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is it a good buy i got some room in a list and i think it could work out pretty well

First of all, please write with something resembling proper spelling and grammar. It's one of the forum's rules, and people will take you seriously if they can actually understand what you're writing.

In my experience, Thunderfire Cannons are great. They're not for every target or every list, but they're amazing anti-horde weapons. The Techmarine crewing it lets you reinforce one ruin to become 3+ cover, so just stick that Thunderfire in said ruin and it's fairly durable. I get a lot of use out of the standard Strength 6 AP5 shells and the Strength 5 AP6 shells that ignore cover. Wiped out 15 Lootas in one round of shooting with the latter once, it was awesome.

A finecast one is coming out soon (you can order now) and you might want to wait for it if you dont have one. Ive heard the metal ones are a nightmare to assemble.

I've had TFCs used against my horde army and they did laughably little damage. They fire small blast templates, which means its really easy for your opponent to spread out enough to keep casualties down to 4 hits or fewer (and then you have to wound, etc.). In return, it's only as difficult to kill as a single space marine or doing anything (not even destroying) a single AV10 vehicle.

Low killing power, practically no durability, literally no mobility. Not even worth the FO slot, much less the points.

Plus, they're a gigantic pain to assemble, so I've been told.

I've heard and seen wonderful things about the TFC. Bodycount Guard, greentide orks, and tyranids will shiver in fear of it, and with proper deployment, the Techpriest can make it a very tough nut to crack.

I've seen them used well, but it's very luck dependent. Roll well to hit and you could wipe out a marine squad, but miss one or two shots and you'll not do much at all.

In the same boat as Ailaros on this. I ran hybrid footdar though.

They look awesome and probably have some use to them (I can think of them slowing assault units for one). I see them in more of a supporting role than a damage dealing one. Deploy them in cover with the Techmarine to bolster it as well, as it will add a decent amount to the survivability of an otherwise fragile unit.

You need 2 or 3 of the little beasties. 1 by itself for some reason seems prone to being only moderately effective. (I tend to get more deviation than usual if I only field one.) They are most useful if you can get the shots in before your opponent can disperse the members of his units. I've done ugly things to bugs and DE with a pair of TFCs and had amazing results with 3 against GK. (Keep making them take saves - lots of saves). Even if your opponent can disperse his models somewhat, TFCs seem to be a psychological weapon as well. After being on the wrong end of an effective barrage or two (or five), they seem to become fire magnets which means he's not shooting at things that are more dangerous. 100pts for a great gun plus a techmarine is a no-brainer for me. I don't run them all the time but I love them when I do.

Good vs clumped long fangs/devs in cover. Good vs people that just bailed out of a vehicle in cluster formation. Not good vs spaced opponents. Somewhat fragile and immobile.

Ailaros wrote:I've had TFCs used against my horde army and they did laughably little damage. They fire small blast templates, which means its really easy for your opponent to spread out enough to keep casualties down to 4 hits or fewer (and then you have to wound, etc.). In return, it's only as difficult to kill as a single space marine or doing anything (not even destroying) a single AV10 vehicle.

Low killing power, practically no durability, literally no mobility. Not even worth the FO slot, much less the points.

Plus, they're a gigantic pain to assemble, so I've been told.

While they do fire small blast templates, they fire four at a time. Those rack up hits pretty quickly. People also aren't generally used to spreading out against Marines since there are so few template weapons that see use in the army. I've gotten 15 hits in one turn against spread out units, and when units are packed really closely together I've gotten hits in the 20s.

Brother SRM wrote:Those rack up hits pretty quickly.

At one hit per shot, not really. Against dudes that just bailed out of a transport there's some real potential here, but given that they need LOS and they're really fragile (even in an enhanced piece of terrain), they're not going to last long against an opponent who is seriously threatened by them.

My maxim for the game of 40k is "if it's a threat it will be killed, if it's not it will be ignored". Some units suffer from this rule less than others, but TFCs fall squarely in. Either you're shooting it at a horde player, and he's not going to care about the anemic casualties it causes, or your opponent is going to be seriously threatened by it and instantly vaporise it turn 1 - a feat which doesn't require very much effort.

Glass cannons only really work when you can spam them, and you can only take 3 of them in a marine list, and they're not exactly cheap (so it's not really spam).

If you're consistently playing against players who can't figure out what displacement and long-range fire mean, then I guess it could do some casualties, but I don't think I'd ever take one in a seriously competitive list.

I love my TFC, and encourage people to believe the Internet-based misconception that they aren't good.

It's even funnier when you shred someone's MEQ army with them. The look on their face is just priceless.

Ailaros wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:Those rack up hits pretty quickly.

At one hit per shot, not really.

That would require you to only be getting one hit per shot. Not much chance of that.

Bookwrack wrote:That would require you to only be getting one hit per shot. Not much chance of that.

Quick go read page 12 of your rulebook. You see how it says that models can be up to 2" apart, and the unit is still incoherency? Now go look at your small blast template. Notice how it has a 1.5" radius?

Any player who knows these two facts can easily cause a small blast template to only hit one model per shot.

There are ways to force people to bunch up. Tank shock and wrecking transports comes immediately to mind.

