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So just a few questions from a new player. When Lady Justice Inspire ability goes off that adds to the Cb of all "friendly models" is LJ included? We are guessing she does cause on the friendly models description on pg13 it fits the three requirements for friendly models ,but just wanted to make sure. Next question is when you get an ability(ex:beast companion or Pack leader) that activates a "target" does that target get an activation if it already activated? and when activated does it gain all its abilities (ex:(+1)melee expert (+2)multi headed)?

#1 Sorry, would need to check the wording on LJ...

#2: When gaining control of a piece (usually involving a WP duel), typically you just get one action, and, in a few cases, you get another activation (these usually state specifically that, if the model has gone before, it gains "reactivate" so you can use it on pieces that have already gone).

What it sounds like you're talking about, though, is one of a few abilities that tend to function as modified versions of the Companion ability, which function to allow you to effectively activate multiple models in some fashion before your opponent can react. If this case, all you're doing is choosing to activate in a different order, not gaining activations, so models can't reactivate.

Regardless of the situation, I believe, without exception, when something tells you to activate a piece, you get all printed abilities a piece has, as normal.

Thanks for the information SpiralingCadaver
Here is another question. Razorspine Rattler has a trigger called Onslaught that has two darkened symbols. So does that mean I need both or either? If both how do I do that with one card?
Ability Wild Heart:Hare ignores intervening models. Does this include enemy models and not provoke blocks?

I have no idea how Onslaught is supposed to triggered (yes, it requires both). I can only guess that some arcanist piece can grant one suit. I think one of the Totems can do this.

Hare looks like it's mostly so you can charge through your own guys and terrain. I believe that you'd still take blocks (otherwise, he could have just gotten flight, which is the same, except it ignores strikes other than models you start engaged with, or they could have given him push, which ignores all blocking strikes)

spiralingcadaver wrote:I have no idea how Onslaught is supposed to triggered (yes, it requires both). I can only guess that some arcanist piece can grant one suit. I think one of the Totems can do this.

In Arcanist totems that would be the Mobile Toolkit which grants a Tome. Don't know if there's a Outcast mercenary totem that grants one of those suits (it's not Student of Conflict, that one grants +1 Action).

Edit #1: Ah, here's how you use Onslaught. The Rattler has to cast Constrict successfully, which gives its Fangs strikes a Ram until the End Closing Phase. The Rattler has one chance (normally) to try a Fangs strike with the Ram, so you will need a high Mask in hand. This is not a trigger one can count on.

As for Lady J's ability:
Inspiring Swordplay: When this model kills an enemy model with a Greatsword Strike, all friendly models within 10” and LoS receive +2 Cb until the Start Closing Phase.

Based on the above wording and page 13 of the RM, I'd think that Lady J gets the benefit of her own ability, even though it seems counter-intuitive. "I'm so good I inspire myself!"

Thanks for the answers guys. Now if only I could win one =P currently 0-3 with Marcus vs. Lady Justice. My friend and I just started playing last week. We use my dining room table and use terrain from Descent from fantasy flight games and my sons Thomas the Tank Engine stuff(cranes, sodor works, watertower,etc)lol. Learning the rules(I have the rulebook) as best I can. We play 22 point games since his starter is worth 19 points and mine is 22points. Probably the most difficulty besides LJ is all his people are Hard to Kill and Slow to Die. That and paired up with Inspiring Swordplay and Fate(she never misses..ugh) It's challenging, but very fun.
Any help in tactics would be greatly appreciated.

Glad we could help!

Re: tactics, a few things just from that:

-soulstones are really valuable. I'd suggest that, when learning, you both have as many as possible: That would be 8-5 for the set you two are playing.

-marcus is considered one of the most difficult masters to learn, vs. Justice, who's pretty forgiving.

-I assume you're using scenarios? Most games focus on elimination/attrition, but if you play that with Malifaux, some masters will be very easily outmatched.

