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So I was looking over the new codex at the new alliance matrix section, and some of the alliances struck me as kind of odd.

So apparently Space Marines are on better terms with Tau than with Sisters of Battle and Black Templars would rather ally with Tau and Eldar than Sisters of Battle. Do Space Marines really treat the Sisters with that much hostility in the fluff?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 07:29:10


 
   
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The sisters of battle are viewed with a bit of distrust by much of the imperium. Black Templars especially would be distrustful of them, as they are constantly being investigated. Ots not that they like the Tau or Eldar more, they just like the Sisters less...
   
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Its discussed in a coupel of other threads as well

Some of the choices are not backed in the fluff at all and may either be a mistake (hopefully) or game balance (not convinced)

Sisters and Black Templars should be at least allies of convience - the Templars even have a Crusade banner honouring them! (p50 of their codex)

The Space Marines and Sisters consider each other worthy champions of the Imperium but there can be tensions - often depending on exactly how the individual Chapter views the Godhood of the Emperor - and how vocal they are about it.

Space Wolves are a much better candidate for the Desperate Allies - they would fight together but they are very different - but even they would be less of a problem than allying with Witches and other Xenos.

I see desperate allies in the main as - people who you normally go to war with but there is a bigger threat so for the moment we will fight aginst it and not each other - but when we have finished - there may be a reckoning.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:The sisters of battle are viewed with a bit of distrust by much of the imperium. Black Templars especially would be distrustful of them, as they are constantly being investigated. Ots not that they like the Tau or Eldar more, they just like the Sisters less...


There is no evidence and some to the contary that this is absolutely not the case. The Templars have fought side by side with the Sisters with no issues both in the Codex and in the BL novels. If you accept the BL fluff indeed they are very very similar in outlook and more importantly Faith

The BT are not under current investigation (or no more so than other Chapter of the Astartes) - the Codex makes this also clear - some members of the Inquisiton have expressed some concern about the size but their absolute and thus far untainted loyalty deflects these suspicions.

Many Space Marine Chapters really don't get on with each other - and this does sometimes flare up into actual conflict

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/07/06 08:03:45


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AFAIK, Space Marines respect and honor the Sisters, and vice versa.

Having trouble working together does not imply hostility. SoBs are the armed force of the Ecclesiarchy. More often than never, they'll be operating outside conventional military chains of command, answering to religious authorities only.

That might not be the case with Black Templars, though, but I think that's been dealt with in another thread recently.



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Agent_Tremolo wrote:AFAIK, Space Marines respect and honor the Sisters, and vice versa.

Having trouble working together does not imply hostility. SoBs are the armed force of the Ecclesiarchy. More often than never, they'll be operating outside conventional military chains of command, answering to religious authorities only.

That might not be the case with Black Templars, though, but I think that's been dealt with in another thread recently.


Agreed - BT/SOB I also discussed above There seems to be confusion in GW about the difference between "we don't like working with them (Allies of Convinience) and "Heretic Scum,Xenos, Witches" kill them on sight except under specific circumstances (Desperate Allies)

Ironically I don't have a BT army (yet - toying with them and Salamanders) but do have Space Wolves/Dark Angels and Ultramarines who can all ally just fine!

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Why are dark eldar and eldar battle brothers?

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I would tend to agree - Allies of Convience would make more sense.

Sadly Its not the most fluff sensative chart.............

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jonolikespie wrote:Why are dark eldar and eldar battle brothers?
Probably to account for the Corsair lists and allow people to use them "officially" in the absence of the allowance of Forgeworld book lists.

People take these lists too literally. It isn't that all Eldar and Dark Eldar are Battle Brothers, only that there are background supported instances that would cause them to be, and as such the game offers the opportunity to model them.

It's the same thing that the Sisters aren't just as likely to ally with Black Templars as they are with Necrons, it's that the Sisters are less likely to ally with those two factions than they are with Grey Knights or other Space Marines. The "Desperate Allies" category is huge by necessity since the only thing after it is "cannot ally".

Ally all the time, no hesitation.
Ally when we've got a common objective but only so long as it suits us.
Ally when we happen to be in the same place with the same objective.
Never Ally.

