Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I can't find anything explitly saying it is. Apparently a White Dwarf said it would be "reasonable" to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Somewhat connected, what's to stop it from coming on the board and has not deep-striked, what's to stop its passengers from disembarking and moving/assaulting?

Joey wrote:I can't find anything explitly saying it is. Apparently a White Dwarf said it would be "reasonable" to do so.

Looking at the model, and comparing it to the valkyrie, I would use it as a Flyer in Apoc.

Joey wrote:Somewhat connected, what's to stop it from coming on the board and has not deep-striked, what's to stop its passengers from disembarking and moving/assaulting?

Nothing, as long as you do not move flat out.

You can move onto the board using combat or cruising speed, and you can disembark (but not move any further, as your vehicle has moved so the unit can only disembark) and assault, thanks to the Assault Vehicle rule.

There are no rules to actually allow it to be used as a Flyer, but, seeing as how something like 98% of Apocalypse is house-ruled anyways, making it a flier is very reasonable. And I would have no problem with people playing anything on a LOFB as a Flyer in Apoc.

as far as i know the storm raven maintains its current status as a fast skimmer in apoc. there is however a formation in the BA issue of white dwarf (think its like issue 373) that states the storm raven is counted as a flyer. now im not sure if the grey knights have a similar formation that includes the storm raven.

i had to do some research into this topic months ago and that single formation was the only reference i found to the storm raven being counted as a flyer

Somewhat related, where does it say the valkyrie/vendetta is a flyer? I have only read a brief mention from GW that it would be acceptable and in an old FW pdf.

it's called a Storm Raven Gunship which would imply that it can hover , a Cobra gunship hovers does it not ? i would treat it like IG valkyries but the flyer rule applies to Maraders , lightings and Thunderbolts

Kasrkin229 wrote:it's called a Storm Raven Gunship which would imply that it can hover , a Cobra gunship hovers does it not ?

An AC-130 doesn't.

'Gunship' isn't synonymous with 'can hover'... A Gunship in modern parlance is either a heavily armed attack helicoptor or a fixed wing aircraft with armaments mounted to the sides to fire at targets as they fly past or circle around.

The precise definition of the term 40000 years in the future has not yet been clarified, in which case I wouldn't be trying to establish rules based on the name of the craft.

insaniak wrote:

Kasrkin229 wrote:it's called a Storm Raven Gunship which would imply that it can hover , a Cobra gunship hovers does it not ?

An AC-130 doesn't.

'Gunship' isn't synonymous with 'can hover'... A Gunship in modern parlance is either a heavily armed attack helicoptor or a fixed wing aircraft with armaments mounted to the sides to fire at targets as they fly past or circle around.

The precise definition of the term 40000 years in the future has not yet been clarified, in which case I wouldn't be trying to establish rules based on the name of the craft.

I was being a Smart ass , but yes i am aware of that , considerabley you could assume that it could hover givin that in lore it can deploy a landraider (couldn't do a vietnam touch and go with a vehical )

Storm Raven drops troops and dreads, you're thinking of the thunderhawk.

hmmm even so , Warhammmer universe at it's finest , with Dreads it would have to decellerate extremely so if it didn't have a VTOL ability but .........hmm

Oh I agree with you that they have VTOL, that's what the directional thrusters on the wings and nose are all about.

I was just being pedantic about the flyers.

Well Reasonablely in books ect. it has to follow Valkyrie rules , becaue it does not require a dedicated launch platform to take off ( like a runway of launch system on a carrier ) the Only Craft that i am Aware require to follow the Flyer special rule are the Imperial Navy gaks ( thunderbolts , Lighting fighter and the Marauder variants ) and the Dark Elder Fighters i think that the Thunderhawk is a VTOL as well

GW stated in one of its Liber Apocalypta articles (you may need to login to the GW website to access the article) about the Valkyrie that it's "entirely appropriate" to play your Valkyries and Vendettas as Flyers with Hover Mode in Apocalypse.

To my knowledge, there's nothing similar for the Stormraven, but my gaming group has ruled that if Valks/Vends are flyers, then so are Stormravens. Just be aware that they are incredibly powerful as flyers (it has stronger rear armour than a damn Thunderhawk), so I'd only recommend allowing it if both sides definitely have flyers or have decent AA weaponry.

Happyjew wrote:There are no rules to actually allow it to be used as a Flyer, but, seeing as how something like 98% of Apocalypse is house-ruled anyways, making it a flier is very reasonable. And I would have no problem with people playing anything on a LOFB as a Flyer in Apoc.

Even if it meant they could deepstrike and have 10 power-weapon equipped death company run out and assault? Or 5 TH/SS termies?
Seems insane.

