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Hey guys I had posted a week or so ago about my footslogging terminator list, I played two games with it against my ork friend who fielded all bikers. First game with my older list, with the libby and the deepstriking terminator squad and strike squad resulted a horrible lose to hundreds of biker assault 3 shooting attacks, and 16 models failing to show up before I got tabled.

2nd game was different story, I changed my list up and got a Grandmaster and a strike squad. Added onto the old list, He changed his list to some more mech. I won the game by tabling him. I had 1 model on the table, dready in all of his glory. Heres the list I played against him with the 2nd time.

HQ:

Grandmaster: 195 points
MC sword, psykotroke nad

Troops:

Strike Squad: 110 points
psycannon

10 man Terminator Squad: 475 points
2 psycannons, MC-Hammer, 2 hammers, 2 swords, 5 halberds, psybolt ammo

10 man Terminator Squad: 475 points
2 psycannons, MC-Hammer, 2 hammers, 2 swords, 5 halberds, psybolt ammo

10 man Terminator Squad: 475 points
2 psycannons, MC-Hammer, 2 hammers, 2 swords, 5 halberds, psybolt ammo

Heavy Support:

Dreadnought: 135 pointa
2 TL- Autocannons, psybolt ammo

Dreadnought: 135 pointa
2 TL- Autocannons, psybolt ammo

Grand Master's rule wuth psychotroke grenades and a master crafted force sword. With the sword you get a 3+ inv in close combat, a lot better than the halberd, which btw isn't needed as the G.M has a high initiative.

The rest seems alright. I would only squeeze in a min squad of Strike Knights so you can claim objectives.

mercer wrote:I would only squeeze in a min squad of Strike Knights so you can claim objectives.

GK Terminators are troop choice. Is there something I am missing?

You are missing that the Terminators are in combat, taking names and also getting their face beat in. A dedicated close combat unit isn't meant to hold objectives, just grab them last minute, if possible. So a Strike Squad, which could be hidden and not targeted would be great.

Word.

The problem with terminators though is, they need to get into combat, and quickly, otherwise you're better off with taking Strike Squads, since Strike Squads outshoot Terminators. 40 GKSS and 10 Terminators is probably stronger than 30 Terminators.

Look at the list now, better?


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Joe Mama wrote:Word.

The problem with terminators though is, they need to get into combat, and quickly, otherwise you're better off with taking Strike Squads, since Strike Squads outshoot Terminators. 40 GKSS and 10 Terminators is probably stronger than 30 Terminators.

From what I've seen when GK players go against each other, It take 20 GKSS to kill 10 Terminators, because terminators are so durable. Since power weapons are AP3 those strike squads will get torn a part in CC. I have tried both, and Terminators work better.

Eh? Terminators are worse at shooting as the equivalent points of Strike Squad guys. 40 GKSS is 32 stormbolters and 8 psycannons. 20 GKT is 16 stormbolters and only 4 psycannons. Terminators are durable sure, but they cost twice as much, so that's a wash. They are really only better if you can get into CC quickly.

Most of your battles won't be GK against other GK. Unless you have really weird meta. GKSS can put down a lot more firepower. Yes, they are worse in CC, but they are better in shooting. And it is easier to shoot things down than it is to catch things and get into CC with them.

Joe Mama wrote:Eh? Terminators are worse at shooting as the equivalent points of Strike Squad guys. 40 GKSS is 32 stormbolters and 8 psycannons. 20 GKT is 16 stormbolters and only 4 psycannons. Terminators are durable sure, but they cost twice as much, so that's a wash. They are really only better if you can get into CC quickly.

Most of your battles won't be GK against other GK. Unless you have really weird meta. GKSS can put down a lot more firepower. Yes, they are worse in CC, but they are better in shooting. And it is easier to shoot things down than it is to catch things and get into CC with them.

Most of the people in my area play Orks, Imperial Guard, Space Wolves and Vanilla marines, The way I get my terminators in CC is I roll for grand strategy and I usually get a nice roll. I make 2/3 squads have scout. So they get to deploy upwards, making them get closer to the enemy. I get my army into combat pretty quick, I don't really like GKSS really because I don't like have a bunch of power armor marines running around. Now 30 terminators, looks sick when you play em down. I know this army can play at competitive level. Without a doubt, people have told me. Also, PA GKs are not my playstyle, either. Thats why I went termmies.

Stormtrooper520 wrote: The way I get my terminators in CC is I roll for grand strategy and I usually get a nice roll. .

Man, I wish I had the kind of luck to be able to say that. I'm legendary in my circles for how bad I roll. In fantasy I played skaven. One time I killed my warlord in my first round before the enemy had done anything from eating one piece of warpstone. It made 80% of my army run off the table. My opponent hadn't even had his first turn.

Purifier wrote:

Stormtrooper520 wrote: The way I get my terminators in CC is I roll for grand strategy and I usually get a nice roll. .

Man, I wish I had the kind of luck to be able to say that. I'm legendary in my circles for how bad I roll. In fantasy I played skaven. One time I killed my warlord in my first round before the enemy had done anything from eating one piece of warpstone. It made 80% of my army run off the table. My opponent hadn't even had his first turn.

