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As I have failed to pick up the newest copy of White Dwarf, I don't know what the new rules entail for the space marines, and what may now be useless as a result. I have just finished my final army list when the new edition was announced, and I hope the changes don't screw everything up. Any way, please just give me a quick idea of whats going to change, I'll pick up the new rules eventually.

Vehicles will be less survivable in some respects, and more in others.

Vehicles now have a certain number of Hull Points. If they are reduced to 0 the vehicle is wrecked.

Glancing hits reduce your Hull points by 1.

Penetrating hits reduce Lull points by 1 and roll on the damage chart(1: Stunned, 2-3: Shaken, 4-5: Weapon Destroyed/Immobilized, 6: Explodes)

To give you an idea, Land Raiders have 4 hull points.

Stationary Vehicles have WS0(automatically hit) and moving vehicles has WS1 regardless of distance.


There is a new FoC.

Below 2k it is identical to the current one, with the addition of a 0-1 Fortifications slot.

Above 2k the FoC is as follows.

HQ: 2-4(yeah, minimum of 2)

Troops: 4-12(minimum of 4)

Elites: 0-6

FA: 0-6

HS: 0-6

Fortifications: 0-1


There are a bunch of new psychic powers in the main rule book for SMs so that is something to keep in mind.

Power Weapons now have 3 distinct types, that need to be modeled. Power Swords are AP3 in combat. Axes are AP2, give +1Str, and strike at I1. And Mauls(maces and other blunt weapons) are +2Str and AP4

Power Fists and Thunderhammers are AP2 in combat(along with double str and I1)

Chainfists are AP1 in combat

So what you can do now is something incredibely cheap
2 Libys 1 Captain 1 Special character
8 Tactical Squads O.O
4 Scout Squads
2 Stern Guard
1 Termie
2 Dread
1 Techmarine
2 Assualt Squads
1 Land Speeder squadron
1 Land Speeder tempest
1 scout bike squad
1 bike squad
2 devastator squads
2 predators
2 land raiders
It will be a massive battle to do that
Fortification means like something from planet strike.

Grey Templar wrote:

Power Weapons now have 3 distinct types, that need to be modeled. Power Swords are AP3 in combat. Axes are AP2, give +1Str, and strike at I1. And Mauls(maces and other blunt weapons) are +2Str and AP4

Chainfists are AP1 in combat

Out of curiosity, do you know what happened to Lightning Claws? If they keep their re-roll wounds or are only AP3 based. Also I have seen Cainfists at AP2 BUT I would expect them to be AP1.

Yeah, Fortifications are in the main rule book.

Things like Aegis Defense Line(+2 to cover saves) with optional gun emplacement upgrades and Fortress of Redeption(+3 to cover saves and only 30 points less then a Land Raider, with some extra guns to boot)



Edit: LCs are AP3, everything else is the same basically.

Grey Templar wrote:Vehicles will be less survivable in some respects, and more in others.

Vehicles now have a certain number of Hull Points. If they are reduced to 0 the vehicle is wrecked.

Glancing hits reduce your Hull points by 1.

Penetrating hits reduce Lull points by 1 and roll on the damage chart(1: Stunned, 2-3: Shaken, 4-5: Weapon Destroyed/Immobilized, 6: Explodes)

To give you an idea, Land Raiders have 4 hull points.

Stationary Vehicles have WS0(automatically hit) and moving vehicles has WS1 regardless of distance.


There is a new FoC.

Below 2k it is identical to the current one, with the addition of a 0-1 Fortifications slot.

Above 2k the FoC is as follows.

HQ: 2-4(yeah, minimum of 2)

Troops: 4-12(minimum of 4)

Elites: 0-6

FA: 0-6

HS: 0-6

Fortifications: 0-1


There are a bunch of new psychic powers in the main rule book for SMs so that is something to keep in mind.

Power Weapons now have 3 distinct types, that need to be modeled. Power Swords are AP3 in combat. Axes are AP2, give +1Str, and strike at I1. And Mauls(maces and other blunt weapons) are +2Str and AP4

Power Fists and Thunderhammers are AP2 in combat(along with double str and I1)

Chainfists are AP1 in combat

So its a few rules adjustments and a new FoC chart? honestly i kinda like the new power weapon rules.
Do you know of any points changes, or ranged weapon tweaks and the like?