Joey wrote:

Happyjew wrote:There are no rules to actually allow it to be used as a Flyer, but, seeing as how something like 98% of Apocalypse is house-ruled anyways, making it a flier is very reasonable. And I would have no problem with people playing anything on a LOFB as a Flyer in Apoc.

Even if it meant they could deepstrike and have 10 power-weapon equipped death company run out and assault? Or 5 TH/SS termies?
Seems insane.

It is Apocalypse, the whole concept is insane.

You are worried about the Insanity of a Stormraven being a flyer, when you can field a Baneblade?

No Force Org chart makes for some insanity.

Well in a friendly apocolypse game where everything else is manticores and sternguard it's a bit...eh.
Maybe if we'd have discussed it beforehand rather than "yeah storm raven is definitely a flyer I read it in the rules". 6s to hit and immune to melta guns and can unload any unit into assault with no risk whatsoever. I can't see this ending well.

Joey wrote:

Happyjew wrote:There are no rules to actually allow it to be used as a Flyer, but, seeing as how something like 98% of Apocalypse is house-ruled anyways, making it a flier is very reasonable. And I would have no problem with people playing anything on a LOFB as a Flyer in Apoc.

Even if it meant they could deepstrike and have 10 power-weapon equipped death company run out and assault? Or 5 TH/SS termies?
Seems insane.

Deepstrike and passengers assault? Moving on from a board edge and having passengers assault is fine, but unless there is something different about Apoc, you can't do that from a deepstriking transport unless it or the unit coming out of it has a specific rule allowing them to.

"Q: Does a unit being transported by a vehicle that has
arrived by Deep Stike that turn also count as having
arrived by Deep Strike? (p95)
A: Yes."

It's not deep-striking, the flyer rules explicitly state that. And there's nothing to stop a flying unit from having troops disembark from it (despite being 50 foot in the air).

Joey wrote:It's not deep-striking, the flyer rules explicitly state that. And there's nothing to stop a flying unit from having troops disembark from it (despite being 50 foot in the air).

To be fair, you did say "Even if it meant they could deepstrike..."

Oh yeah I did, semantic feth-up on my part it's not deep-striking, doesn't scatter, and the units inside can assault.
All for free. Awesome.

insaniak wrote:
The precise definition of the term 40000 years in the future has not yet been clarified, in which case I wouldn't be trying to establish rules based on the name of the craft.

That is put so beautifully that it deserves to be repeated.

Joey wrote:It's not deep-striking, the flyer rules explicitly state that. And there's nothing to stop a flying unit from having troops disembark from it (despite being 50 foot in the air).

Might want to re-read the Flyer stuff. When a Flyer with Hover Mode comes in from reserves, you can either place it anywhere on the board like a regular Flyer, or move it on from the table edge like a normal Skimmer. Since you need to be in Hover Mode to let any (non-Jump Infantry) disembark, your troops won't be able to disembark on the same turn their Flyer drops from the sky. So, the SR will be forced to sit there fore a turn (though will be able to fire all of its weapons like a normal Flyer) and risk being shot at and destroyed, along with all of its cargo.

Apoc p94, 'Hover Mode'; p95, 'Flying Transports'.

Ah okay that's interesting.
It's still an essentially invulnerable gunship running around though.
I have also yet to see any actual evidence that it should be regarded as a flyer in apocolypse.

They recommend you use both Valks/Vendettas and Stormravens as flyers in Apocalypse (WD 353 & 373 US).

So I'm just going to have to put up with a twin-linked lascannon, twin-linked multi-melta and hurricane bolters having free reign over the battlefield, shooting at whatever they like and remaining imperveous to harm?
Can safely say this is the last apocolypse battle I'll ever play.

Joey wrote:So I'm just going to have to put up with a twin-linked lascannon, twin-linked multi-melta and hurricane bolters having free reign over the battlefield, shooting at whatever they like and remaining imperveous to harm?
Can safely say this is the last apocolypse battle I'll ever play.

It is really not all that powerful, and it is not "imperveous to harm" it is only Armor 12.

Also Apocalypse has crazier units than a flying stormraven, which is not all that powerful to tell you the truth. a TL Lascannon and a TL Multimelta are hardly OP for one vehicle.

Joey wrote:So I'm just going to have to put up with a twin-linked lascannon, twin-linked multi-melta and hurricane bolters having free reign over the battlefield, shooting at whatever they like and remaining imperveous to harm?
Can safely say this is the last apocolypse battle I'll ever play.

First of all, Apocalypse games are about having fun, so if something is totally ruining your day and keeping you from playing, bring it up to your friends and ask them to compromise with you to make things all good.

But more importantly, if you don't go overboard there are several things to consider:


1) Flyers do start the game in strategic reserve, so they'll miss one turn of shooting unless the player takes the strategic asset that allows them to bring stuff on in turn 1.

