NBC (read to find out )

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Kasrkin229**

Nuclear Biological and Chemical , 3 things that People now days are always worried about interms of terrorism and equipment on APC's and IFVs which brings foward the question Does the imperial Guard Employ Nuclear Weapons ? The most similar launch system i could see to thsi would be a Deathstrike . But this also brings foward the question did the Imperuim ever Develop Nuclear Weapons ? i do not belive so , if they had many planets where orks are located would have whole contenints Glassed by the Nuclear wafare , i know there was an Atomic Purge on the Death Korps of Kreig but no where else have i seen referance to Nuclear Weapons . I know the Imperium also uses CHemical WEapons (Bane Wolf ect. ) but i have never seen the Usage of a Biological weapon ? just lookin for ideas

**razor5647**

The imperial guard would not have access to weapons of mass destruction (or planetary destruction in 40k terms), that falls under the jurisdiction of the inquisition and other more powerful imperial organizations.

And I doubt that the imperium has a need for biological weapons other than virus bombs. They work on pretty much everything biological and its almost instantaneous.

Other reasons that the IOM might not use nukes is that they irradiate and destroy the biosphere of planets. If that is there goal a virus bomb or other exterminutus tool would do the trick... If your going to destroy a planet might as well do it right

**Kasrkin229**

razor5647 wrote:The imperial guard would not have access to weapons of mass destruction (or planetary destruction in 40k terms), that falls under the jurisdiction of the inquisition and other more powerful imperial organizations.

And I doubt that the imperium has a need for biological weapons other than virus bombs. They work on pretty much everything biological and its almost instantaneous.

Other reasons that the IOM might not use nukes is that they irradiate and destroy the biosphere of planets. If that is there goal a virus bomb or other exterminutus tool would do the trick... If your going to destroy a planet might as well do it right

I agree with that but if imperial commanders didn't have access to nukes ( we are assuming the existed in large quanitys ) they Simply would be sluggin it out if they had them they would vaporize millions of tyranids ....... better to turn it into glass instantly then wait 6 months for an Exterminatus fleet

**razor5647**

It doesn't matter that guard commanders would be more effective. The IOM has a massive bureaucratic issue.. also the fact that only a select few organizations have access ensures that if another large scale rebellion occurs the IOM's most powerful weapons will not fall into rebel hands, similar to the reason space marine chapters are capped at 1000.

The IOM also is very reluctant to destroy planets as they are non renewable resources. if there is a tiny hope in hell the war against any race or renegade can be won conventionally no matter the cost they will take the chance. The IOM only call an exterminatus when there is absolutely no hope of a conventional victory.

**Kasrkin229**

I understand that part but when the have a matchs chance in a blizzard is when they SHOULD employ them to their fullest extent

**razor5647**

They do employ the full extent. They call other organizations like SM chapters and the inquisition if the planet is vital or if the conflict widens but they see nukes as a means to destroy the world not a conventional weapon.

The Guard will call more troops and conscript entire planets if the need is great enough. The imperium will fight on a world for decades if it has too as opposed to using such weapons.

They do use ICCM's (Deathstrikes) and orbital bombardments using plasma warheads which are about as close to a nukes as you need. but they are controlled by the Imperial Navy.

**Kasrkin229**

Now thati think is Dangerous ( i agree with you BTW ) the Navy could easy be corrupted or have a miss-interpretation in commands , When a Guard Col. ( or similar rank ) is boots on the ground he has far more judge or making a command decision then a Cpt. in a Navy starship sipping a margareta . Nuclear Weapons would be by far the most efficant weapons , resudel radiation would kill any tyranids ( untill they Adapted - they are a complex organism =more vunderable to radioactivity ) so you could potentialy save a planet by employing Nuclear weapons around a tyranid landign zone

**razor5647**

Sadly the IOM is not well known for its streamlined good decisions.
The redundancy for the Navy is that each ship has its own command structure and that makes corruption of a battle group difficult.

I'm not sure about tyranid vulnerability to radiation. Seeing as there ships are just large Tyranids and are able to endure the cosmic microwave that is interstellar travel. Not to mention standard nids have no problem fighting in a vacuumed environment similar to the moon. But when fighting nids everything deserves a try.

**Kasrkin229**

Its the Amount of Radiation , they may be resistant to the Background radaiation ( such that messes with EM ) but not the high levels immediatly after a blaste , roaches can live up to 10,000 rads because they are so simple in their build

**razor5647**

Space is not just the background radiation we are used to. In many cases the radiation from stars and solar flares is grater than many warheads going off. if nids where as susceptible to radiation than they would die in transit. and nids would likely not exist on space hulks.

I wonder what the radiation from warp - transition is like..
hmmm.. that ship glows

**Grey Templar**

Torpedos, the standard ordinance armament of Imperial Warships, have Fusion Warheads. In 40k the word Fusion has been replaced by the word Plasma in multiple places and is sometimes used interchangably.