I really need to ask, has relic blades been changed? are they still +2 str, and if so what is their ap?

And what about templates? I heard that ordinance can hit at full strength at anything within the full template and such.

Is ID still a factor? I heard from someplace that if it's double the model's toughness, then it's 2 wounds, and every extra strength is another wound.

(Say a orbital bombardment hits a marine. str 10 vs T 4 would mean 4 wounds for being 2 over strength 8)

Will fortifications be destroy-able?

and is there a minmum distance a flyer can move?

Tiger9gamer wrote:I really need to ask, has relic blades been changed? are they still +2 str, and if so what is their ap?

And what about templates? I heard that ordinance can hit at full strength at anything within the full template and such.

Is ID still a factor? I heard from someplace that if it's double the model's toughness, then it's 2 wounds, and every extra strength is another wound.

(Say a orbital bombardment hits a marine. str 10 vs T 4 would mean 4 wounds for being 2 over strength 8)

Will fortifications be destroy-able?

and is there a minmum distance a flyer can move?

All special weapons that are some sort of power weapon are AP3 but keep their other rules, except for fists, axes, and mauls.
so relic blades are +2 strength and AP3

ID is as last edition, except you get to keep your modifiers, so a nurgle Chaos lord can take str8 hits.

fortifications are destroyable, and when they are, almost everyone dies.

there is a minimum distance that flyers can move when in zoom mode. In hover, they are like skimmers.

The largest change I see is tactical squads are no longer a crappy unit.

Improvement to rapid fire makes their main weapon (the botgun) useful again.

Nerfing of cover to 5+ hurts xenos more than MEQ.

Embarked troops gain relentless. Now the free missile launcher/MM on a tac squad can fire out the access hatch of a rhino while the transport is moving. In objective base games I see a common tactic being placing the sergeant, special weapon, and heavy weapon in one half of a combat squad inside a rhino, and the other 5 can stay on foot to use their bolters. Only 2 bolters or 1 bolter+ special weapon can't fire each turn, half the squad is protected in a rhino, the heavy weapon can move and shoot, and the squad can make good use of 5 bolters + special weapon + heavy weapon every turn.

You can also move a vehicle at combat speed, disembark, and still assault. So the days of Rhino Rush are back.

Although this change effects other codices more then Vanilla Marines.



Tactical terminators and Honor Guard have become better with the change to power weapons. They have gained virtual immunity to most PW squads(although a simple modeling change will alter that)

Assault Marines are also better by virtue of getting an additional I10 attack when they charge.

Exergy wrote:

All special weapons that are some sort of power weapon are AP3 but keep their other rules, except for fists, axes, and mauls.
so relic blades are +2 strength and AP3

ID is as last edition, except you get to keep your modifiers, so a nurgle Chaos lord can take str8 hits.

fortifications are destroyable, and when they are, almost everyone dies.

there is a minimum distance that flyers can move when in zoom mode. In hover, they are like skimmers.

awwwww so vulkan cant touch terminators now? dang. and he could still die to a stray lascannon shot? crud.

welp, at least he can hurt some power armor gray knights. and it looks like my sergeant with a power axe just got upgraded to a sternguard sarge.

Power axes are useful (do they keep the +1 attack for the bolt pistol?) and will possibly replace fists for non-assault-specialist units.

Rapid fire is actually useful, bring able to engage the enemy further away than you run.

Yeah, Axes get +1A with pistols. Its what gives them an advantage over PFs.

So its either Str+1 at I1 with +1A or double str at I1 with no extra attack(unless you have 2)

Grey Templar wrote:You can also move a vehicle at combat speed, disembark, and still assault. So the days of Rhino Rush are back.

wrong, you cannot assault out of a vehicle, even if the vehicle remained stationary.

Do you have a book?

Someone with a book said this was true.

Grey Templar wrote:Do you have a book?

Someone with a book said this was true.

You can still only assault out of the vehicle if you have Assault Ramps / or are Open topped.

Otherwise you can't assault even if the vehicle remained stationary.

(that's what i've been reading in the rumor thread, at least.)

EDIT: Really, what this is doing to Marines is making the Flesh over Steel style of play even more attractive. With Side Armor being the largest target, your Vindicators and Predators can get Glanced to death fairly easily. Land Raiders will still be powerful, due to their high armor and Glances no longer shutting them down for a turn. Or worse, Immobilizing/Weapon Destroy them.