That's when you get a new pair of dice my friend.

Joe Mama wrote:Word.

The problem with terminators though is, they need to get into combat, and quickly, otherwise you're better off with taking Strike Squads, since Strike Squads outshoot Terminators. 40 GKSS and 10 Terminators is probably stronger than 30 Terminators.

I play a similar Mordrak GK Terminator list, and would take 30 Terminators over 40GKSS and 10 Terminators...

For me its not about the "I shoot more than you", its about "I still shoot alot, and can CC with the best of them in most cases"

Mordrak
x3 Ghosts (Force Weapon)
Libarian (Warding Staff, Might of Titan, Sanc, Shrouding, Warp Rift, Quicksilver)
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)

35 Terminators and 4 different guys that can take on IC Challenges with a 2+/2++ save. Yes the army seriously lacks the ablity to drop fliers with needing 6's but that is just the risk the army takes.

Roguejm11 wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:Word.

The problem with terminators though is, they need to get into combat, and quickly, otherwise you're better off with taking Strike Squads, since Strike Squads outshoot Terminators. 40 GKSS and 10 Terminators is probably stronger than 30 Terminators.

I play a similar Mordrak GK Terminator list, and would take 30 Terminators over 40GKSS and 10 Terminators...

For me its not about the "I shoot more than you", its about "I still shoot alot, and can CC with the best of them in most cases"

Mordrak
x3 Ghosts (Force Weapon)
Libarian (Warding Staff, Might of Titan, Sanc, Shrouding, Warp Rift, Quicksilver)
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)

35 Terminators and 4 different guys that can take on IC Challenges with a 2+/2++ save. Yes the army seriously lacks the ablity to drop fliers with needing 6's but that is just the risk the army takes.

I'm really liking the list. I'd rather have terminators over power armor marines.

ORRR!!!

Libarian (Warding Staff, Might of Titan, Sanc, Shrouding, Warp Rift, Quicksilver)
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x1 DreadKnight (Heavy Incinterator, Personal Teleporter)
x1 DreadKnight (Heavy Incinterator, Personal Teleporter)
x1 DreadKnight (Heavy Incinterator, Personal Teleporter)

1895... so if you wanted to you could add 105 points to something, like add an Inquistor for some added buffaage to go to 2k game.
or drop 45 points and play an 1850 game.

Where 1 DreadKnight is cool... 3 in your face turn 2... is awesome =)

OORRRR!!!!

Drop one of the DreadKnights and take a..... Stormraven with TL Multi-Melta, TL Lascannon, and Hurricane bolters for 235... same cost as the DK, and you have gotten yourself a flyer killer.

Roguejm11 wrote:ORRR!!!

Libarian (Warding Staff, Might of Titan, Sanc, Shrouding, Warp Rift, Quicksilver)
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x1 DreadKnight (Heavy Incinterator, Personal Teleporter)
x1 DreadKnight (Heavy Incinterator, Personal Teleporter)
x1 DreadKnight (Heavy Incinterator, Personal Teleporter)

1895... so if you wanted to you could add 105 points to something, like add an Inquistor for some added buffaage to go to 2k game.
or drop 45 points and play an 1850 game.

Where 1 DreadKnight is cool... 3 in your face turn 2... is awesome =)

OORRRR!!!!

Drop one of the DreadKnights and take a..... Stormraven with TL Multi-Melta, TL Lascannon, and Hurricane bolters for 235... same cost as the DK, and you have gotten yourself a flyer killer.

Thats a scary list, but I would take a grandmaster instead so if he wanted to, he could make the dreadknights scoring with Grand Strategy.

Yeah. 2 measly scoring units, when many missions are objective based? Sounds like a recipe for disaster

Also the CC weapons aren't listed for every guy. 5 halberds, 2 hammers and a state is 8 CC weapons, for 10 guys. Guess the other two are swords?


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Stormtrooper520 wrote:I'm really liking the list. I'd rather have terminators over power armor marines.

Do whatever is the most fun for you, but terminators worse shooting compared to pa guys is going to hurt you in a lot of games.

I would have to agree with swapping the Libarian for a GM, but this is a personal thing for me... I would just add Mordrak for 200 points. Just because. And I still get Grand Strat.

I also mis-spoke on the weapons, this should be better

Mordrak <--- he makes baby ghosts!
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons/Halberd, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x10 Terminators (x1 Justicar Warding Staff, x 2 Daemon Hammers, x2 Psycannons/Halberd, x5 Halberds, Psybolt Ammo)
x1 DreadKnight (Heavy Incinterator, Personal Teleporter)
x1 DreadKnight (Heavy Incinterator, Personal Teleporter)
x1 DreadKnight (Heavy Incinterator, Personal Teleporter)

The 2 terminator groups get combat squaded, so you have 4 5-man scoring units, with a possiblity of having 7 if needed on a good roll from GS.

Terminators get 8 Psycannon shots on the move, same as 2 GKSS.