Deathstrike missiles can be fitted with a variety of warheads, including Nuclear ones.

The thing is, Radiation isn't always going to be effective. It isn't as big a deal for Orks as they are able to withstand it because of their biological engineering(they can even survive in a vaccum for a period of time)

As such the only useful part of the Warhead would be the initial explosion. The issue is that the radiation left afterwards would be dangerous for the IG as they move forward to retake the ground.

If the Imperium doesn't want to move troops in afterwards they probably don't want the planet at all, in which case they would Exterminatus the place instead of nuking it.

The Imperium basically has more devestating weapons if they need a WMD. Orbital Bombardments would achieve the same result without the messy radiation, and if the radiation isn't a concern they are probably going to just blow up the planet.

and if you want Biological weapons, look up Virus Bombs here http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Virus_bombs

Its about as nasty as you can get for a Biological weapon.

**Kasrkin229**

Grey Templar wrote:Torpedos, the standard ordinance armament of Imperial Warships, have Fusion Warheads. In 40k the word Fusion has been replaced by the word Plasma in multiple places and is sometimes used interchangably.

Deathstrike missiles can be fitted with a variety of warheads, including Nuclear ones.

The thing is, Radiation isn't always going to be effective. It isn't as big a deal for Orks as they are able to withstand it because of their biological engineering(they can even survive in a vaccum for a period of time)

As such the only useful part of the Warhead would be the initial explosion. The issue is that the radiation left afterwards would be dangerous for the IG as they move forward to retake the ground.

If the Imperium doesn't want to move troops in afterwards they probably don't want the planet at all, in which case they would Exterminatus the place instead of nuking it.

The Imperium basically has more devestating weapons if they need a WMD. Orbital Bombardments would achieve the same result without the messy radiation, and if the radiation isn't a concern they are probably going to just blow up the planet.

Thank you very much , im not as versed in the WMD ( style ) weapons of the 40k universe mroe so with the ground weapons , So in short the Imperium Does imploy Nuclear Weapons just not in a Traditional scale
and if you want Biological weapons, look up Virus Bombs here http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Virus_bombs

Its about as nasty as you can get for a Biological weapon.

**DemetriDominov**

Agreed with what's been said, if you can bypass the bureaucracy, you can probably get a WMD. If you're a planetary lord, you probably already own a few.

**razor5647**

If I recall correctly the planetary govenor of Armageddon has a large stockpile of virus bombs that where found under the hives (left there by the initial colonists). they used some of them during the second war but stopped because the virus clouds kept drifting into the Imperial ranks.

So many gooified guardsmen

**Harriticus**

Nukes are used in 40k and particularly in civil wars stocks of nuclear weapons tend to be employed (such as Krieg). However nukes are considered "older" and less effective.

Imperial Deathstrikes utilize plasma warheads which have the explosive power of a nuke (probably more similar to the Tsar Bomba) but without the risk of radiation fallout. They also employ virus warheads for a similar effect, though the larger/more powerful virus bomb (which can wipe out planets) deployed from warships are more famous. The Imperium regularly employs chemical and biological weapons, they are not seen as taboo. Viruses were specifically engineered to try and fight the Tyranids/Orks and annihilate them as a race (but obviously to no avail).

Other kinds of WMD's include cyclonic torpedoes (planet-busters used by Space Marine warships for Exterminatus), atmospheric incendiary bombs (which sets a planets atmosphere on fire), and vortex warheads which suck everything in its radius into the Warp. The latter is probably the closest you get to a "taboo" weapon, its association with the Warp makes it rather sinister even for the Imperium.

As you can see, all of these things make nukes rather moot. Though again they still see use on more backwater worlds. A PDF which can't afford plasma warheads is likely to utilize nuclear warheads on its surface-to-orbit torpedoes for space defense for instance.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Codex: Imperial Guard describes the Deathstrike Missile as an ICBM with a Plasma Warhead, so more or less a Hydrogen Bomb. Now you know why people call IG OP.

**Buttons**

Yeah, the IG does have NBC weapons through their deathstrike missile launchers, which all fluff seems to indicate is purely under the control of the Imperial Guard, although getting some of the more powerful payloads like vortex missiles requires a lot of approval and the overwatch of a lord commissar.

**Kasrkin229**

Well my thought on it was if a Planet was engageing against tyranids , You are not going to be able to take it back , it's practically a Death World , So why not use Nukes as Area Denial Weapons ?

**Grey Templar**

The issue is, they arn't really good at area denial against anything that isn't human.

Sure, the first few Nids would have issues but the Hive Mind would quickly evolve a radiation resistant chiten.

Orks are just so dang tough and the same goes for Space Marines.

Eldar will have something to shield themselves, same for the Tau.

Only the actual explosion would be of any use.

