[Necron] Death & Despair Squad: best 2nd Royal Court member?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**skoffs**

So I'm a big fan of the infantry murdering D&D Squad

Spoiler:

Thing is, though, previously in 5th ed, they were kind of seen as a disposable suicide squad (once the unit they had marked were gone, they weren't quite as amazing anymore).
However, now that 6th has come along, Deathmarks aren't looking too shabby anymore.

SO, I'm trying to decide whether it's worth it to include a second character in the unit, in addition to the Despair-tek.

Here's the options:

-2nd Despair-tek : Double the wound output? Seems like a good idea. Plus, during Overwatch, that's be 2D3 auto-hits to go along with the sniper shots. Nothing in their right mind would assault this unit, if they had been marked.

-Storm-tek : Deep strike with this guy attached as well, and suddenly you have a Necron Swiss Army knife (can wipe out infantry OR vehicles anywhere on the table). Plus, with the Lightning Field upgrade, it would make the unit very unappealing to assault.

-Chrono-tek : While not as devastatingly damaging as the above two Harbinger choices, it would help mitigate deep strike scatter/mishapping. Plus, he be able to make that crucial "Oh man, I just need to kill that ONE GUY... the fuk, a ?!" wound REALLY count.

-Tremor-tek : Not such a great choice, in my opinion. Yeah, he can slow things down so you can shoot at them more, and I guess he can deny the assault, but... it just doesn't seem as good as the other options.

-Lance-tek : Even less of a good idea.

-Lord : Well, if you're serious about taking that unit out/making the Deathmarks more survivable, I guess a Lord would do it. Plus, being able to challenge anybody in combat only to have them slap themselves to death make for troll-tastic times.

-Overlord/IC : Man, you must REALLY be serious about taking out that deathstar if you wanna include one of these guys with your D&D squad!

-Destroyer Lord : the ultimate in guaranteed death, granting your entire until the ability to reroll 1's, via Preferred Enemy. (meaning the whole unit wounds on a 2+... AND NOW rerolls ones. that's practically auto-hit/auto-wound for the Despair-tek!)

So fellow 'Cronies, what would/do you use? (and why?)

**skoffs**

... really? nobody?

**DexKivuli**

I think it's best to run them lean... deathmarks and veiltek. More than that is really overkill, and using up the limited stock of crypteks that you can put elsewhere.

If anything, I think the double despairtek could work... it's not too expensive. But there's every possibility that it would just be overkill.

I'm firmly of the view that (aside from insurance) you don't want to 'overkill' a unit. Every extra shot that is wasted is a shot that could go eslewhere.

While a lot of those options focus on buffing the unit for assaults, they still die to small arms pretty easily, especially when they drop in the midst of enemy lines. A lord (even with an orb) isn't really going to change that.

Re the vehicle killing potential... I think a unit of deathmarks would be wasted. I'm interested to see how a royal court consisting of veiltek + 2x stormtek goes. Assuming the deepstrike lands inside 12", that's a 91% chance of destroying a 3 hull point vehicle, or a 75% chance of killing a 4 hull point vehicle EVERY TURN. All for 110 points.

**ShadarLogoth**

I've always felt Trazyn makes a good friend to Deathmarks. He makes them scoring, his Staff benefits greatly from their mark, and Phaeron makes them pretty nasty on the assault.

If you were going this route though I would say max size+Scythe Lord w/MSS/RO/SW. Make a little scoring deathstar out of the unit.

Kind of expensive though, but fun.

**tgf**

You forgot an option. I have started pairing a D-lord with my deathmarks out of a nightsythe rather than veil. I know you don't get the second royal court but with the changes to preferred enemy the d-lord makes all your 1's reroll to wound and hit. So when you shoot with the deathmarks you only miss on 2's and than you wound pretty much every hit. Its a bit of overkill but my opponents really dislike charging the d-lord.

**skoffs**

tgf wrote:You forgot an option. I have started pairing a D-lord with my deathmarks out of a nightsythe rather than veil.

Deathmarks, a Despair-tek AND Dlord in a Nightscythe? Man, that WOULD be overkill...

**Praxiss**

And all for 280 points (assumgin you give the lord SW and MSS).

Not too bad for a Deathstar unit.

Although after the intial hit they would lose the "wound on a 2+" bonus.

**skoffs**

OH MY F*CK

I just realized:
So a Dlord attached to a unit of Deathmarks+Despair-tek will give them all PE, right?
Against the HfH marked enemy, that unit will wound on a 2+, right?
however, if they roll a 1, because they now have PE, they would reroll that 1.
...
did we suddenly get a deathstar that auto-hits and now (practically) auto-wounds any one infantry unit in the game?

**Praxiss**

Looks that way. not sure on the auto-hit (only the flamer woudl do that).

Not forgetting that the sniper shots are also Rapid Fire, Pinning and Rending.

**skoffs**

The Despair-tek is EXACTLY who I'm talking about, here.
This is cheese on top of cheese.

I hereby dub this combo, "The Triple D"
(Death, Despair, Destroy)

**MadmanMSU**

I'll be the odd man out here and disagree.