See how there's a ton of possibilities in that third category? Look at the commonly cited fluff examples. They're typically misunderstood. Blood Angels and Necrons are Desperate Allies. In that fluff story, they teamed up for a common goal, and then parted ways as soon as that goal (surviving) was accomplished. It isn't that the Blood Angels are ever going to seek out those Necrons and work with them again. Only that they were willing to do it. The same with the Black Templars allying with the Sisters in the Vinculus Crusade. The Black Templars met up with an Inquisitor (the two are Allies of Convenience) who was also allied with some Sisters (again, and Ally of Convenience for the Inquisitor). The Templars agreed to help the Inquisitor in his quest to kill some heretics. At some point, the Inquistor gets possessed (as Inquisitors seem to do on a regular basis, lol) and the Canoness and Marshal are forced to ally out of desperation to defeat him. After the fighting, they part ways, since without the Inquisitor and in the absence of any additional danger, they have no reason to be allies anymore.

But again, it's a perception issue. People take the religious themes of the two armies too seriously and avoid looking at the distinct differences in the two which would preclude them being ready allies. Even with the BL fluff, their methodologies are similar, but not identical. And the differences would make them antagonistic (though not hostile). When you really really believe something, you're going to be less likely to get along with the guys who think a little differently and are really really convinced they're right and you're just not getting it. I think many of you aren't familiar with what causes the Sunni and Shiite Muslims to be such bitter enemies at times. Look into it, it may open your eyes. The difference in doctrine is astoundingly minor, at least to an outsider. You'd look at it and say "Wow, they fight over that?" The Imperium is an even more dark and backwards place than Iraq, lol. Heck, if you need another example, we all like 40K, and yet the people who disagree with this interpretation of Sisters fluff are vehemently hostile about it. You'd think that since we both like the same game about little toy plastic soldiers we'd be best of friends no?

Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

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Space Marines and Orks are depserate allies? I would like to ask Pedro Kantor of the Crimsons Fist how he feels about that....... I am glad to see that the Black Templars are "come the apoc" with them.

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J99Pwrangler wrote:Space Marines and Orks are depserate allies? I would like to ask Pedro Kantor of the Crimsons Fist how he feels about that....... I am glad to see that the Black Templars are "come the apoc" with them.


This is due to freebooters, ork mercenary forces that fight for the highest bidder. Obviously if you wanted to have a fluff crimson fists force you would not have an ork allie but eldar rangers/ryans world pdf.

As already said some of the allies list is based on fluff or army flexability e.g. The IG can allie with chaos marines so that you can have a legal traitor guard force. At the end of the day however these are just rules and if you want a fluff army you will work within the defines of that piece of fluff.

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J99Pwrangler wrote:Space Marines and Orks are depserate allies? I would like to ask Pedro Kantor of the Crimsons Fist how he feels about that....... I am glad to see that the Black Templars are "come the apoc" with them.


*Sigh* Orks have mercenaries which some chapters may take advantage of. You are citing on example in the fluff where they don't, but that is one chapter and dose not indicate the actions of every space marine chapter in the galaxy.

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The other possibility that we seem to be missing is that some of these may be representative of changes to the fluff that haven't become clear yet due to lack of new Codexes. I had heard whispers that 6e is going to be characterizes by at least partially civil strife/breaking of bonds within the Imperium, the fact that some Space Marine chapters seem to be happier working with the Tau than the Inquisition.

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AnomanderRake wrote:The other possibility that we seem to be missing is that some of these may be representative of changes to the fluff that haven't become clear yet due to lack of new Codexes. I had heard whispers that 6e is going to be characterizes by at least partially civil strife/breaking of bonds within the Imperium, the fact that some Space Marine chapters seem to be happier working with the Tau than the Inquisition.


I said this when I saw the chart. However, no one would be buddies with Inquisition forces, except maybe Imperial Guard. It would be like cops willingly working with Internal Affairs. Space Wolves and Dark Angels have a 1000 year old rivalry, allies of convenience at least...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 15:29:39


 
   
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AnomanderRake wrote:The other possibility that we seem to be missing is that some of these may be representative of changes to the fluff that haven't become clear yet due to lack of new Codexes. I had heard whispers that 6e is going to be characterizes by at least partially civil strife/breaking of bonds within the Imperium, the fact that some Space Marine chapters seem to be happier working with the Tau than the Inquisition.

You know where you stand with an enemy like the Tau or Eldar. You know that at some point, when the battle is done, you'll go back to being enemies--but for the duration of the war, you're safe from overt betrayal. Things like troops being just a few seconds too late to reinforce a critical command bunker or the like might be possible but when it comes down to an apocalyptic situation where the Eldar and Astartes are brokering truces--it's in their best interest to keep each others' command staff intact.

