Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I have been a long time lurker on the lore discussion part of this forum(being a Warhammer fan, but not playing the tabletop). So I have taken a fancy to the Catachans as of late and I am curious as to how strong these guys are. I know they are probably stronger then the average guardsmen of other types, but how would a Catachan infantryman compare to an Ork or another Imperial Guard for instance. I mean like just put the two in single combat in any given field. I know the Catachan are focused on jungle warfare, but are not limited to it. Another way to ask this question is to ask how well would Rambo do in Warhammer.

If you are interested into Catachans, I recommend picking up the IG Omnibus as it contains a novel about Catachans vs Orks called Death World. Also, welcome to the forums.

Phantom wrote:If you are interested into Catachans, I recommend picking up the IG Omnibus as it contains a novel about Catachans vs Orks called Death World. Also, welcome to the forums.

Thank you for welcoming me! I appreciate it.

Though I am just looking for some quick answers at the moment.

Ok, so quick awnser is that from the book (people who know more of the fluff and such should be coming in soon), a common Catachan is more than capable of killing a couple of ork boyz in combat, including in close combat. As for against the guardsmen, in the book their is a 'bar' fight between the Catachans and another regiment and the Catachans easily gained the upper hand. Hope that helps, and again, someone with more knowledge on Catachans should be here shortly.

Catachans seem to be pretty damn strong for your basic humans.

There is a piece of art depicting a Catachan who has an ork in a headlock.
In the codex fluff Vet sgt Harker snaps the neck of a Tyranid Ravener and is also more then capable of wielding a heavy bolter and ammo in much the same way as a Space Marine does.

As Phantom said its probably getting a few of the IG books and having a read.

Catachans are my favorite army as well. It seems their strength is just short of that of a Space Marine. They are easily on par with an ork boy, though not a nob. Unfortunately there is no way to place the "Novel" versons of the catachan jungle figher. I think a good way to create a Catachan force these days would be to use them as "Counts as Orks" in an allied IG army. The trick being, to keep your opponent from getting confused. If I did this, my main armies guardsmen would be represented by Cadians, and the Orks would be Catachans. It think it would make a great looking army too.

Catachans come from a death world. Humans that survive there could be exceptionally physically strong. They could also be exceptionally cunning. Brute strength isn't the only way to survive. Biologically speaking, there is nothing in the fluff to suggest that Catachans have higher upper limits to their strength as a group than humans hailing from other worlds. Will they tend to be in better shape overall than guardsmen from some idyllic agriworld? Uh, yeah -- otherwise they wouldn't survive childhood. But to say that all Catachans are as strong as any given Ork boy is ridiculous. That's like saying all people from Somalia are physically stronger than an average person from Connecticut because Somalia is such a rough place.

Manchu wrote:Catachans come from a death world. Humans that survive there could be exceptionally physically strong. They could also be exceptionally cunning. Brute strength isn't the only way to survive. Biologically speaking, there is nothing in the fluff to suggest that Catachans have higher upper limits to their strength as a group than humans hailing from other worlds. Will they tend to be in better shape overall than guardsmen from some idyllic agriworld? Uh, yeah -- otherwise they wouldn't survive childhood. But to say that all Catachans are as strong as any given Ork boy is ridiculous. That's like saying all people from Somalia are physically stronger than an average person from Connecticut because Somalia is such a rough place.

So true and made me laugh out loud when i read the last few lines !!!

Manchu wrote:Catachans come from a death world. Humans that survive there could be exceptionally physically strong. They could also be exceptionally cunning. Brute strength isn't the only way to survive. Biologically speaking, there is nothing in the fluff to suggest that Catachans have higher upper limits to their strength as a group than humans hailing from other worlds. Will they tend to be in better shape overall than guardsmen from some idyllic agriworld? Uh, yeah -- otherwise they wouldn't survive childhood. But to say that all Catachans are as strong as any given Ork boy is ridiculous. That's like saying all people from Somalia are physically stronger than an average person from Connecticut because Somalia is such a rough place.

