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After losing a few dozen pages of work to a faulty USB drive, I decided to start over and focus my vision. Whereas the last codex had a few dozen units (not including vehicles), the new has about eight. I'll put it up when I get my computer up and running again, but in the meantime I would like to post the SCs here and get some feedback.

OP edited. I knew I forgot a few things on this guy. Cost is adjusted, hopefully accordingly.

Executor Daedric Vorsigar 260 points

Executor Vörsigar is a very large man, even without his armor. With his armor he stands over eight feet tall, taller than any of his Reavers, and perhaps one of the tallest and strongest unmodified members of the Tirion Combine. When equipped with his trusty Goliath Combat Suit, his twin hammers, and Thruster Pack, the sight of this vengeful giant barreling across the field, screaming like the world is ending and swinging two hammers as they shine, crackle, and hum with powerful blue energy is enough to make even the stoutest hearted of men ask themselves if being here is really a good idea.

Executor Vörsigar is undoubtedly one of the most skilled weaponmasters in the Tirion Combine and his ability with his twin hammers is unparalleled. Executor Vörsigar spends most of his time in combat simulations, sparring against solid holograms of Tyranids for hours on end. Executor Vörsigar has sustained several grievous injuries in the ComSims, mostly due to the programs he has installed that continually increase the size, speed, and number of Tyranid opponents. This almost suicidal practice has many of the Combine’s Executors worried about his mental health. Executor Vörsigar maintains that he is perfectly fine, but he knows otherwise; his actions, or perhaps inaction, led directly to the Tyranid invasion of Naman, and the subsequent loss of millions of lives. His guilt has lead him to make suicidal charges against Tyranid forces on more than one occasion, and even though he is reprimanded each time, his guilt is constantly driving him to greater and greater acts of bravado against the Tyranid swarm.

It is because of this that Vörsigar was assigned to the Reavers. Though many view this as a move by the Combine to shut Vörsigar down, perhaps permanently (as Reavers do not last very long), his skill and will to outlive his opponents so that he may one day punch the Swarmlord’s face off has done extraordinarily well to keep him alive.


..................................WS...BS...S...T...W...I...A...Ld...Sv
Executor Vörsigar......8.....5....5...5....4...6...4...10...2+
FO: HQ
Composition: 1 (Unique)
Unit: Daedric Vorsigar

Wargear:
Modified AS-12 Combat Suit - This suit contains a slew of Armor systems that vastly increase the strength and survivability of Vörsigar, especially when using his Thruster Pack to blast his way into unsuspecting enemy units. When combined with his hammers, Exitium and Immortalis, Vörsigar becomes a monstrous foe on the battlefield, able to smash tanks and infantry alike. His Unit Type is changed to Jump Monstrous Creature and has the MAGs, Nano-Gel, and Nanomachines augs. MAGs increase I by 1 (included), Nano-gel gives FnP, and Nanomachines allow him to move +2" if he does not use his jump pack in the movement phase


Special Rules:
Independent Character
Counter-Attack
Rage
Zealot (Tyranids)
Preferred Enemy (Tyranids)
Rampage
Strikeout
Monster Hunter

Options:
May take one of the following:
Light Shield (5++ save): +10pts
Medium Shield (4++save): +25pts
Heavy Shield (3++ save): +45pts

I'd love to hear more fluff in general about him; seems very powerful for 295 points (mephiston-levels activate!)

Why does it seem like every special character needs to have boosted stats in all areas? Calgar, Lysander, Shrike all have just WS6 S4 T4 I5, there are only like 5 marines with a higher WS than 6 and only 2 with WS 8, one of which is Crowe, the other is the Sanguinor, which isn't even really human.

Buttons wrote:Why does it seem like every special character needs to have boosted stats in all areas? Calgar, Lysander, Shrike all have just WS6 S4 T4 I5, there are only like 5 marines with a higher WS than 6 and only 2 with WS 8, one of which is Crowe, the other is the Sanguinor, which isn't even really human.

But he isn't a marine! xD
He's also a Monstrous Creature.

As for the dude...
I would lay it out like this:
FO: HQ
Squad: Executor Daedric Vorsigar
Unit: Daedric Vorsigar, Points Per: 250, Models: 1*, Unit Type: Monstrous Creature, Jump, WS-8, BS-5, S-5, T-5, W-4, I-5, A-4, Ld-10, Sv-2+.

Wargear:
Modified AS-12 Combat Suit
Jump Pack
Twin Hammers

Special Rules:
Independent Character
Rage
Zealot (Tyranids)
Preferred Enemy (Tyranids)
Rampage
Strikeout
Monster Hunter

Options:
May take one of the following:
Light Shield: +10pts
Medium Shield: +25pts
Heavy Shield: +45pts

Much clearer!
Honestly, it seems fine overall. It's big, it's expensive, it has no ranged ability to speak of and it'll take up a massive chunk of your force for it, plus it's only T5 in the end.