By contrast, the Inquisition is not an entity with a standard methodology or even belief structure. It's not even really internally policed, the only thing keeping Inquisitors in check is sheer paranoia that other Inquisitors are doing the same thing they are.

Fact of the matter is that people are trying to see problems where there are none. The Inquisition having antagonistic relationships with the forces of the Imperium at large is nothing new. Depending upon the Inquisitor, they might be a renowned tactician who could command the respect of even the Astartes and deal with them as equals...or they might be a zealous warrior who throws lives away like nobody's business and has to resort to bullying tactics(i.e. "I'm an Inquisitor. Do as I say or else.") to get Guard commanders to go with their wishes.
   
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The chart just seems odd to me - at some points it seems to try to honor the fluff, at others it bends over backwards to allow allies that require a "special story" to make sense (Eldar not being Eldar but Corsairs, IG not being IG but traitors). At the same time, other combinations that would just need a "special story" are excluded on principle (IG not being IG but Genestealer cults). It's like someone at GW rolled a dice to determine these relationships.

For me, I find the comparison of Black Templars to Space Wolves especially puzzling when it comes to the SoB. With one force they share a history of joint ops with no apparent hostility whatsoever; as Mr. Morden pointed out the BT even honour the SoB on a battle banner, and during the Vinculus Crusade a Sororitas Canoness fought side by side with the BT Chapter Master in CCing a daemon. Oh, and the Black Templars rescued holy Ecclesiarchy relics from Armageddon. "Desperate Allies*"? Hah.
With the other force they share a lot of open mutual aversion; the SW being regarded as priest-murdering mutant heretics by the Ecclesiarchy, and the Ecclesiarchy being seen as an unwelcome arrogant interloper propagating a false faith by the SW. This aversion recently escalated into a full blown punitive expedition of the Orders Militant to Fenris itself. "Allies of Convenience**"? Hah.

*: Allies of Convenience - "The tides of war can often throw unlikely allies together, forcing them to work in common cause for a time. Such alliances seldom last for an entire battle, let alone a campaign, but that brief while can be sufficient for immediate needs."

**: Desperate Allies - "This category covers alliances forged only through the direst need, by partners whose only shared ground is the abhorrence they feel for one another. Indeed, when a Desperate Alliance occurs, it is almost certainly built on deception. Such alliances are prone to collapsing at the most inconvenient moments. Those that do go to term invariably end with the messy deaths of one party or another, either at the hands of their erstwhile allies, or outside forces who judge them traitor for their deeds.
At the start of your Movement phase, each of your units within 6" of a Desperate Ally must roll a d6 - on a roll of 1 that unit cannot move, shoot, run or assault that turn; they're too busy watching for betrayal."


That said, AnomanderRake has a point - maybe we will see some notable changes in the fluff for the future regarding certain armies. All I can say is, I really think the chart makes no sense in relation to what we know at this very moment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 16:09:43


 
   
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Lynata wrote:The chart just seems odd to me - at some points it seems to try to honor the fluff, at others it bends over backwards to allow allies that require a "special story" to make sense (Eldar not being Eldar but Corsairs, IG not being IG but traitors). At the same time, other combinations that would just need a "special story" are excluded on principle (IG not being IG but Genestealer cults). It's like someone at GW rolled a dice to determine these relationships.

For me, I find the comparison of Black Templars to Space Wolves especially puzzling when it comes to the SoB. With one force they share a history of joint ops with no apparent hostility whatsoever; as Mr. Morden pointed out the BT even honour the SoB on a battle banner, and during the Vinculus Crusade a Sororitas Canoness fought side by side with the BT Chapter Master in CCing a daemon. Oh, and the Black Templars rescued holy Ecclesiarchy relics from Armageddon. "Desperate Allies*"? Hah.

And the Ecclesiarchy, whom the Sisters of Battle serve, regard the Black Templars the same way they do the Space Wolves.

With the other force they share a lot of open mutual aversion; the SW being regarded as priest-murdering mutant heretics by the Ecclesiarchy, and the Ecclesiarchy being seen as an unwelcome arrogant interloper propagating a false faith by the SW. This aversion recently escalated into a full blown punitive expedition of the Orders Militant to Fenris itself. "Allies of Convenience**"? Hah.