-have you read pullmyfinger? it's a good wiki that can help you with Marcus

-focus attacks and charges are important vs. hard to kill-- all you need to do is get to a neutral flip before you can swap cards. Sorry, can't help with Slow to Die...

You're welcome. I'd try to help, but I've never played as or against Marcus, nor seen him played. As for Lady J, seen her played, but as I had my own campaign game to play, didn't really see how she worked. Since she's Guild, my experience with them is that they get more bang for the buck. A 4 ss Guild figure would cost 6 or 7 ss in another faction. Their masters seem to be 20% better than masters from other factions. Admittedly this is a subjective judgement as no one locally has beat our Guild player. On the other hand, he will admit a number of Guild minions are undercosted for what they do.

And spiralingcadaver's advice on reading the pullmyfinger wiki is sound. Seek it out, young padawan.

By the way, Wyrd Miniatures is announcing a worldwide Malifaux campaign Friday, June 15, or rather, finally giving us the details on how it works. If interested, visit the official Malifaux forums.

I would argue that with the wording, Inspiring Swordplay should affect LadyJ.

However, in this thread ( http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?21481-Inspiring-Swordplay-Clarification ), a Henchman quite clearly states that she does not gain the benefits of Inspiring Swordplay. She doesn't really need the extra Cb anyway

I am currently trying to win a game with Marcus using my friends toyz while he travels round Thailand. Heres what I have found:

Marcus ABSOLUTELY has to act first, as Wild heart allows him to buff himself (ooh er!) for the remainder of the turn. Only if he is safe and/or another model needs to go first to accomplish an objective should Marcus not go first in your turn.

First action should always be Wild heart, the +2 def is very handy in certain situations, while the wk become chg helps to accomplish schemes.

If you are playing box sets only you could try 'alphaing' the Judge, as you can use soulstones and he can't to ensure you get control him for the turn, making him attack Lady J for you! But as Alpha is a (2) and you will need to use Feral (0) to turn him into a beast first, its going to leave Marcus standing still so try using it from a safeish position (and use Wild Heart to buff up his def)

Marcus wants lots of soulstones to a)keep him alive by adding to his def b) To Boost Alpha especially if you use it against a master c) to heal d) To try and steal initiative to buff himself up.

The Box set isnt the most helpful for Marcus, I think the models were intended for Myranda to shapeshift into. Look to get a blister of Night Terrors when you begin to expand, they are fast enough to keep up with Marcus, spirits with hard to kill, so pretty survivable for a 3ss model

As for Schemes - I would always go with the Arcanists' Sabotage, Marcus is fast enough to complete this by turn 2, sealing you 2 VPs. I'd never bother with bodyguard as Marcus is pretty squishy against the Melee monster of Malifaux. Depending on the scenario, holdout or breakthrough are good as your crew is fast enough to get out of your own deployment zone and into the opponents.

Hope this helps dude!

well another 2 losses. First game was 2 independent strategies. Claim Power for me and Reconnoitor for LJ. I announced assassinate as seemed to go well with claim power. He did round up and stake claim which he announced. this gave me 6ss cache to his 7ss. Middle of the board was a bridge which funneled his guys to me. I got alpha off and things looked promising as he only had LJ and two Death Marshals to my Marcus, Myranda, and Sabertooth. But then LJ got iniative and yeah I used a ss to reflip. LJ fated,charged and traded a severe as he was +for greatsword and charge,damage went to myranda as she was closest beast she died giving him Inspiring swordplay. Then melee experted marcus with a 7damage swing. reduced to 5 with ss prevent. marcus regen 1. I had no diamonds to alpha with so went bear first attack whiffed as he reposted with a king of diamonds cheat. I didnt ss as he could have ssed to gain a card as well. He had 2 ++ so got three cards and severed me killing me as this time with my last ss only got a weak prevent. my cerberus didnt last much longer as killed one deathmarshal to prevent reconnotoir but soon died after from wounds from inspired slow to die and the other deathmarshal.
the second game went worse I was only able to kill his judge when I used Myranda who was in Rattler form (1)serpent strike, then (0) reverted,(+1)melee experted,(1)shapeshift Sabertooth,(+2)Three headed. so with 4 attacks killed his judge who did
4 with slow to die because he was in aura range of a death marshal who had cast (1) finish the job. Partially was bad draws (ex my sabertootrh got 4 attacks on a death marshal and only did 3 dam). never got alpha off as never drew a high diamond in my hand. got close though as I drew off the the deck a 4 of diamonds but when I ss it I only got a 2.
Anyhow back to the drawing board.

