enough to carry a Chimera door and a ripper gun

Funk3140 wrote:Why cant we give ogryns shields? they are obviously strong enough to carry a Chimera door and a ripper gun

Love it! Counts-as combat shield!

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:

Funk3140 wrote:Why cant we give ogryns shields? they are obviously strong enough to carry a Chimera door and a ripper gun

Love it! Counts-as combat shield!

DoW

although combat shields dont allow for the additional CCW but i think an ogryn would be able to flatten an elder with a door pretty good.

Well I like the idea of a PF on the bone 'ead. But I think rending fits ogryns more an will make there price more "like able" .

BewareOfTom wrote:

Exergy wrote:Ork technology only works if it is attached to a living ork who believes it works.

how does yarrik's klaw work then?

Also, Yarrick has gained a unique vision of the Ork mindset, he knows all about hierarchy, tribes and has "even learned the language from an Ork captive" (Codex: IG) Maybe he is close enough to an Ork to count? Anyway, Ork Nobz are probably quite close to Ogryns in most aspects- Strength, Toughness, intelligence etc.

G00fySmiley wrote:
yea ork fluff has some fun stuff like some of the deadliest rk weaponry being opened up and revealed to be a bunch of bolts rattling around in a fancy looking case.

Clearly the fanciness of the case determines the deadliness.

I do feel that a powerfist is simply too complicated for an ogryn. I did like the suggestion to give the unit some sort of rending option. How about for every 5 Ogryns one Ogryn may purchase a rending blade to be attached to the Ripper Gun. This grants that unit rending. This would save the ogryns from being totally screwed against walkers (after the charge) and give them a little bit of kick against everything else. Since you're obligated to buy quite a few ogryns in order to gain access i think a lower point cost would be in order. Say 10-15 points?

skarousis wrote:I do feel that a powerfist is simply too complicated for an ogryn. I did like the suggestion to give the unit some sort of rending option. How about for every 5 Ogryns one Ogryn may purchase a rending blade to be attached to the Ripper Gun. This grants that unit rending. This would save the ogryns from being totally screwed against walkers (after the charge) and give them a little bit of kick against everything else. Since you're obligated to buy quite a few ogryns in order to gain access i think a lower point cost would be in order. Say 10-15 points?

Unfortunately Rending really does nothing for an Ogryn unit. The benefit is minimal any way you mathhammer it. It would be helpful, sure, but Rending seems to be the solution to any lacklustre unit these days and I'm trying to avoid that.

If an Ork can use a PK, an Ogryn should be able to use a PF. That's my logic and I'm sticking to it!

DoW

There is a problem with your logic. Any Ork can pick up a power claw, for the IG either the Ogryn has to loot one from a dead soldier, or be given one. They probably can't loot Ork weapons without getting shot (by the commissar), and no one would equip an Ogryn with a power fist unless they were throwing them away.

Buttons wrote:There is a problem with your logic. Any Ork can pick up a power claw, for the IG either the Ogryn has to loot one from a dead soldier, or be given one. They probably can't loot Ork weapons without getting shot (by the commissar), and no one would equip an Ogryn with a power fist unless they were throwing them away.

Ogryn are ab-human, the rules for using xenos tech are less restrictive. Partly because no-one really cares if they die or not and partly because most leadership assumes they're too stupid to be corrupted. Loot ALL the PKs!

Fluff aside, a PK for the Bone 'Ead seemed to work reasonably well and didn't break the unit. Still only WS4 and I3 on the charge but it makes them a bit more threatening to terminators and vehicles, which I figured was the general idea. Now to model a baws Ogryn with a PK. Maybe a sentinel power loader arm?

DoW

The other issue with an ork powerklaw is that the powerklaw doesn't have to be functioning for that ork to use it. As long as the ork thinks that it works, it will work most of the time. An ogryn has to actually know how to use the powerfist and make it work for them.

DogOfWar: I was thinking about rending as a way for ogryns to hurt armor and get a few no save wounds in. What were you thinking they need?

It would be nice if they could get some equipment that would let them reroll 1's since a priest does nothing for them....