And given terrain restraints and units overlapping, you'll very rarely find units with a full 2" between each model. Not everybody wants to take up 20 square inches of space with each tactical squad here. Mathematically it's possible, but in practice it's much harder.

Brother SRM wrote:And given terrain restraints and units overlapping, you'll very rarely find units with a full 2" between each model.

Sure, but you only need 1.5" between the models. Actually, you need less because the coherency gives you a half inch of "free" coherency because it's measured from anywhere on the base of the model. If a TFC is really a threat, then you're going to want that displacement, and thus displace. If it's not, you're not going to bother because it's going to do so little damage.

Monster Rain wrote:There are ways to force people to bunch up. Tank shock and wrecking transports comes immediately to mind.

The transport one, sure, but as mentioned, TFCs aren't very durable. You shouldnt' expect to get a LOT of rounds of shooting against newly dismounted squads.

As for tank shock, that's what meltaguns and death or glory is for. That's also what the shooting phase is for. Plus, once again, the earliest you can expect to get tank shocked is turn 2 or 3, and by that time you can easily have destroyed the TFC itself.

I play two armies in 40K, Orks (kan wall/tide) and IG (mech mets/tanks). The TFC scares me each time I go against it. It is usualy in ruins that are bolstered so, it is hard to eliminate due to a 3+ cover. Also, It seems to do enough damage to make my guys run or just wipe them out.

I have seen one guy use one very effectively against his opponents at the local store. The sub terrain round is one good way to slow down and hurt jump infantry (BA), SW on wolves, and plenty of other creepy units.

Without getting into any kind of theory hammer back and forth silliness, the fact that units can be bunched up by by tank shocking remains unchanged.

Ailaros wrote:Any player who knows these two facts can easily cause a small blast template to only hit one model per shot.

So you say. _Actual_ play on anything other than planet bowling ball fails to bear your claims out.

Subterranean Blast would mess up bike armies ALOT.
And mech. aswell

How would subterranean blast mess up mech armies? Or bike armies for that matter?

Monster Rain wrote: the fact that units can be bunched up by by tank shocking remains unchanged.

Nor is the fact that there are a lot of things you can do to stop being bunched up by a tank shock.

Bookwrack wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Any player who knows these two facts can easily cause a small blast template to only hit one model per shot.

So you say. _Actual_ play on anything other than planet bowling ball fails to bear your claims out.

Clearly you've never played against a person who was competent at displacement. You want to see what an average game against me looks like?







These pictures aren't from theory, they're from real games. All of these (of many other) examples show my army at 2" coherency. If your opponent can't figure out how to displace against TFCs, they're doing something very wrong.

motyak wrote:How would subterranean blast mess up mech armies? Or bike armies for that matter?

It makes them count as moving through difficult terrain, which means dangerous terrain checks for bikes and vehicles.

Ah. Cheers Ailaros.

They are a decent unit.

Subterrain shells can be very useful against mech, bikes, jump infantry. Fire it at a land raider and watch your opponent sweat

No-cover shells can be very useful against units such as pathfinders and camo-cloak scouts in a fortified ruin. It can also be absolutely brutal against 5+ save infantry that gets bunched up. I've killed 20 orks with one round of shooting with one.

S6 shells are good for putting lots of wounds on bunched units, the typical example is when you get some marines out of their vehicle.

They are glass cannons though. They are likely to bounce between total dissapointment and man-of-the-match

motyak wrote:How would subterranean blast mess up mech armies? Or bike armies for that matter?

Because, Difficult terrain would count as dangerous.

Ailaros wrote:

Monster Rain wrote: the fact that units can be bunched up by by tank shocking remains unchanged.

Nor is the fact that there are a lot of things you can do to stop being bunched up by a tank shock.

Right, but that's why we play the game, isn't it?

Oh, and I remembered that I've gotten some excellent TFC shots at units that have either assaulted a vehicle or rolled quite low on their consolidation move.

Ailaros wrote:These pictures aren't from theory, they're from real games. All of these (of many other) examples show my army at 2" coherency. If your opponent can't figure out how to displace against TFCs, they're doing something very wrong.

I've always been of the opinion that causing massive changes to someone's movement and deployment can be beneficial.

Ailaros wrote:These pictures aren't from theory, they're from real games. All of these (of many other) examples show my army at 2" coherency. If your opponent can't figure out how to displace against TFCs, they're doing something very wrong.

Yawn.

Gotcha - you're going for the 'your army only has one unit so look at everything my whole army can do that completely counters anything you say +1 infinity!' line of silly rules argument. Hope that works out for you.

Ailaros wrote:
pictures

I'm curious how it is that the three different boards you're playing on are always set up in a way that favours your style of army. Do you usually do the terrain by any chance?

Thunderfire cannons are bad because they are extremely vulnerable. That's realy their main problem. If your opponent considers them to be a threat then they will die with little effort in his first round of shooting.
If you like them for some reason then take a couple, 100 points and a lost heavy support slot will hardly cripple your army ( especialy since vanilla marines don't have any mandatory choices in that category )
but keep in mind that a Predator is generaly the better choice.