There's a rumor that Weapon Destroyed! results are now randomized, which is technically a buff to Tanks. And that Blast Templates are full strength even if the hole is off the vehicle, so that's a buff to Vindicators / Plasma Cannons / Whirlwinds (sort of).

Missile Launchers look like they are going to get an anti-air upgrade, so make sure to have a small budget of points to get them for your marines. We don't know yet if they'll cost points for Marines or be free or what, so, just be aware. This Edition has Flyers becoming more powerful.

Final question, and this is just because this is the first time ive had to switch editions. will there be a new rule book and codex i have to buy? or will there be some kinda update in a white dwarf, like the one for the flyers?

farrowking37 wrote:Final question, and this is just because this is the first time ive had to switch editions. will there be a new rule book and codex i have to buy? or will there be some kinda update in a white dwarf, like the one for the flyers?

There will eventually be FAQs available on Games Workshop's website that will outline any erratas/changes to the current codex. There will be a new Rulebook to purchase, as well as many rule changes.

When the FAQs/Erratas come out, expect pricing on Flakk Missiles, possible addition of various weapon types, and the clarification on Relic Blades and how they fall under the new rules.

Any new Vanilla Marine codex will be coming out after Chaos Space Marines / Dark Angels, so, it'll be at least year or so before you have to worry about purchasing a new codex.

The FAQs/Errata are already out.

SM has a very flexible codes so that it can get along with some buffs and nerfs.
A Stormtalon escorting a Landspeeder Storm is a very good combo; after all, flyers are very good.
Vindicators are better than ever since the whole template counts not just the hole in the centre.
Tactical Termies are an asset too since some armies like DE will have a hard time to overcome their 2+ save.
Tactical Marines will become a bit better as Schadenfreude pointed out.

And it is now legal for 2 combat squads(that were from the same unit) to embark on the same vehicle.

A very interesting option.

Relic Blades weren't mentioned in the FAQ as they are unusual Power Weapons, so they count as S6 (assuming base S4) and are AP3.

EDIT: Captains with Artificer armor, I need to play around with a build for them since I love Captains.

Thanks for clearing that up.

With the changes to outflank and reserves, Khan bike armies might have been buried.

No longer being able to assault on the turn we outflank + only being able to have half your army held in reserve is a huge detriment to the White Scar style.


Bikes did gain the Jink save and the Hammer of Wrath are big helps but lost 3+ cover from turbo boosting.

I'm anxious to see how all this plays out as I am a tried and true White Scar player, Khan's probably hitting the shelf as is his command squad. The Bike Captain with Artificer armor and Relic Blade become much more viable in my opinion.


Any other suggestions for bike armies would be a huge help!

Terminator Librarians are actually quite decent in combat now. Assuming you don't convert the GW model, he has 2 attacks at WS5 and they're S6. That's pretty good for his point cost. I'm going to be playing 500 point games today as it's for my FLGS's league.

Libbies seem to be decent at going after vehicles with str6. Although I will probably swap my TDA libby to have a Halberd/Axe. AP2 is kinda mandatory for trying to force weapon something.

There have been alot of references to the new rapid fire rules, what are they? I would buy the new rule book, but don't' have the 75$ to spend.

It's the same as before, except I believe you can move and fire at max distance. One shot at max at any time, or two at half at anytime. It's a big buff to Fire Warriors and the Special Ammo that gives 30 Range AP4 bolter shots.

Oh right, Telion has a Camo Cloak in addition to Stealth now, and Camo Cloaks have been changed, so now you can have Stealth and Camo Cloaks (5+ Cover Save even in the open) for the low low price of 227pts on a 10man Squad w/ a ML. (Since you can't buy a Camo Cloak for telion, since he already has one. Camo Cloaks only apply to the individual model now, as well, so...)

that is a nice new rule. glad they didn't change any points costs upon looking at the update page on Games Workshops site. Looks like my old army list shall still be used!

The biggest change is in how you have your models positioned. Models closest to the enemy are allocated unsaved wounds first.

Meaning characters and weapon upgrades can get killed if you arn't careful.

Marneus calgar now has 5 attacks, +1 for having 2 specialist weapons(2 power fists), hells yeah!.

TAC termies which I've always used despite their rules are pretty frikn' epic in 6th.

Sniper scouts with telion are now even better than they were.