Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi Dakka,
This came up in a game today. I tank-shocked a squad of Necrons because I thought they looked lonely sitting on an objective all by themselves. The guy decided (after passing LD) that his lord was going to death or glory with his 2D6 armor pen. The lord chose death.
The death or glory rules say "If the attack fails to stop the vehicle, then the tank shock continues as normal, except that the brave glory seeker is crushed by the vehicle grinding over him - the model is removed, regardless of wounds, saves (invulnerable or not), or any other clever way of staying alive they can think of" (69).
Now, I think that re-animation protocols are a "clever way of staying alive" and the lord is a bug on my windshield, but I'm not 100% sure because of the whole standing up after dying. I didn't get a chance to read the re-animation rules, so if anyone knows them and has any idea how to solve this it would be great.

I think that the "any other clever way of staying alive that they can think of" about covers it.

Is he getting back up again?

If yes, he's staying alive...

DOG beats any way of not-dying you have.

This is exactly what I thought, and showed, but the guy wouldn't accept that. What I need is some proof based on what the Necron codex says.

It says in the codex "removed as a casualty", and the tank shock says "the model is removed". So it hinges on whether it was "removed as a casualty", or just plain old, "removed".
Also, reanimation protocols/ever living aren't about staying alive, more about, not staying dead...

not staying dead = staying alive

Tankshock kills you dead, no save, do not pass go, do not collect a furry weeble....

If you don't want to get dead, don't DOG.

The issue here is down to the old "removed from play as a casualties" gang vs the "removed from play" gang

Its simple you either play it that they are the same so the lord gets his EL, or you play it that their different and removed from play sends your lord to the magical in between casualty and not a casualty land from which there is no EL since in this in between land your lord ceases to exist other than to give kill points to your opponent

I believe the DoG rules are quite clear that there is no way to survive a failed DoG.

So in the spirit of that rule I would say the Lord doesn't get his EL roll.

BrotherVord wrote:I think that the "any other clever way of staying alive that they can think of" about covers it.

Lol this does indeed cover all bases its pretty much saying "the model is dead, no rules lawering is gonna help so dont try"

Formosa wrote:

BrotherVord wrote:I think that the "any other clever way of staying alive that they can think of" about covers it.

Lol this does indeed cover all bases its pretty much saying "the model is dead, no rules lawering is gonna help so dont try"

This.

Formosa wrote:

BrotherVord wrote:I think that the "any other clever way of staying alive that they can think of" about covers it.

Lol this does indeed cover all bases its pretty much saying "the model is dead, no rules lawering is gonna help so dont try"

Yeah, I play Necrons and its pretty cut and try. If you get run over by a Leman Russ, you're not coming back haha.

Or you are coming back repeatedly in it's treads and gears. Either way, you're done for the game.

Yeah, its not that he's actually irreperable. He's just damaged beyond the ability of his repair mechanisims to conduct a field repair. He needs to get hauled back to the Tomb World for a complete overhaul.

I could see a Necron being like Loki in The Avengers after Hulk smashes him into the ground like a rag doll. Run over, indented in the ground, wheezing, but then getting back up.

Yeah, really comes down to "removed from play" and "removed from play as a casualty" why doesn't GW ever clarify this stuff? It comes up often enough. It's like the old "Are Chariots affected by poison?" argument back in 6th ed WHFB....

great. now i want to go see avengers again, just for that scene.


sigh.


maybe i can find a gif of that for my sig


edit: found one : )

That was an awesome scene from that movie.

I wonder would you be able to use a ghost ark to add him back to the squad(assuming he was a regular lord attached to a warrior squad), he would clearly be dead beforehand and then regenerated in the following player turns.

I thought the ghost ark only allowed you to add warriors. Otherwise, what's to stop you (for example) from creating D3 Carnifexes?

the ghost ark only works on warriors, and if warriors exist in the squad. if no warriors remain, the ark cant target a cryptek or lord and add or replace the warriors.

DarthSpader wrote:the ghost ark only works on warriors, and if warriors exist in the squad. if no warriors remain, the ark cant target a cryptek or lord and add or replace the warriors.

It actually doesn't specify - it merely "adds D3 models to the unit"

If you have (or had, rather) a cryptek in the unit, don't see why you couldn't bring it back as well.

(though I stand to be corrected).

"At the start of each Necron Movement ohase, a Ghost Ark can expend energy to repair fallen Necrons. Nominate a unit of Necron Warriors within 6" (or Embarked on) the Ghost Ark and roll a D6. If the score is a 2 or more, add D3 models to the unit"

So yeah, I could see the line of thinking, but I would have to vote on no, you can't bring back the Cryptek or Necron Lord. However, it does only state unit, and not which models of that unit, and as we already know that attached crypteks / lords count as an upgraded character for the unit... So you might be able to lawyers that one...

RAW, you could add new models to the unit

RAI, no adding new units - but the possibility of returning a dead Court still stands.

If the rule had "add D3 models BACK...", it would be a lot easier, but the case for adding a Court model back into the unit still stands.