Okay, so, from my experience fighting LJ, what you're lacking is a decent volume of ranged attacks (or melee attacks on disposable pieces).

Your minions should be able to go toe to toe with his, but Justice is a wrecking ball in melee: the best way I've found to deal with masters like Justice (highly offensive, easy to hit) is to basically pour attacks at them to slowly force them to use up their defensive abilities (control cards, soulstones). Justice can retaliate with masks, but only in melee (hence, ranged or disposable).

Desperate Mercs, convict gunslingers, or gunsmiths are all solid choices you have access to, regarding a decent volume of ranged attacks. Sorry, don't know beasts enough to suggest anything thematically appropriate.

well here is my other thought of list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/454115.page ironically I had thought of this before Marcus ,but my
friend and I are doing 'starter' wars and rasputina doesn't have any of those minions in her box.

It is rasputina however I use her Ice pillars and Harmless Hoarcat prides to block melee advances while the gunsmiths/rasputina range damage do the rest
,but as I am new to this game I haven't tested/used that master crew combo yet. (also do not have the models)

I am always curious to see what crews with the Arcanists ,especially Marcus, other people usually use.

A note on spells and pulses (which pertains to your initial Lady J question) - They do not affect the originating model unless specifically stated otherwise in the description (pg. 20 of the rules).

So, Lady J will never benefit from Inspiring Leadership, only the models surrounding her.

Hmm, I've never seen a Rasputina list without some form of Frozen Heart minis to use for that extended spell range. I don't want to be harsh, but I'm having trouble figuring out how exactly you'd use that list offensively...

whitespirit wrote:well here is my other thought of list http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/454115.page ironically I had thought of this before Marcus ,but my
friend and I are doing 'starter' wars and rasputina doesn't have any of those minions in her box.

It is rasputina however I use her Ice pillars and Harmless Hoarcat prides to block melee advances while the gunsmiths/rasputina range damage do the rest
,but as I am new to this game I haven't tested/used that master crew combo yet. (also do not have the models)

I am always curious to see what crews with the Arcanists ,especially Marcus, other people usually use.

I'm interested to see how the Ice Pillars and Hoarcat prides do, but at the same time... Harmless isn't hard to over come, it's a simple duel which can be cheated... And if I choose to ignore the harmless, I can focus on some of your other models...

whitespirit wrote:I announced assassinate as seemed to go well with claim power.

It's a bit annoying, but Contain Power (if that's what you were playing ) cannot be chosen as a scheme if you've copped Assassinate as a strategy.

Sounds like some bad luck you had too, keep at it though.

Its the other way around - If contain power is the strategy, Assassinate is the scheme which can not be picked. But LJ picked Assassinate as her scheme was Recon if i'm reading things right which means they played it right.

My usual Marcus list:

Marcus with 7ss cache
Jackalope
3 Night Terrors
Soulstone Miner
Gunsmith

EDIT - @ 35 i usually bung in either a high cost mini like Joss who is simple to use, but hits very hard, against making him beast allows heals. the spare ss goes into the cache. Or I bring Myranda and maybe a mole man or two.