Why?

Can he have more than 1 unit type?

They've changed how Jump and Jet Pack units work in 6th.

They have a primary unit type that they use normally (usually Infantry, though can be MCs, etc), that then get either the Jump or Jet Pack type aswell, which gives them alternate movement options and the option for HoW attacks.

Ovion wrote:

Buttons wrote:Why does it seem like every special character needs to have boosted stats in all areas? Calgar, Lysander, Shrike all have just WS6 S4 T4 I5, there are only like 5 marines with a higher WS than 6 and only 2 with WS 8, one of which is Crowe, the other is the Sanguinor, which isn't even really human.

But he isn't a marine! xD
He's also a Monstrous Creature.

As for the dude...
I would lay it out like this:
FO: HQ
Squad: Executor Daedric Vorsigar
Unit: Daedric Vorsigar, Points Per: 250, Models: 1*, Unit Type: Monstrous Creature, Jump, WS-8, BS-5, S-5, T-5, W-4, I-5, A-4, Ld-10, Sv-2+.

Wargear:
Modified AS-12 Combat Suit
Jump Pack
Twin Hammers

Special Rules:
Independent Character
Rage
Zealot (Tyranids)
Preferred Enemy (Tyranids)
Rampage
Strikeout
Monster Hunter

Options:
May take one of the following:
Light Shield: +10pts
Medium Shield: +25pts
Heavy Shield: +45pts

Much clearer!
Honestly, it seems fine overall. It's big, it's expensive, it has no ranged ability to speak of and it'll take up a massive chunk of your force for it, plus it's only T5 in the end.

Yeah I had to post the OP on my phone. If I was on my computer i probably would have given more thought to the layout and made it less jumbled.

And the point cost for the shield is done that way because there are a few other upgrades laid out that way that nearly every unit can take. It seems silly on one character, but one sentence at the beginning of the codex so the rest makes sense is easier than listing out everything individually. When I post the codex it will make more sense.

Seems like just another generic "I want to invent a guy who can beat Draigo/Mephiston/Abaddon" guy.

DarknessEternal wrote:Seems like just another generic "I want to invent a guy who can beat Draigo/Mephiston/Abaddon" guy.

Not at all, though I get where you're coming from. When I create characters I don't usually think about other characters in terms of whether mine can beat them. I just create stats that fit the character's fluff, then tone it down if it's too OP or OTT. What would you do to make this guy more original?

Well, he's human, so I'd start by giving him a human stat line.

Why does he have WS8? Khârn has WS7 and I highly doubt that this guy has as much experience as Khârn. In a similar vein, the Emperor's Champion, being guided in combat by the Emperor himself, only has 1WS more than Chapter Masters at the time the Codex was written (i.e. the then-equivalent of WS7). Simply training a lot really shouldn't get you that high.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Why does he have WS8? Khârn has WS7 and I highly doubt that this guy has as much experience as Khârn. In a similar vein, the Emperor's Champion, being guided in combat by the Emperor himself, only has 1WS more than Chapter Masters at the time the Codex was written (i.e. the then-equivalent of WS7). Simply training a lot really shouldn't get you that high.

Yet Crowe has WS 8, and he has nowhere near as much experience as Kharn, and I doubt as much as Draigo.

McNinja wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Why does he have WS8? Khârn has WS7 and I highly doubt that this guy has as much experience as Khârn. In a similar vein, the Emperor's Champion, being guided in combat by the Emperor himself, only has 1WS more than Chapter Masters at the time the Codex was written (i.e. the then-equivalent of WS7). Simply training a lot really shouldn't get you that high.

Yet Crowe has WS 8, and he has nowhere near as much experience as Kharn, and I doubt as much as Draigo.

He's a Champion Special Character, although if you ask me WS 7'd been enough for him too. Furthermore, unlike Vörsigar, Crowe, Khârn and the Emperor's Champion are Space Marines. The point still stands though, don't make your own custom characters that equal the best melee fighters in the galaxy unless said character is a special character version of something that good.