I just don't see the appeal of deathmarks.

10 Deathmarks in rapid fire against 10 MEQ are only going to kill an average of 3 guys, even with a 2+ on the wound roll. Add in a Veiltek, and that goes up based on the number of flamer hits you get (let's say you play it conservative and get 4). So 7 guys killed. On average. That number goes down against TEQ, and up against GEQ. GEQ I'm not even remotely worried about as Necrons have a plethora of options to kill them. I wouldn't use it on TEQ either, given that a lot of TEQ are going to have 3++ or 4++ saves.

So that leaves MEQ. And the only way to improve efficiency is to drop right next to the targeted unit, increasing your odds of a mishap!

Is it really worth it to drop that many points (250 with a single Veiltek!) on one unit that is only going to kill one MEQ group (and maybe not even the whole unit)?

**BarBoBot**

Did sniper rifles lose rending this edition or something?

Deploying deathmarks from a night scythe lets you drop them 24" away and then they get a 6" move.

That should bring the unit within 12" of most places on the table.

With that in mind I just don't believe that 10 deathmarks shooting 20 shots that wound on 2+ and rend on 6's would do only 3 wounds.

**iGuy91**

I would say go with the chronotek and a veiltek, i see that as being the best balance of hitting power and point costs.

**MadmanMSU**

BarBoBot wrote:Did sniper rifles lose rending this edition or something?

Deploying deathmarks from a night scythe lets you drop them 24" away and then they get a 6" move.

That should bring the unit within 12" of most places on the table.

With that in mind I just don't believe that 10 deathmarks shooting 20 shots that wound on 2+ and rend on 6's would do only 3 wounds.

Just using some "back of the napkin" math here, but....

10 Deathmarks. 20 shots at rapid fire. 3+ to hit. 20 * .666 ~ 13.33

13.33 roll to wound on 2+. 13.33 * .833 ~11. Of those eleven that hit, slightly under 2 will be rending (1/6 chance), so lets just round to 2.

9 normal wounds against a 3+ armor save. 9 * .333 = 3.

So 3 normal wounds and 1 or 2 rends, depending, on average.

So, you will kill somewhere between 5 and 10 MEQ, depending on how risky you are with your Deep Strike.

Still worth it for 250 points (280 with 2 Veilteks, 350 with a Night Scythe)? Not in my opinion, given that they can only mark 1 unit. Maybe for some.

**BarBoBot**

But there is no deep strike involved...

The night scythe allows you to deploy after moving 24" with no penalty to their shooting. You deploy 2" and then move 6" giving you pin point deployment that covers most of the board.

This allows you to maximize the despairteks ap1 template. Honestly when you factor the template wounding on 2's, having 10 deathmarks is overkill.

5-7 deathmarks and a bare despairtek come in at 135-173 pts, and will crush MEQ and TEQ IMHO.

The 100 pts for the night scythe is a STEAL, and it will still be zooming around the board when the deathmarks are dead.

**MadmanMSU**

BarBoBot wrote:But there is no deep strike involved...

The night scythe allows you to deploy after moving 24" with no penalty to their shooting. You deploy 2" and then move 6" giving you pin point deployment that covers most of the board.

This allows you to maximize the despairteks ap1 template. Honestly when you factor the template wounding on 2's, having 10 deathmarks is overkill.

5-7 deathmarks and a bare despairtek come in at 135-173 pts, and will crush MEQ and TEQ IMHO.

If you include a NS and drop the Deathmarks to 5, you're still running at 255 points with 1 Veiltek. I disagree that they can take on a TEQ squad, but a MEQ, sure. 1 MEQ unit. Then what? Can't mark any more units.

Not to mention, what do you do if they aren't running any MEQ? Or what if they're only running MSU MEQ? Now you're dropping 255 pts to kill 5 marines. Kind of a waste.

For LESS points, I can have a Veiltek and 5 Necron Lords with Staffs of Light. Throw in a couple MSS to even the points up, and you have a unit that can teleport around the board, averages 7 MEQ kills in addition to whatever the Veiltek can do, and can MSS the crap out of people in CC. And they're not limited to only 1 marked unit.

**BarBoBot**

5 deathmarks and a bare despairtek is 125 pts. The 100 points for the night scythe is irrelevant.

Other armies would kill to have a 100 pt flyer with a tesla destructor that can pin point drop a unit of up to 15 models...

With the rends being ap2 and the template ap1, TEQ will fear being the target. 5++ isn't going to help much against it.

What if my opponent isn't running MEQ or TEQ? I still have a unit of rapid fire snipers with a template weapon... I will gladly field that against GEQ or horde armies, because the death and despair unit is a 125 pt suicide unit that packs a HUGE punch

**tgf**

skoffs wrote:The Despair-tek is EXACTLY who I'm talking about, here.
This is cheese on top of cheese.

I hereby dub this combo, "The Triple D"
(Death, Despair, Destroy)

Thats why i mentioned it. I have actually never had anything survie it to charge me.

