Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just want to make sure I've got the allocation right.

Imagine a Basilisk lands a barrage on top of an IC in the middle of a squad resulting in 5 unsaved wounds.
As the IC is closest to the centre of the blast, he would have to pass Look Out Sir rolls one at a time until all 5 wounds have been passed on or the IC is dead.
So while the IC is alive all the wounds will be allocated to him.
If killed the remaining wounds will then to next closest squad members.

Sound about right?

How can you use Look Out Sir on Ordnance?

MJThurston wrote:How can you use Look Out Sir on Ordnance?

The same way you can use Look Out, Sir! on Rapid Fire, Assault, Heavy, Melee...

MJThurston wrote:How can you use Look Out Sir on Ordnance?

I really can't find any rule that would cause Ordnance to prevent the Look out Sir.
Which page is it on?

grendel083 wrote:Just want to make sure I've got the allocation right.

Imagine a Basilisk lands a barrage on top of an IC in the middle of a squad resulting in 5 unsaved wounds.
As the IC is closest to the centre of the blast, he would have to pass Look Out Sir rolls one at a time until all 5 wounds have been passed on or the IC is dead.
So while the IC is alive all the wounds will be allocated to him.
If killed the remaining wounds will then to next closest squad members.

Sound about right?

You have it correct. Barrage sniping is an incredibly effective tactic in 6th edition. The Manticore is especially good at it.

Great, cheers Danny.
I have a Manticore, and plan to put it to good use!

Where in the rules does it say the center is the closest model? They are all under it and all take the same damage.

MJThurston wrote:Where in the rules does it say the center is the closest model? They are all under it and all take the same damage.

Not sure what you are trying to imply here, but wound allocation and cover saves are determined from the center of the blast marker. If a model is directly under the center of the blast marker, it is the closest model.

Yes this is correct, yes this is also stupid, barrage weapons having a 1/3 chance of being able to pick their target at will is such awful design for what are meant to be indiscriminate less accurate weapons.

Meh all the important guys have 2+ LoS.

More stupid rules by GW that people will find out how to exploit. I had a guy in the older rules move his tanks so that he could only see my HQ in a squad. Because he was the only target, he could be sniped out of the squad.

I think Look Out Sir is a waste of time.

Yeah, the actual chance of an IC getting gibbed by a Barrage is pretty small, although the chance goes up for every hit that was caused in total.

Its not as sure as it seems, but again it makes sense. If you take a direct hit, and in this case its REALLY a direct hit, from an artillery shell, you are screwed. I don't care who you are, you arn't getting out of there without some damn good armor and alot of luck.

5 hits on a squad give about a 55% chance of nuking the character. Probably way below what a real life bombardment would do.

After reading the blast and large blast rules I see nothing that says the model under the center is the closest.

It says use normal rules for wound allocation. Which means closest from the model that fired.

Cover saves are determined from the center. Not who is wounded first.

You missed the second bullet point under Barrage. Which is what we are concerned with. Regular blast weapons arn't concerned here. Its Barrage weapons we're talking about.

Grey Templar wrote:Yeah, the actual chance of an IC getting gibbed by a Barrage is pretty small, although the chance goes up for every hit that was caused in total.

Its not as sure as it seems, but again it makes sense. If you take a direct hit, and in this case its REALLY a direct hit, from an artillery shell, you are screwed. I don't care who you are, you arn't getting out of there without some damn good armor and alot of luck.

5 hits on a squad give about a 55% chance of nuking the character. Probably way below what a real life bombardment would do.

yeah but by that same token the same should apply to blast weapons, not to mention a direct hit from a bolter is pretty damn deadly too.

Also, the focus on ICs and "but they get LOS" isn't the issue IMO, it's using barrages to pick special weapons out of units, that's just dumb, that's awful game design, and you can't protect yourself from it.

Maybe not an IC, but models in a squad with a special weapon can get sniped fairly well with this. Didn't they have a similar mechanic like this in 2nd or 3rd edition? I seem to remember the same silliness in one of those.

MJ, you need to stop looking at Blasts, and look at Barrage.

Barrage measures LOS for allocation from the center hole while regular blasts measure true LOS.

-cgmckenzie

People talk of the Manticore for this, I think you should be more scared of the Mortar and the Biovore. Not units that see a lot of normal play, but cheap and can easily take out special or heavy weapons.

This isn't the worst example of abusing the wound allocation rules. If you control line of sight you can snipe/focus fire any part of the unit you want. You can use a transport to block LOS to all but the part of the unit you want to take out then all the wounds have to be allocated to the visible models.

Yep, this is back to 4th edition LOS sniping again.

Sigh.

I hate the wound allocation part. It's going to add so much more time.

If they wanted the closest guy to get the most hits then they should have written the rule better. Right now it seems everyone aims at the closest guy but wounds go threw him into the rest of the squad.

Wounds must be allocated to the closest enemy model and given to each member of the enemy squad until each has taken 1 save. If any remaining saves are needed then start at the new closest model and continue until all wounds have been saved.

Wordy, long but does the same thing beside almost always killing the closest guy.

Now people have to be careful where they put their members. Before the special weapons where up front to maximize ranges. Flamers were always in the front. Now if you want those guys you have to hide them until you want to use them. But I also know that if I had a squad with a few plasma guns I'd tell them to shoot the guys with flamers, melta guns or the Seargeant with the power fist.

No, it doesnt take any more time.

If you all have the same save, just roll all the dice together and start removing models from the centre of the blast. Very easy

Now add Look Out Sir into this........

What for it.......

More time.

Look Out Sir would not be a rule if each model had to make a save.

Hence more time because of Look Out Sir.

FNP is going to be a headache.

And, again, not difficult.

Work out how many wounds you can take before LOS! is an issue, roll in batchs that ensure you dont have to bother about LOS! (so 3 wounds lost before LOS! is an issue, then roll 3 dice. If no wounds are taken, roll another 3. Repeat)

When you get to LOS!, assuming youre going to try to bounce, roll the bounces. Rinse, repeat.

This is a lot quicker in the GENERAL case than it was in 5th

WOW.

I didn't say it was difficult. I said it adds more time.

Does it add at least 1 sec to find the outcome of the wounds? Yes.

So if it adds at least 1 sec, then it add more time.

I think this will add more time to the old way, even with all the BS wound allocation 5th had.

It reduces the time from 5th edition, considerably. If you take a normal squad you can just roll dice and remove models, with no worry about having to think about allocation.

I thought you were talking about something significant. 1 second added to a process that is quicker than 5th edition by significant amounts doesnt mean it takes "more time", overall it takes less.

Not when people roll one die at a time.

Also people get to pick when you take curtain saves. ie 6, AP 4 saves and then 2, AP2 saves, then 1 AP1 Save.

Then Look Out Sir.

Then FNP. Then Mixed Armor.

In general with no Character Models it will be faster. The minute that an IC is in the front it will add time. I'm talking about the Look Out Sir part of this and not regular units.

Yes, aware of that. Again, choosing the order takes seconds, LOS! takes seconds (it adds 1 2+ or 4+ roll to it - if 4+ good chance that one fail means no more LOS!)

Mixed armour makes no difference. Again, reread what i put - you can roll in batches. If people refuse to roll in batches, then they are deliberately slow playing (where batches are possible)

this system is FAR FASTER than 5th edition, in the general AND mixed armour / wargear equivalents of 5th.

Until people argue over every little part of it.

No the bolt gun guy is closer.
No the plasma guy is closer.

And so on for every special guy they have.