Not quite the same thing. Somalia is a rough place sure, but because of poverty and war. Not because of every living thing in the entire country trying to eat you or being poisonous. You can't grow up on Catachan (or any other deathworld like Catachan) without being physically strong and cunning as you said. Biologically speaking- no Catachans are humans the same as Cadians are. But Catachans have grown up fighting against their planet that wants to literally eat them. Their lives are a never ending battle for survival. The weak are killed. Leaving only the strongest. A better comparison would be Native American Iraquois or the average Incan or Aztecan tribesman compared to the guy from Connecticut.

Frankly, Cadia is a pretty rough place, too -- what with the constant hordes of Chaos Space Marines and daemons endlessly pouring out of the tear in time and space right next door to blow up your house and smash your face in. So, considering all of that, Catachans wouldn't have gak on Cadians.

Ignatius wrote:A better comparison would be Native American Iraquois or the average Incan or Aztecan tribesman compared to the guy from Connecticut.

Uh, the Aztec empire was probably a nicer place to live than modern day Somalia.

The comparison between cadians and catachans is not really fair. on a death world like catachan the skills needed for survival are different then the requirements for staving off a black crusade on cadia.

Catachans will be more strong physically and likely be more skilled in melee combat skills and stealth whilst cadians will in all likelihood be far more disciplined as a fighting force and have better marksmanship. in short the two differing situations will produce very different guardsmen (both bitchin IMHO)

Tbh, from the BL books. Gaunts ghosts seem a lot like catachans except much more diverse. It's evident, however, that Abnett has taken some inspiration from the Catachan background what with Bragg being big enough to wield an autocannon alone. They are also described as being brawlers, and winning fights in bars. In a fight between them and Catachans...well I dunno who'd win (in the end it would be Ghosts since they have a commisar on their side who'd court martial all the catachans)

Yeah, it's rule of cool at the end of the day. Catachans are an army of 1980s-era Schwarzeneggers.

Manchu wrote:Frankly, Cadia is a pretty rough place, too -- what with the constant hordes of Chaos Space Marines and daemons endlessly pouring out of the tear in time and space right next door to blow up your house and smash your face in. So, considering all of that, Catachans wouldn't have gak on Cadians.

I was more refering to a planet that was vastly different. I understand Cadia is under siege and all that mumbo jumbo. We'll say Mordian then (because let's face it, most all planets that are significant have some sort of huge problem with them)

Manchu wrote:

Ignatius wrote:A better comparison would be Native American Iraquois or the average Incan or Aztecan tribesman compared to the guy from Connecticut.

Uh, the Aztec empire was probably a nicer place to live than modern day Somalia.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I have no doubts that the Aztecans, Incans, or Iraquois live better than Somalians. That's not what I was talking about. I was refering to the fact that those Native American peoples had to work seemingly harder for what they have. Somalia is a mess, and that doesn't necessarily breed strength and cunning. That's the point I'm making. So Somalians aren't stronger than the United Statesmen, but I bet the Native Americans were. Why? Because they worked for everything they needed. They didn't have the option of going down to the local grocier or hiring someone to cut down a tree when they needed it done. Same with Catachans. They fight to live in a way that other planets populations do not need to. Are they all rambo? No of course not. But I bet most of them are tougher at least.

I always thought they were based on a mix of Vietnam vets and Harry Harrisons Deathworld series.

My opinion is that on average they are stronger than many other humans and most gaurdsmen - excepting those from similar backgrounds or who have been enhanced in some way.

They could probably match a Ork in a straight fight but your average ork is likely stronger than your average catachan - just different biological baselines.

Again, the real issue is that Arnold Schwarzenegger can fight a Predator. So that's our model for what Catachans can do (away from the tabletop). Rule of Cool, baby, Rule of Cool.