**Tumbleweed**

Thing is, fundamentally this squad or any variation on it is a waste as mad said...IF YOU ARE USING IT ON LESS THAN TEQ/DEATHSTARS. At 285 points (scythe, 2 despairteks, 5 marks) which is the most killy for points setup you should be able to land your squad in a position to flame minimum 4-5 terms x 2. Along with rapidfire rifles I'd consider myself robbed if after ++ saves there wasn't 200 points of corpses left on the ground. Your opponent is now left with a pita tesla platform on the board, a pita MEQ squad he won't want to charge and the bitter taste that his uber CC unit with a 2+3++3W IC at the front to tank damage was out maneuvered. Well that's how I'd hope things would play out.

And a Triach Stalker putting twinlinked on the target unit is a more efficent way of letting you re-roll those flamer 1's

**BarBoBot**

5 lords with staff of light and a veiltek is garbage compared to the deathmarks coming out of a night scythe.

Your going to deepstrike a unit with a 12" shooting range? How often will you mishap? How often will your scatter take you out of range?

The night scythe lets you disembark anywhere after moving 24" with no scatter, and no mishap the same turn it arrives from reserve.

Your opponent then kills your 125 pt suicide unit and you still have a flyer zooming around.

Your lords with despairtek will get shot off the board just as easily, but it's LESS likely to achieve the results that the death and despair combo has coming from a scythe because your unit will scatter 2/3 of the time, and with a 12" range, they won't have to scatter far to be completely out of range... That's if they don't scatter right into the enemy unit...

No one is going to charge your unit of lords with MSS... They will kill it quite easily with shooting.

**HawaiiMatt**

I'd go all out.
2 Crypteks with Dispair, 1-2 lords with 2+ armor 3+ invul, and an Phaeron w/res orb, also with 2+ armor and 3+ invul.
In a full 10 man unit.
In the flying transport.

Now you get 30 rending shots at 12", 20 at 24", and 2 AP1 templates (useful for over-watch).
You've got a a ton of firepower even against unit's that aren't marked, and 2-3 models with 2+/3++ to put on point and absorb fire, who will then get back up on a 4+.

770 points, more if you pick up some mind scarabs.
Totally worth it.

-Matt

**tgf**

30 shots?

**ShadarLogoth**

MadmanMSU wrote:
10 Deathmarks. 20 shots at rapid fire. 3+ to hit. 20 * .666 ~ 13.33

13.33 roll to wound on 2+. 13.33 * .833 ~11. Of those eleven that hit, slightly under 2 will be rending (1/6 chance), so lets just round to 2.

(1/6)th of the to-wound rolls rend, not actual wounds, so it's actualy slightly over 2.

Also, another 6th edition aspect you are failing to take into account is precision strikes. So even if it's not your marked target, and you don't have a veiltek (or he's not in range), you have a pretty good chance of knocking out the special weapons. Now it's a unit full of bolters (aka a unit full of fail

).

**tgf**

The most efficient build if you are running two overlords is dual dispairtek's 5 marks and a night sythe. 255 points and it will kill just about anything and everything in this game dead as fried chicken. I have had a slightly larger squad take out a 500 point tyrant and his guard. The tyrant only had to fail two saves after the ap1 and rend wounds were allocated. The really cool part
is the nightsythe can shoot its distructer the turn it drops them off.

It costs you 1 elite squad and costs only about 70 points more than a naked tac squad, or 20 points less if you don't factor in the nightsythe.

**Praxiss**

I would use it to kill a specific unit that i didn't like the look of..Sternguard or Sanguinary Guard for example.

I plan on trying it with a unit of 5 Deathmarks and see how it performs.

**Kreedos**

I didn't see it mentioned but you can't deep strike crypteks, they are void of the deep strike rules. However you could deep strike a Destroyer lord with your Deathmarks. This would AVG a total of 8-10 unsaved wounds each shooting phase against a marked target.

**ShadarLogoth**

Kreedos wrote:I didn't see it mentioned but you can't deep strike crypteks, they are void of the deep strike rules. However you could deep strike a Destroyer lord with your Deathmarks. This would AVG a total of 8-10 unsaved wounds each shooting phase against a marked target.

Veil of Darkness is a piece gear for the Harbinger of De...something...brain not working right now. The guy with the S 8 vsLD AP 1 template. It's basically the same Veil 3rd edition Lords could take (minus the jumping out of CC).

**Moosatronic Warrior**

I have been testing Death Marks in a few different configurations in 6th.

The only cryptek I would add would be a second Despair-tek but that would be overkill a lot of the time.

I cant decide between 5xDm + D-tek + veil= 155
or 5xDm + D-tek + Scythe = 225.

Both have been frighteningly effective at wiping out whole units and when they dont get a whole unit they are usually positioned so that whats left are just plebs.

The NS has the advantage of precision placement but will have trouble in end-to-end deployment. The veil scatters but can teleport again in the unlikley event that the DMs survive.

I have also tried 5 plain DMs and while they can still contribute they seem wasted without the despair-tek.

**tgf**

I look at the death marks as a 95 point upgrade to the dispairtek that lets him wound on a 2+.

**skoffs**

tgf wrote:I look at the death marks as a 95 point upgrade to the dispairtek that lets him wound on a 2+.

possibly the best summary ever given.