**Kasrkin229**

But once they Evolve that Radiation resistant Chiten , then they become Weaker to las-fire , ( I,E look at Turians from Mass Effect m the look like they have an exoskeleton but it's pretty squishy ) Then the Evolution would flip flop , Las reisistant = nuke detonation ---- Radiation resistant = easier felled by Las guns , and we all know its humiliating to be killed by Just ONE lasgun

**Buttons**

Kasrkin229 wrote:But once they Evolve that Radiation resistant Chiten , then they become Weaker to las-fire , ( I,E look at Turians from Mass Effect m the look like they have an exoskeleton but it's pretty squishy ) Then the Evolution would flip flop , Las reisistant = nuke detonation ---- Radiation resistant = easier felled by Las guns , and we all know its humiliating to be killed by Just ONE lasgun

Except the two aren't mutually exclusive. Lead is a hard, dense metal that can resist gamma radiation, and would be of some use against gun fire (depending on thickness of course). I actually think radiation might seriously mess up the nids since they evolve so quickly and radiation does a good bit of damage to genetics in the long run.

**Kasrkin229**

Buttons wrote:
Kasrkin229 wrote:But once they Evolve that Radiation resistant Chiten , then they become Weaker to las-fire , ( I,E look at Turians from Mass Effect m the look like they have an exoskeleton but it's pretty squishy ) Then the Evolution would flip flop , Las reisistant = nuke detonation ---- Radiation resistant = easier felled by Las guns , and we all know its humiliating to be killed by Just ONE lasgun

Except the two aren't mutually exclusive. Lead is a hard, dense metal that can resist gamma radiation, and would be of some use against gun fire (depending on thickness of course). I actually think radiation might seriously mess up the nids since they evolve so quickly and radiation does a good bit of damage to genetics in the long run.

Lead is Extremely soft and is extremly heavy , impractical

**DogOfWar**

I thought I remember reading that nuclear weapons were specifically outlawed in the IoM back during the Age of Strife? I want to say it was in an old Codex:IG?

Not to say that plasma torpedoes, virus bombs, etc. aren't much more destructive, but there you go.

DoW

**Kasrkin229**

no , Nukes were not outlawed and are still in the circurt but having them produced would be difficult , but nukes are cheaper then plasma warheads ect

**DogOfWar**

Kasrkin229 wrote:no , Nukes were not outlawed and are still in the circurt but having them produced would be difficult , but nukes are cheaper then plasma warheads ect

Hmm, I'll have to check through my books, I could have sworn...

Might take me a while though, don't let me derail the discussion!

DoW

**Kasrkin229**

I don't think that Nukes were outlawed but were no longer produced .....far more effective against roaches

**DogOfWar**

Finally found it.

Imperial Armour V - The Siege of Vraks wrote:"During the Krieg civil war, the loyalists had attempted to destroy the rebels using atomic purging. The planet had been wrecked as the mushroom clouds of ancient and forbidden weaponry erupted over Krieg." (12-13)

Clearly forbidden, but it doesn't say by whom, and it's contradicted by (as others have mentioned) other instances of atomic weapons being used. Although these instances seem to come from the novels, rather than rulebooks.

I personally think one of the main reasons GW avoided using nuclear weapons in-game was for sensitivity issues. I wager they replaced nukes with things like virus bombs, plasma warheads, vortex missiles, etc. so that you can still have apocalyptic weaponry without it striking too close to home for certain cultures.

DoW

**Kasrkin229**

I stand corrected , ( BTW only Japan would have to feel at home ) But I Think 1 that its great that you actually looked for a Source thank you . I would think that the Inqusistion forbid it most likly

**DogOfWar**

No worries, but honestly I don't think you're really wrong at all. The fact that a bunch of the Black Library books talk about using nukes and that it's only mention in a single blurb on one page of an IA book is very telling!

I'm thinking they're really only 'forbidden' for anyone in the Imperium who doesn't have the get out of jail free card...

Plus Chaos wouldn't have any issues. Hell, radiation is probably good for daemons!

DoW

**thefarseerofnorthryde**

Kasrkin229 wrote:Nuclear Biological and Chemical , 3 things that People now days are always worried about interms of terrorism and equipment on APC's and IFVs which brings foward the question Does the imperial Guard Employ Nuclear Weapons ? The most similar launch system i could see to thsi would be a Deathstrike . But this also brings foward the question did the Imperuim ever Develop Nuclear Weapons ? i do not belive so , if they had many planets where orks are located would have whole contenints Glassed by the Nuclear wafare , i know there was an Atomic Purge on the Death Korps of Kreig but no where else have i seen referance to Nuclear Weapons . I know the Imperium also uses CHemical WEapons (Bane Wolf ect. ) but i have never seen the Usage of a Biological weapon ? just lookin for ideas

I believe exterminatus uses some sort of virus bomb, where it breaks down all organic forms and then ignites them, thus scouring the planet of all life, but that's all i know.