Yeah...
That's not at all what happened. AT ALL.
You really need to go back and read the fluff regarding the Ecclesiarchy/Space Wolves incident. The Ecclesiarchy has many times gone out of their way to try to butcher the populace of Fenris as heretics.

Feth with a Chapter's recruiting world at your own peril. The Wolves keep Fenris at an artificial state of barbarism and blind to the Imperium at large because it provides them with the best possible recruiting pool.

Showing up and trying to make them venerate the Emperor and join the Ecclesiarchy is not going to end well, no matter how you spin it.
   
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To me, the allies chart is basically a joke. Tau and Space Marines are best friends? Eldar and Dark Eldar are old drinking buddies? GKs get along better with Necrons than Black Templars get along with Battle Sisters? Guard and Daemons are allies of convenience?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/07/06 16:49:26


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That's because Guard can be used to represent traitorous regiments of Guard or PDF. Honestly, the Guard should be able to ally with just about anyone because they can be used to represent just about anyone.

The Guard chart is probably the most "realistic" of them all. They don't ally with Tyranids because Tyranids eat everything. They aren't likely to ally with Dark Eldar because Dark Eldar are crazy, sadistic jerks. And they don't ally often with Necrons because Necrons are jerks who hate everything that lives.

DarkEldar/Eldar is to represent corsairs and other misfit outcasts. Corsairs and other disaffected Eldar pirates date back to Rogue Trader, and have been adjusted to include some Dark Eldar since the Dark Eldar were force-fed to the fluff in 3E. That's really no surprise, and it in no way means that all Dark Eldar are friends with all Eldar.

I am with you on the Tau/Space Marines thing. That's something I don't get and I kinda hope isn't some kind of terrible "surprise" that's in forthcoming fluff. Allies of Convenience I might be able to swallow, but Battle Brothers? O_o. The rumor about the Ultramarines becoming buddies with the Tau is this far unsubstantiated and I hope it stays that way. The Space Marines have been the galaxy's intolerant, remorseless jerks for 25 years. I don't like the idea that that fact might change.


Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

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Kanluwen wrote:And the Ecclesiarchy, whom the Sisters of Battle serve, regard the Black Templars the same way they do the Space Wolves.
Source?

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah... That's not at all what happened. AT ALL.
That's what it said in the Space Wolves Codex.

Kanluwen wrote:You really need to go back and read the fluff regarding the Ecclesiarchy/Space Wolves incident. The Ecclesiarchy has many times gone out of their way to try to butcher the populace of Fenris as heretics.
Again, source?

(and just in case you're referring to Bucharis, that was not "the Ecclesiarchy", just like his forces were not "the Imperial Guard" - which are apparently Battle Brothers to the SW)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 17:35:21


 
   
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Why should I bother providing a source?

You're just going to say "Well there is no canon!".
   
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Kanluwen wrote:Why should I bother providing a source?
You're just going to say "Well there is no canon!".
Ahh, so it was some Black Library novel not referenced in GW material at all. Gotcha.

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Lynata wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:Why should I bother providing a source?
You're just going to say "Well there is no canon!".
Ahh, so it was some Black Library novel not referenced in GW material at all. Gotcha.

Not at all. But you're the one who says that "Even GW's stuff isn't canon because Gav Thorpe says so!".

But really. Go back and reread the Space Wolves Codex. It makes it very clear that the Ecclesiarchy came in a confrontational manner, and then launched an assault upon Fenris as "retaliation" later.

There's also the 13th Black Crusade, where Sororitas opened fire on the 13th Company and accompanied an Ordo Hereticus force to capture them.
   
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Kanluwen wrote:Not at all. But you're the one who says that "Even GW's stuff isn't canon because Gav Thorpe says so!"
I have said so because it's the truth. I have also said that, regardless of the truth, I myself continue to adhere to studio material. So if there's something I am potentially missing, can you pretty please with a cherry on top go through the effort of pointing to a source like I do all the time, instead of playing sorehead and basically limiting your response to a "NO U!" and thinking this makes for a good argument?
Sheesh, just because you don't agree with the company's stance on the issue of canonicity. I don't like it either, so why are we even fighting?

Kanluwen wrote:But really. Go back and reread the Space Wolves Codex. It makes it very clear that the Ecclesiarchy came in a confrontational manner, and then launched an assault upon Fenris as "retaliation" later.
The "confrontational manner" involved a bunch of priests who came to say hello and investigate rumours of heresy within the Space Wolves Chapter. Care to explain how this qualifies as "going out of their way to butcher the populace of Fenris"? It wasn't even a fight, they were simply gunned down in front of the door.