>equal to the best melee fighters in the galaxy, have unprecedented access to power armour that can withstand mountains of kinetic force and lift tonnes in loadout

>unaugmented mutant human is three times as powerful and not even heresy

>no space marine has ever explicitly shown any more tactical ability than an ogryn

>ogryn are often shown ripping space marines apart, despite that whole physical laws should dictate the materials involved in power armour still make even the strongest humans ineffectively weak

>make ogryn into space marines, their space and time-bending strength and power causes shock trooper value to go up 9001%


The argument that space marines are somehow better than humans, tactically or martially has never, ever been shown outside of whoever's wearing the plot armour at the time. They are given this skill set, "tactically intelligent," and then that skillset is never dramatified - authors often latch onto whatever piece of ambush tactica or outflanking maneuver they've read recently, and exemplify it as a fail-proof tactic used by the best shocktroopers in the galaxy. There is never detail given to electronic or warp interference with coms or satellites. There is never counter-tactics. In the far future of the 41's millennium, there is only DRAMA.

So yeah, if you can actually give me a background where he does something worthy of WS8 (which, remember, the meanest mortal bitch in 40K, Lelith, only has WS9), I would have no problems with him being better than space marines, who - statwise - are just fat, angry sisters of battle without an invulnerable save standard.

Bear in mind that Assassins all have WS and BS 8, and that is purely from extreme training over many, many years. I'm not saying I don't agree, but training can get you pretty far. In fact, I just realized that it's impossible for any combination of augs and armor to make any stat higher than an imperial assassin.

I'll write up some fluffy fluff and put it up that gives a legitimate reason for WS8.

As for anything else, bear in mind that this guy is a normal human (though more like a space marine in size and strength), within a heavy augmented and upgraded suit of armor. The reason he's a jump MC is because listing out everything his augs and weapons added would amount to the same thing, but with far more words.

McNinja wrote:Bear in mind that Assassins all have WS and BS 8, and that is purely from extreme training over many, many years. I'm not saying I don't agree, but training can get you pretty far.

Assassins are WS8 because they're MADE. They're created from birth soley for the purpouse of assassinating someone. They're not that good just beacuse they train 24/7 when not on a mission.

McNinja wrote:Bear in mind that Assassins all have WS and BS 8, and that is purely from extreme training

No it isn't. They are modified genetically and cybernetically. They are also doped out of their minds on the most extreme combat drugs known to man.

DarknessEternal wrote:

McNinja wrote:Bear in mind that Assassins all have WS and BS 8, and that is purely from extreme training

No it isn't. They are modified genetically and cybernetically. They are also doped out of their minds on the most extreme combat drugs known to man.

Well, I'm wrong. I knew eversors were drugged into mental Narnia, but I didn't think callidus or vindicares relied on them as heavily.

SO MANY DRUGS, ASSASSINS ARE LIKE THE ROCK STARS OF THE 41ST MILLENNIUM.

Seems like one of those ridiculous statlines created for some absurdly overpowered fluff character made by people with no understanding of game design. The abilities too...

DE Initiative and attacks... T5, W4, WS8, 2+ save with an option for 3++ AND FNP... And he can hide out in squads, or just fly around all the fething time so nothing can hit him.

This is just ridiculous. I'm actually angry right now.

Wow, calm yo'self Ostrakon. Not like you'll ever have to play him. Your jimmies may remain unrustled.

I don't think we can judge without seeing the rest of the codex, but it does seem a little excessive. Perhaps drop some things on him - he can be a beast, but does he need all that wargear? Does he need to be JI, or can he survive on foot? Should he be able to command a squad, or is he too busy jumping around murdering everything in sight?

Remember, less is more, especially in a custom codex.

Ostrakon wrote:Seems like one of those ridiculous statlines created for some absurdly overpowered fluff character made by people with no understanding of game design. The abilities too...

DE Initiative and attacks... T5, W4, WS8, 2+ save with an option for 3++ AND FNP... And he can hide out in squads, or just fly around all the fething time so nothing can hit him.

This is just ridiculous. I'm actually angry right now.

Slow your roll there. JUMP Monstrous Creature, not FLYING Monstrous Creature. He's not "flying around all the fething time so nothing can hit him." He can be on his own, but is still hit like normal.

Kaldor Draigo is 275 for T5, W4, EW, and a 3++ save. This guy is 305 for T5, W4, FnP, and a 3++ save. Draigo takes a single wound from S10 shots. This guy dies instantly with only a 45 point upgrade between him and instant death.

chrisrawr wrote:
So yeah, if you can actually give me a background where he does something worthy of WS8 (which, remember, the meanest mortal bitch in 40K, Lelith, only has WS9), I would have no problems with him being better than space marines, who - statwise - are just fat, angry sisters of battle without an invulnerable save standard.

Ask, and ye shall receive. I hope this is satisfactory.