2) You can take the ack-ack asset which forces an enemy flyer to disengage (or cannot enter play that turn)...which when used on a squadron would presumably drive them all away for the turn.

3) There are plenty of anti-flyer weapons spread throughout all the armies. Simply find the best ones and field them 'counts-as' in your army.


Just like Super-heavies or Gargantuan Creatures, if both players have armies built to deal with them, its not a big deal, but if you don't just make a rule disallowing them or that you want to play with the Valks/Vendettas/Stormravens as standard skimmers.

Or just wait until 6th edition which will probably have new flyer rules in the main rulebook that will likely be less powerful than the current apoc flyer rules but a bit better than the current fast-skimmer rules.

DeathReaper wrote:

Joey wrote:So I'm just going to have to put up with a twin-linked lascannon, twin-linked multi-melta and hurricane bolters having free reign over the battlefield, shooting at whatever they like and remaining imperveous to harm?
Can safely say this is the last apocolypse battle I'll ever play.

It is really not all that powerful, and it is not "imperveous to harm" it is only Armor 12.

Also Apocalypse has crazier units than a flying stormraven, which is not all that powerful to tell you the truth. a TL Lascannon and a TL Multimelta are hardly OP for one vehicle.

It's impervious to harm when everything in my army is either meltagun or ordinance barage. My ally may have something though.

yakface wrote:

Joey wrote:So I'm just going to have to put up with a twin-linked lascannon, twin-linked multi-melta and hurricane bolters having free reign over the battlefield, shooting at whatever they like and remaining imperveous to harm?
Can safely say this is the last apocolypse battle I'll ever play.

First of all, Apocalypse games are about having fun, so if something is totally ruining your day and keeping you from playing, bring it up to your friends and ask them to compromise with you to make things all good.

But more importantly, if you don't go overboard there are several things to consider:


1) Flyers do start the game in strategic reserve, so they'll miss one turn of shooting unless the player takes the strategic asset that allows them to bring stuff on in turn 1.

2) You can take the ack-ack asset which forces an enemy flyer to disengage (or cannot enter play that turn)...which when used on a squadron would presumably drive them all away for the turn.

3) There are plenty of anti-flyer weapons spread throughout all the armies. Simply find the best ones and field them 'counts-as' in your army.


Just like Super-heavies or Gargantuan Creatures, if both players have armies built to deal with them, its not a big deal, but if you don't just make a rule disallowing them or that you want to play with the Valks/Vendettas/Stormravens as standard skimmers.

Or just wait until 6th edition which will probably have new flyer rules in the main rulebook that will likely be less powerful than the current apoc flyer rules but a bit better than the current fast-skimmer rules.

hmm I don't thing I'd be able to proxy enough hydras to take it down while maintaining current point level. I'm scraping along as it is. And we're not playing with assets so as to prevent the over-the-topness of apocolypse and go more for a huge game of 40k, with titans (which are actually pretty balanced, or seem it anyway).
Cheers for the advice anyway.

Joey wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Joey wrote:So I'm just going to have to put up with a twin-linked lascannon, twin-linked multi-melta and hurricane bolters having free reign over the battlefield, shooting at whatever they like and remaining imperveous to harm?
Can safely say this is the last apocolypse battle I'll ever play.

It is really not all that powerful, and it is not "imperveous to harm" it is only Armor 12.

Also Apocalypse has crazier units than a flying stormraven, which is not all that powerful to tell you the truth. a TL Lascannon and a TL Multimelta are hardly OP for one vehicle.

It's impervious to harm when everything in my army is either meltagun or ordinance barage. My ally may have something though.

Meltaguns can kill it, it is only AV 12.

But I get what you are saying.

Yak hit it in the head with this:

yakface wrote:Apocalypse games are about having fun, so if something is totally ruining your day and keeping you from playing, bring it up to your friends and ask them to compromise with you to make things all good.

It is not like Apoc games are super competitive.

DeathReaper wrote:

Joey wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

Joey wrote:So I'm just going to have to put up with a twin-linked lascannon, twin-linked multi-melta and hurricane bolters having free reign over the battlefield, shooting at whatever they like and remaining imperveous to harm?
Can safely say this is the last apocolypse battle I'll ever play.

It is really not all that powerful, and it is not "imperveous to harm" it is only Armor 12.

Also Apocalypse has crazier units than a flying stormraven, which is not all that powerful to tell you the truth. a TL Lascannon and a TL Multimelta are hardly OP for one vehicle.

It's impervious to harm when everything in my army is either meltagun or ordinance barage. My ally may have something though.

Meltaguns can kill it, it is only AV 12.

Anything shooting at it has its range reduced by 12", meaning meltaguns can't hit it.