Kanluwen wrote:There's also the 13th Black Crusade, where Sororitas opened fire on the 13th Company and accompanied an Ordo Hereticus force to capture them.
This, at least, is new information for once. Again: can you please point me towards a source so I can actually read up on it instead of being asked to rely on subjective posts? Because facts get warped around here all the time when they are once more conveyed falsely (latest example, someone in the "new 6E fluff" thread saying that Inquisitors are now apparently the captains of all Telepathicus Black Ships - which the new rulebook doesn't say at all as I recently found out after stumbling over the actual passage). Also, I'd just like all the details, because I love collecting any GW fluff about the Sisters, and this might be a new addition.

Look, I'm not even saying I don't believe the Sisters clashing with the SW during the 13th Black Crusade. I totally do, because it fits(!) my interpretation of their relationship. I would just like to know all the details and make sure I get it right. Should be understandable, no?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 18:12:27


 
   
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Remember that anything written in the codexes, or really anywhere else has bias slapped all over the place. Just look at the rulebook's paragraph on the Damoncles Gulf Crusade, versus the stories in the Tau codexes.
The one that confused me a bit is that Guard and Tau are allies of convenience rather than battle brothers, and space marines are battle brothers rather than allies of convenience. I think if anyone imperial would like the tau that much it would be the guard who are giving the Tau their planets in exchange for protection from the Imperium as opposed to the guys who negotiated to buy more time so they could kill the Tau later and not die, and want to "purge the unclean" all over the place.

EDIT:
Also, I feel a little sorry for all the people that used the grey knights to make a thousand-sons army, and now can't ally with actual Thousand sons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 18:18:45


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Lynata wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:But really. Go back and reread the Space Wolves Codex. It makes it very clear that the Ecclesiarchy came in a confrontational manner, and then launched an assault upon Fenris as "retaliation" later.
The "confrontational manner" involved a bunch of priests who came to say hello and investigate rumours of heresy within the Space Wolves Chapter. Care to explain how this qualifies as "going out of their way to butcher the populace of Fenris"? It wasn't even a fight, they were simply gunned down in front of the door.
Seems a bit disingenuous to suggest these were just innocent door to door Jehovah's Witnesses trying to pass out fliers. Did the Wolves overreact? Possibly. But this wasn't a social call. It was a bunch of smug Ecclessiarchy minions who figured their status would protect them, and didn't realize that the Space Wolves are hot tempered savages that aren't interested in taking any guff from agencies of the Imperium they only barely recognize as legitimate. After all, what does the Adeptus Ministorum do to populations that it finds guilty of heresy? It's not force Bible study. Their presence was a direct and overt threat towards the Space Wolves and their ten thousand year old heritage. Without Fenris, the Space Wolves chapter dies. Their gene seed doesn't work with other populations (apparently given the demise of their only successor). If someone shows up on your front lawn with a shotgun, you gun them down from your window. You don't invite them in first.

That situation was a Ecclessiarchy power play that spiraled out of control and turned into a blue on blue incident. Somebody in the Ministorum got too big for their britches and a bunch of hapless minions got murderized by fanged murder machines.


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DakkaHammer wrote:Also, I feel a little sorry for all the people that used the grey knights to make a thousand-sons army, and now can't ally with actual Thousand sons.
Why?

The Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons you'd try to approximate by using GKs aren't anything like the Chaos Thousand Sons...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 18:31:44


Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

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Hey, I'm not saying they didn't have it coming. The stuff the officials were doing there is Inquisition business.

But saying that a bunch of clerics visiting the Space Wolves is equal to the Ecclesiarchy having been engaged in campaigns of genocide against the locals in the past is just spinning the truth. Said locals didn't even have to do anything with the incident; the Ecclesiarchy went straight to the Chapter Fortress. There's also no need to put quotation marks around the Ministorum's retaliation, for it was an obvious act of retaliation, plain and simple. Trying to construct a history of the Ecclesiarchy attacking the people of Fenris again and again out of this one visit is just ... well, not right.

Either way, all of this only supports my argument that it should be the SW with whom the Sisters have the most issues.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/06 18:37:00


 
   
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The Space Wolves can't play well with anybody, it's true.