Gunsmith gives the range and special ammo helps against most enemies, Soulstone miner can tunnel and appear where you need it to, and can be useful to block off lanes or as bait, as people will wait to see what you do with him - Overdrive for Melee Master will make a mess of weak troops and can net you some more soulstones. Turning it into a beast allows Marcus or the Jackalope to try heal it to keep it going.

It's a bit annoying, but Contain Power (if that's what you were playing ) cannot be chosen as a scheme if you've copped Assassinate as a strategy.

Didn't see that. thanks for the heads up.
well you both right and I played it wrong.

Thanks for the list Kogan.
Won today. We played two games. first was Shared Escape Survive on diagonal deployment. His schemes were Bodyguard and Raid. Mine were Eye for an Eye and Kill Protege(Judge)
He waited in his zone for me and my Razorspine and sabertooth went left and Myranda in an attempt to suicide kill the Judge went right. Things did not go well and only Marcus survived.
On his side only one death marshal died. He ended up getting his scheme VPs but not Strategy
In the next game was independent Strategies with me having claim jumper and him having Slaughter. He chose Raid and Bodyguard as those have been working well for him and I chose Sabotage.
I ran to my claim in some woods.LJ and Judge met me there and almost killed Marcus(thank goodness for preventive SS) after that I got a few good alphas off. I once grabbed LJ and killed the Judge
with her. Following that I used Sabertooth and Myranda to "Howl/Terror" combo and even Razorspine helped out by "terrifying" a Death Marshal because my opponent had run out of Cards in his hand.
With the extra turn I had with the rallying enemy I ran my crew back into the woods where my claim was. LJ couldnt reach Marcus but one shotted Myranda. LJ soon died afterwards to Marcus and his
trusty Sabertooth Allowing me a 2-0 victory

I tried posting pics but my attachments are not coming up for some reason
thanks for all the help guys

So are you only choosing one scheme and taking the extra ss?

So are you only choosing one scheme and taking the extra ss?

Not always but sometimes. That is legal right?

Another question we have. So let us say Model A has a 2" melee range and attacks Model B who only has a 1" melee range. Can Model B range attack Model A?

No, model B must move into melee range to attack, and is not allowed to charge since it is already in model A's melee range.

And yes, you can at all times decline to take a scheme for 2ss points, though over time you will probably find that schemes are far more important than those 2ss. I rarely take less than 2 schemes anymore.

I have found its always better to take both schemes, VPs win you the game after all, but each to their own!

S_Soul has it correct, B can't range attack, its a great way to shut down some models as they are forced to waste AP walking to melee or trying to disengage.

KoganStyle wrote:I have found its always better to take both schemes, VPs win you the game after all, but each to their own!

S_Soul has it correct, B can't range attack, its a great way to shut down some models as they are forced to waste AP walking to melee or trying to disengage.

Yup, as a rule of thumb, if you out-range a model in melee you should always move to position yourself so that you are just barely in range unless their is some advantage to doing otherwise. Models with 2 or 3" melee range can often times tie up multiple models. Plus, if they decide to try and hit you with a ranged anyways, more cards will be flipped and they have a much better chance of hitting their own guys. If all the models are Ht 2, they grant LoS blocking to each other which helps against non-ranged icon spells (must have LoS to cast a targeted spell).

so here are a few more questions from me and my friend.
Does Obscure or cover effect melee?
If firing into melee can you cheat the card that is drawn for your character when seeing who is the target of the range attack?
Can gunsmiths use their special rounds when using "Gunfighter" ability in melee?
When firing into melee hits an ally who draws the attackers and the defenders cards?
If Model A is attacking Model B and hits Model B ,but Model B chooses not to cheat his card though Model A does cheat his card to get a higher bonus etc.. Then can Model B cheat after Model A?