So can Danny Glover who is, in his own words, "too old for this [gak]".

Given that the "star player" of the Catachan line is Sly Marbo, I think it's closer to the truth to say that the Catachans are 80's-era Sylvester Stallone rather than Schwarzenegger.

Because there is such a difference?

Ignatius wrote: Are they all rambo? No of course not. But I bet most of them are tougher at least.

Except that they are all rambo. To live on Catachan is to be rambo. They are completely synonymous.

Guess that makes Marbo the rambo of rambo's

"Rambo of Ramboes." That's a fething awesome title.

Muscle mass is almost entirely down to protein consumption during childhood, rather than genetics.
Never been entirely sure how such apparently primative peoples' managed to get enough protein, considering on earth people with muscles like that were impossible in pre-industrial time due to a lack of protein, outside of maybe a very few wealthy aristocrats.

Marbo is, indeed, Rambo's Rambo. For those who haven't "got it" yet, even the character of "Sly Marbo" is a reference to John Rambo (played by Sylvester Stallone, a nickname for Sylvester is Sly, and Rambo is just jumbled into Rambo).

To the OP. Welcome.

To the thread:

Catachans are legendarily tough. Marbo rises above them all, and embodies the spirit of what every Catachan aspires to be; a cold blooded homicidal maniac. The Catachan's undoubtedly have some of the most colorful guardsmen of the 40k universe, Straken, Marbo, and Harker among them. Even on table top, this equates to a brutally strong infantry army.

However, the Catachan's really only have infantry, and are not known to fight wars of attrition. They may be tough hardfought, veterans, but even a large enough conscript army can trample them - continuing the metaphor - like US collation forces in... you guessed it, Somalia. Put them against another capable force, like Cadia, or Vostroya, or even Krieg, and we have ourselves a true battle of skill, gusto, tactics, equipment, and honor, because each has a specialty, and none of them are truly the "Greatest Warrior" argument I'm starting to see arise.

Testify wrote:protein

Perhaps everything on Catachan is made of some kind of protein. Catachans are just one more cluster of proteins killing or being killed.

Also, an 40k-themed imageboard called CataChan would be awesome. (No I don't pronounce that "ch" as a voiceless palato-alveolar affricate when I say the name of the planet or the Guardsmen therefrom.)

I read somewhere that gravity on there planet is high. That's why they are so muscular. And its why they appear so strong when they go to another planet.

So I have another question. How do the weapons the Catachan(or any Imperial Guard) work? I know Lasguns work on a battery so do you ever have to reload them? What about sniper rifles? Are they laser weapons as well? What sound does a firing lasgun make? Also, what mode of fire do they fire at?

I remember reading the wiki on lasguns, but I dont remember these questions being answered.

You can recharge the battery but otherwise it works like a modern day rifle magazine (Is that the right word? I don't do firearms...)
There are las rifle sniper variants but some regiments also use solid slug weapons instead.
No idea what a firing lasgun sounds like...
Single shot, semi-automatic, fully automatic.

purplefood wrote:You can recharge the battery but otherwise it works like a modern day rifle magazine (Is that the right word? I don't do firearms...)
There are las rifle sniper variants but some regiments also use solid slug weapons instead.
No idea what a firing lasgun sounds like...
Single shot, semi-automatic, fully automatic.

Thank you very much.

What damage would a lasgun do to an ork?

Due to the resilient nature of orks a lasgun would not likely kill an ork on first shot unless it was a clean headshot.

But a lasgun is far superior to modern firearms, the particle laser a lasgun fires causes explosive vaporization at the contact site.

so it would likely causes a large gaping/ cauterized wound where the ork was shot. but due to the small area (compared to orks and other xeno's) that the shot effects it would not due much. If shot on full auto at close range the las round would likely eviscerate an ork and send his insides all over the place.

against humans lasguns have been known to blast off limbs with a single shot.