Basically, it needs to be FAQ'd.

You can use the Ghost Ark on a Warrior unit whose only surviving model is a Cryptek or Lord, because when they're attached at the beginning of the game to that unit, they become a part of that unit for all purposes. Just like if a Wolf Guard is the only surviving guy from a Grey Hunter pack, he's still scoring, and the unit does not give up a kill point, because the GH pack is a Troop unit, and he is a part of that unit for all purposes during the game.

What's not 100% clear is whether you could return another Cryptek or Lord (because you had attached two such models from two different Royal Courts at the beginning of the game). Actually, though, because it says "add d3" models, I think the implication is reasonably clear that it has to be Warriors. If it said "add back" I think the case would be stronger for allowing the second Cryptek or Lord to be revived.

Sweet. D3 Draigos it is!

DakkaHammer wrote:Hi Dakka,
This came up in a game today. I tank-shocked a squad of Necrons because I thought they looked lonely sitting on an objective all by themselves. The guy decided (after passing LD) that his lord was going to death or glory with his 2D6 armor pen. The lord chose death.
The death or glory rules say "If the attack fails to stop the vehicle, then the tank shock continues as normal, except that the brave glory seeker is crushed by the vehicle grinding over him - the model is removed, regardless of wounds, saves (invulnerable or not), or any other clever way of staying alive they can think of" (69).
Now, I think that re-animation protocols are a "clever way of staying alive" and the lord is a bug on my windshield, but I'm not 100% sure because of the whole standing up after dying. I didn't get a chance to read the re-animation rules, so if anyone knows them and has any idea how to solve this it would be great.

Wouldn’t this be a case of the tank is on on the spot the lord died so he cannot stand up even if he was allowed to take the test. Our local nids player likes to stand monster creatures on the dead Necrons so they cannot stand back up and auto fail the test takening them off the broad.

rigeld2 wrote:Sweet. D3 Draigos it is!

Amateur. I'm adding d3 Warlord Titans myself.

jwolf wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:Sweet. D3 Draigos it is!

Amateur. I'm adding d3 Warlord Titans myself.

Yea um, they can not be a part of a warrior unit...

Draigo can since he is an IC.

DeathReaper wrote:

jwolf wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:Sweet. D3 Draigos it is!

Amateur. I'm adding d3 Warlord Titans myself.

Yea um, they can not be a part of a warrior unit...

Draigo can since he is an IC.

He's also unique, so you can't have more than one. But thanks for playing the "I can totally say something even dumber than the stupid thing you said that was obviously a joke" game! Winnar!

And the rule lets you add models, it doesn't say what kind of models, or even that they could normally be part of the unit. I'm going to a Anne V and Kate Upton to my warrior unit next time. Odds that anyone will complain? 0.00%

jwolf wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

jwolf wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:Sweet. D3 Draigos it is!

Amateur. I'm adding d3 Warlord Titans myself.

Yea um, they can not be a part of a warrior unit...

Draigo can since he is an IC.

He's also unique, so you can't have more than one. But thanks for playing the "I can totally say something even dumber than the stupid thing you said that was obviously a joke" game! Winnar!

And the rule lets you add models, it doesn't say what kind of models, or even that they could normally be part of the unit. I'm going to a Anne V and Kate Upton to my warrior unit next time. Odds that anyone will complain? 0.00%

You can in Apoc....

It seems that you are the one that won the game there guy.

Pottsey wrote:Wouldn’t this be a case of the tank is on on the spot the lord died so he cannot stand up even if he was allowed to take the test. Our local nids player likes to stand monster creatures on the dead Necrons so they cannot stand back up and auto fail the test takening them off the broad.

That's unlikely, for one, in the example given he was part of a unit, so he can just resurrect anywhere in coherency, whether there is something on his Ever Living token or not.

Even if he isn't part of a unit he has 3 inches within which to resurrect, which means to block him you would have to stand directly on top of the marker with a base at least 2 inches in radius, that would require a base which was over 100mm around, the larger MCs on the oval bases do beat that in length at 120mm, but coming it at only 90mm across, would still allow the model to resurrect.

Basically, no single Nid is going to block a guy from resurrecting here, a Land Raider probably could.

Kharrak wrote:RAW, you could add new models to the unit

RAI, no adding new units - but the possibility of returning a dead Court still stands.

If the rule had "add D3 models BACK...", it would be a lot easier, but the case for adding a Court model back into the unit still stands.

Basically, it needs to be FAQ'd.

I feel like the intent would be just to add warrior models, but I was quite wrong on how the other recent necron FAQ would rule...

Most thought you could only add 1 cryptek to necron units but it turned out to be 2

Most believed that the res orb couldn't be used if the model equipped was dead from failing saves that same phase, but it does

Most didn't think a chronometron could be used to reroll imotekhs night fight roll, but you can


At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they specifically didn't mention to bring back "warrior models" because they intended for it to work on crypteks or attached IC's.

lol....?