So me and my friend purchased some new models I got Malifaux Raptors,Jackalope and two Gunsmiths and he got two Guild Austringers nd drill sergeant
So his current list is
Lady Justice
Drill sergeant(totem)
Judge
3x Death Marshals
2x Guild Austringers

vs my list
Marcus
Jackalope(totem)
Mylanda
2x Gunsmiths
2x Malifaux Raptor
Sabertooth Cerberus

Our first game at 35ss I won with "planting evidence" individual strategy with Sabotage and Hold Out schemes both announced. He had "destroy evidence" individual strategy and Raid and Bodyguard(his two favorites)
was 6-2 as Markus ran the outer edge on the left side planting evidence while Myranda planted evidence on the right side both in his deployment zone. Myranda died but my Gunsmiths worked well in the Holdout scheme by delaying
1 Death Marshal, Judge, 2 Austringers and the Drill Sergeant.
Second game was a win for him we had Shared Claim Jump. My schemes were Bodyguard and assassinate and his were, you guessed it ,Bodyguar and Raid. His LJ onslaughted and killed markus and did 6 wounds to sabertooth. Eventually I Assassinated LJ making the score with me no models left in the end game also 6-2

whitespirit wrote:so here are a few more questions from me and my friend.
Does Obscure or cover effect melee?
If firing into melee can you cheat the card that is drawn for your character when seeing who is the target of the range attack?
Can gunsmiths use their special rounds when using "Gunfighter" ability in melee?
When firing into melee hits an ally who draws the attackers and the defenders cards?
If Model A is attacking Model B and hits Model B ,but Model B chooses not to cheat his card though Model A does cheat his card to get a higher bonus etc.. Then can Model B cheat after Model A?

1. No, only ranged attacks.
2. Don't know ... need to find out myself.
3. Yes.
4. The model's owner. So if your Gunsmith shoots Marcus, you flip both cards.
5. No. The player currently losing the duel has the first option to cheat. If they decline, then they lose the option for the rest of that specific duel.

Might want to look at Night Terrors. Although from the Resserrectionists, they are beasts so Marcus can hire them.

Thanks Ancestral Hamster for the help. Double Thumbs Up.
As you can tell really enjoying the game. as have played 9 times in a week and about to do another today
Also great and helpful community. Will defintely Pay It Forward when given the opportunity

Glad you're feeling the bite whitespirit! It's hard to stop once you've begun

Grats on the win too!

whitespirit wrote:If firing into melee can you cheat the card that is drawn for your character when seeing who is the target of the range attack?

No. As the rules state that you can only cheat on flips that the rules state you can, and the rules for firing into melee and cheating fate do not list firing into melee as a cheatable flip, the best that you can do is play the odds by having more enemy (especially Ht 3+) models then friendlies, and cheating in a low attack card from your hand if you do hit someone you'd rather not.

Ht 3 and above models take a negative twist to this flip. Also, don't forget that whoever is getting hit receives +1 Df for every other model that was flipped for.

KoganStyle wrote:Its the other way around - If contain power is the strategy, Assassinate is the scheme which can not be picked. But LJ picked Assassinate as her scheme was Recon if i'm reading things right which means they played it right.

Heheh whoops! Other way indeed. It was meant for Marcus, they both had the Claim Power strategy but he went for the Assassinate scheme too.

whitespirit wrote:Thanks Ancestral Hamster for the help. Double Thumbs Up.
As you can tell really enjoying the game. as have played 9 times in a week and about to do another today
Also great and helpful community. Will defintely Pay It Forward when given the opportunity

You're welcome. And paying it forward is good thing.

Since you want to play Raspy for area denial, take a look at Kaeris. She's a flying Arcanist Henchman with Casting Expert. Her flame pillars only last one turn, but they cause damage. If you only need to break LoS briefly, she might be a better choice than Raspy since she can keep up with an advance, thus providing cover to whatever model you want protected. I have bought her boxed set since it came with her, two Gunsmiths, and Fire Gamin. She's also a good sculpt.

Since when are you restricted to either Rasputina or Kaeris? I commonly run both.
Bring along a Silent One for giving Kaeris "Frozen Heart" and suddenly you have things that defy fluff explanation.