At 2000 points, you are missing a second HQ choice...

He doesn't necessarily need 2 H.Q. choices. 2 H.Q.'s may be helpful but I think the list is just fine with only 1.

At 2000 points, the FOC doubles, making 2 HQ mandatory.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:At 2000 points, the FOC doubles, making 2 HQ mandatory.

No, if you want to unlock it at 2k, you need 2 HQs and 4 troops. You don't NEED to have 2 HQs if you don't want the double FOC.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:At 2000 points, the FOC doubles, making 2 HQ mandatory.

You are reading the rules wrong.


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Unholy_Martyr wrote:Terminators get 8 Psycannon shots on the move, same as 2 GKSS.

Psycannons are Heavy 4 Assault 2

Heavy 4 = You get 4 shots if you don't move.
Assault 2 = You get 2 shots if you move.
Relentless = You get to shoot 4 times on the move anyway (Terminators have this)

So..

2 Terminators get 8 shots on the move.
2 GKSS get 4 shots on the move.

That is unless GKSS were given Relentless, but I wouldn't think so.

Roguejm11 wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:At 2000 points, the FOC doubles, making 2 HQ mandatory.

You are reading the rules wrong.


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Unholy_Martyr wrote:Terminators get 8 Psycannon shots on the move, same as 2 GKSS.

Psycannons are Heavy 4 Assault 2

Heavy 4 = You get 4 shots if you don't move.
Assault 2 = You get 2 shots if you move.
Relentless = You get to shoot 4 times on the move anyway (Terminators have this)

So..

2 Terminators get 8 shots on the move.
2 GKSS get 4 shots on the move.

That is unless GKSS were given Relentless, but I wouldn't think so.

Well said. It makes more sense to have terminators than GKSS because they are on the move and they get more shot off. AND they are better in assault. Making terminators in footslogging lists overrall better.

Stormtrooper520 wrote:

Roguejm11 wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:At 2000 points, the FOC doubles, making 2 HQ mandatory.

You are reading the rules wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Unholy_Martyr wrote:Terminators get 8 Psycannon shots on the move, same as 2 GKSS.

Psycannons are Heavy 4 Assault 2

Heavy 4 = You get 4 shots if you don't move.
Assault 2 = You get 2 shots if you move.
Relentless = You get to shoot 4 times on the move anyway (Terminators have this)

So..

2 Terminators get 8 shots on the move.
2 GKSS get 4 shots on the move.

That is unless GKSS were given Relentless, but I wouldn't think so.

Well said. It makes more sense to have terminators than GKSS because they are on the move and they get more shot off. AND they are better in assault. Making terminators in footslogging lists overrall better.

Thank you sir

I was saying that 10 Terminators get the same number of Psycannon shots on the move as 20 Strike Squad marines...32 Storm Bolter shots don't matter diddly.

Roguejm11 wrote:So..

2 Terminators get 8 shots on the move.
2 GKSS get 4 shots on the move.

But getting 2 GKSSs with psycannons is half as many points as getting 2 GKTs with psycannons (220 pts versus 450). And if the GKSS are standing still they shoot double the shots, per point, than the terminators do.

Joe Mama wrote:

Roguejm11 wrote:So..

2 Terminators get 8 shots on the move.
2 GKSS get 4 shots on the move.

But getting 2 GKSSs with psycannons is half as many points as getting 2 GKTs with psycannons (220 pts versus 450). And if the GKSS are standing still they shoot double the shots, per point, than the terminators do.

Indeed, GKSS are better shooting.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:I was saying that 10 Terminators get the same number of Psycannon shots on the move as 20 Strike Squad marines

And half as many psycannon shots as 20 GKSS standing still. There is also the matter of quite a few more stormbolters that the gkss have...

...32 Storm Bolter shots don't matter diddly.

lol wut?

32 Storm Bolters don't hurt Rhinos, Chimeras, Land Raiders, Monstrous Creatures, Flyers...oh most of the units that you need to damage that you're better off not having on the table...

Unholy_Martyr wrote:I was saying that 10 Terminators get the same number of Psycannon shots on the move as 20 Strike Squad marines...32 Storm Bolter shots don't matter diddly.

Yes you are correct, 10 terminators get the same number of Psycannon shots as 20 strike squads marines on the move.

And if you are taking full 10 man terminator squads or 10 man strike squads you are still not to spend the 20 points for Psybolt Ammo.


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Unholy_Martyr wrote:32 Storm Bolters don't hurt Rhinos, Chimeras, Land Raiders, Monstrous Creatures, Flyers...oh most of the units that you need to damage that you're better off not having on the table...

Rhinos are armor 11. Str 5 storm bolters glance on a 6. 6th Edition rules prevail!!!! I can glance a rhino to death. (Which I have done alot already)

Oh and Str 5 storm bolters can hurt monstrous creatures, and most models with the flyer rule are only armor 10 or 11, so yes i can kill them too.


Overall to really settle this, who is better at shooting 10 terminators or 10 GKSS, why not just stand them 24'' apart and roll your dice shooting at each other. Would love to see who lives longer.