The Day the Swarmlord got his face punched off------

Vorsigar gazed down upon the battlefield as his squad caught up to him, each landing gently on the edge of the cliff. Vorsigar despised the Tyranid beasts, and this latest battle was testing his patience; it would be another empty victory for the Combine if the Swarmlord was not slain. Despite the reddened skies and the constant downpour of spores, Vorsigar knew his force could win, but at the same time lamented the lack of his arch-nemesis on the field. Slaughtering Tyrants was a sport to Vorsigar, anything less was child’s play. Only the mighty Swarmlord presented a challenge to Vorsigar, only that creature had the combination of speed and power that sent chills down his spine and made him question if he would live to see the next day, and only his success against such a powerful foe made him feel truly alive.

As Vorsigar was about to command his Reavers to attack, he caught a glimpse of bone crackling with energy. He turned to look, the viewfinders in his helmet enhancing the battlefield as he did. Then he saw it; the Swarmlord, blasting up the battlefield, past the Carnifexes and the Hive Guard, running through the sea of Gants with the singular purpose of making everything’s day worse. One of his men asked “you saw it, didn’t you?” Vorsigar smiled; if there was one person whose day the Swarmlord could not make worse, it was his. Vorsigar activated his hammers, and as the bright blue energy danced around them, Vorsigar took a step forward, and fell off of the cliff. One by one, his Reavers did the same, each one taking a dive off of the hundred-foot-tall cliff. Just as they were about to smash into the ground they activated their Thruster Packs, sending them speeding off at breakneck speeds, so close to the ground they could touch it. Vorsigar headed straight for the Swarmlord, ready to slam into the giant beast. As usual, though, the Swarmlord had seen his approach and brought his bonesabre up to halt Vorsigar. Vorsigar parried with the head of his hammer, his Thruster Pack maintaining his momentum and he pushed himself off of the sabre and around the swarmlord. The Swarmlord just barely made his riposte, his blade missing Vorsigar by barely a millimeter. Vorsigar spun around the blade, still in mid-air, and brought his full strength to bear, his micro actuators straining as he slammed his hammer into the shoulder of the Swarmlord. The shell cracked and chips of Chitin flew in all directions, causing the Swarmlord to recoil in pain. Vorsigar landed and brought his other hammer up into the Swarmlords abdomen, searing the flesh from the Swarmlord’s bones. The Swarmlord reacted by bringing its knee up into Vorsigar’s chest, shattering the chestplate, and followed with two of its arms swinging at his neck. Vorsigar brought his hammers up to parry, deflecting a blade over his head, but the second blade found its way deep into Vorsigar’s left arm. As his Combat Suit released Nano-gel over the wound, Vorsigar let his left hammer drop out of his hand as he fired up his Thruster Pack.

The Swarmlord began swinging in all directions, each blade just missing its mark but finding a new one somewhere else. Vrosigar plowed straight up, covered in gashes and nano-gel, and the Swarmlord leapt up to finish him off. Vorsigar brought his hammer down in one final assault, knocking the bonesabres out of the way as he buried his hammer deep into the Swarmlords skull, nearly severing it at the neck. As it fell it made one last desperate strike, its blade piercing Vorsigar’s combat suit and embedding itself deep within his torso. They landed and the Swarmlord pulled the blade out of Vorsigar, causing him to spit up blood in his helmet. He fell to one knee, and as the Swarmlord rose to finish him off, Vorsigar summoned his remaining strength and leapt up, uppercutting the Swarmlord in the chin. The Swarmlords head flew through the air and its lifeless body wiggled, twitched, and flopped over like a ragdoll. Vorsigar reached down and picked up his hammer.

The Tyranids around him were in disarray, allowing the rest of the Combine force ample time to retaliate. As Particle beams swept across the field and the ODIN let loose a barrage of fire from its Vulcan Cannon, Vorsigar headed back to base. Sure, after recuperating he would be reprimanded for taking on the Swarmlord one on one and disregarding his unit, but that was a small price to pay for making his dream come true.

He had finally punched the Swarmlord’s face off.

Let me put it this way: If that were written by Mat Ward, what would people say about the fluff?

Show don't tell. He just seems to be this random badass right now with no real flaws.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Let me put it this way: If that were written by Mat Ward, what would people say about the fluff?

That it's... bad?

liquidjoshi wrote:Show don't tell. He just seems to be this random badass right now with no real flaws.

What do you mean by "show don't tell?" Do you mean use more character perspective and dialogue as opposed to the narrator thing I got going on?

Show don't tell: basically, let us form our own opinions rather than telling us "He is this badass, now believe it!"

Ok, I'm picking up what you're putting down. I'm rewriting it, it'll be a bit longer, but less "this is this" and more "punch yer face off." My main problem is that I write that sort of thing well, but not so much when my characters are supposed to be serious people.

Just paste in a picture of Superman. Or someone beating up Superman, since that's what your guy is supposed to do.