But game wise, Grey Hunters are so much better than Black Templars, so it works out.

If you want a fluff description, just assume that the Space Wolves are too dumb to actually remember anything. They're dogs. If you step on their tail, they'll bite you, but the next day, perhaps they'll lick your face if you bring a steak.

Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

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Veteran Sergeant wrote:
jonolikespie wrote:Why are dark eldar and eldar battle brothers?
Probably to account for the Corsair lists and allow people to use them "officially" in the absence of the allowance of Forgeworld book lists.

People take these lists too literally. It isn't that all Eldar and Dark Eldar are Battle Brothers, only that there are background supported instances that would cause them to be, and as such the game offers the opportunity to model them.

It's the same thing that the Sisters aren't just as likely to ally with Black Templars as they are with Necrons, it's that the Sisters are less likely to ally with those two factions than they are with Grey Knights or other Space Marines. The "Desperate Allies" category is huge by necessity since the only thing after it is "cannot ally".

Ally all the time, no hesitation.
Ally when we've got a common objective but only so long as it suits us.
Ally when we happen to be in the same place with the same objective.
Never Ally.

See how there's a ton of possibilities in that third category? Look at the commonly cited fluff examples. They're typically misunderstood. Blood Angels and Necrons are Desperate Allies. In that fluff story, they teamed up for a common goal, and then parted ways as soon as that goal (surviving) was accomplished. It isn't that the Blood Angels are ever going to seek out those Necrons and work with them again. Only that they were willing to do it. The same with the Black Templars allying with the Sisters in the Vinculus Crusade. The Black Templars met up with an Inquisitor (the two are Allies of Convenience) who was also allied with some Sisters (again, and Ally of Convenience for the Inquisitor). The Templars agreed to help the Inquisitor in his quest to kill some heretics. At some point, the Inquistor gets possessed (as Inquisitors seem to do on a regular basis, lol) and the Canoness and Marshal are forced to ally out of desperation to defeat him. After the fighting, they part ways, since without the Inquisitor and in the absence of any additional danger, they have no reason to be allies anymore.

But again, it's a perception issue. People take the religious themes of the two armies too seriously and avoid looking at the distinct differences in the two which would preclude them being ready allies. Even with the BL fluff, their methodologies are similar, but not identical. And the differences would make them antagonistic (though not hostile). When you really really believe something, you're going to be less likely to get along with the guys who think a little differently and are really really convinced they're right and you're just not getting it. I think many of you aren't familiar with what causes the Sunni and Shiite Muslims to be such bitter enemies at times. Look into it, it may open your eyes. The difference in doctrine is astoundingly minor, at least to an outsider. You'd look at it and say "Wow, they fight over that?" The Imperium is an even more dark and backwards place than Iraq, lol. Heck, if you need another example, we all like 40K, and yet the people who disagree with this interpretation of Sisters fluff are vehemently hostile about it. You'd think that since we both like the same game about little toy plastic soldiers we'd be best of friends no?


My main problem with all this is that the central part of your argument - " the Sisters aren't just as likely to ally with Black Templars as they are with Necrons, it's that the Sisters are less likely to ally with those two factions than they are with Grey Knights or other Space Marines"

There is nothng that I have seen in BL or the relevant Codexes that says this - in fact it is always the opposite - you can make up stuff to justify what seems to be a mistake by GW but that it is all there is - no basis in fluff / rules / background etc......... Yeah I am aware that people from the same basic faith can be bitter enemies but this is NOT what we haev in the BT and SOB - if there was a long history of beligerence between the two then hey that makes sense.

Your comparison with the Necrons and Blood Angels is so very flawed its untrue- these two forces were fighting EACH OTHER before the nids arrived - the Vinculus Crusade is an example of Imperial Forces acting TOGETher against a common threat. Totally different

However if you want to make up stuff to help justify the mistake thats up to you I guess.................


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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eldar and dark eldar as battle brothers make sense to me they may not be best of friends but overall they would rather fight with there own kind than ally with a race they see as inferior to them is how i see it.
   
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To me a more fluffy matrix for the Sisters would be:

Battle Brothers
Imperial Guard

Allies of Conveience
Codex Space Marines, Blood Angels, Black Templars, Grey Knights,

Desperate Allies
Eldar, Tau, Orks, Necrons, Space Wolves,

Come the Appocalypse
Dark Eldar, Tryanids, Chaos Daemons, Chaos Marines,


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
 
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