Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If you model a wolf priest with a power axe, can the model have one?
Unlike C:SM, there is nothing in the SW FAQ that states that the Crozius Arcanum is a power maul.

p85 of the SW codex clearly defines the Crozius Arcanum as a (power weapon).
p61 of the BRB states to"look at the model to tell what kind of power weapon the model has"

No wolf priest models are available for sale from GW, so I am forced to custom make my own from bits. (They sell a Ulrik, but not a regular wolf preist)
As such, if I model the figure with an axe, does his Crozius Arcanum count as one?

It's a power weapon as per the codex entry. So make it look like an axe and it is fine.

If you want a maul you can take the axe head off the two handed axe and put the winged wolf skull from the space wolf sprue in it's place. It works fairly well.

It'll more than likely be changed to a maul in the next round of FAQ's (out August I hear?). So it might not last long as an Axe.

As Grendel mentioned there are inconsistencies across FAQs which are expected to be corrected in the not too distant future, so I wouldn't rush into cutting the model up to put an axe head on the Crozius.

They addressed wolf priests and Ulrik in the FAQs without ever addressing the crozius arcanum as power weapons. I would not say it is an oversight when they took the time to address it across every other SM codex.

No actually, it cannot be an axe. In the SW Codex entry for the Wolf Priest they are not given a Power Weapon as part of their wargear.

They are given a Crozius Arcanum (Power weapon) in the listed wargear. And they are not allowed to upgrade it to anything else.

And they are not changed from having a Crozius Arcanum (Power weapon) to Power Weapon anywhere in the Faq.

Crozius Arcanums have been defined to be Power Mauls, so a Wolf Priests Crozius Arcanum will have the same profile as every other Crozius Arcanum in the game as listed in the BRB under the entry for power weapons.

As for the (Power weapon) in the codex entry, the Power weapon in the parentheses simply tells you that it is a power weapon, NOT that you get to take any type of power weapon you want..

That's it, no other special rules apply, so use the Power Maul entry as listed in the BRB.

Based on?
Nothing in the SW FAQ has said anything about the corzius, it is called a power weapon in it's entry. Within the context of the SW codex that is calling it a power weapon as the parentheses are used to clarify points in the army list section.

So the codex calls something a power weapon, power weapons are in the rule book as per the codex, look to the rule book and a crozius is whatever it looks like. For now.

Daggum wrote:No actually, it cannot be an axe. In the SW Codex entry for the Wolf Priest they are not given a Power Weapon as part of their wargear.

They are given a Crozius Arcanum (Power weapon) in the listed wargear. And they are not allowed to upgrade it to anything else.

He wasn't asking about upgrading it to anything else.

And they are not changed from having a Crozius Arcanum (Power weapon) to Power Weapon anywhere in the Faq.

What distinction are you seeing there?

Whether it is labelled a generic power weapon, or called a Crozius Arcanum following the rules for power weapons would make no different to its status as a power weapon.

Crozius Arcanums have been defined to be Power Mauls,...

I don't have my rulebook at work... is the Crozius mentioned in the Power Maul entry in the rulebook?

Daggum wrote:No actually, it cannot be an axe. In the SW Codex entry for the Wolf Priest they are not given a Power Weapon as part of their wargear.

They are given a Crozius Arcanum (Power weapon) in the listed wargear. And they are not allowed to upgrade it to anything else.

And they are not changed from having a Crozius Arcanum (Power weapon) to Power Weapon anywhere in the Faq.

Crozius Arcanums have been defined to be Power Mauls, so a Wolf Priests Crozius Arcanum will have the same profile as every other Crozius Arcanum in the game as listed in the BRB under the entry for power weapons.

As for the (Power weapon) in the codex entry, the Power weapon in the parentheses simply tells you that it is a power weapon, NOT that you get to take any type of power weapon you want..

That's it, no other special rules apply, so use the Power Maul entry as listed in the BRB.

You are pulling things out left and right with zero rules support.

the FAQs for several Space Marine codexes came out and defined crozius arcanums for those specific Space Marine chapters. The Space Wolves codex was left untouched in this regard.

The BRB has never labeled crozius arcanums as power mauls. The term crozius arcanum does not even exist in the BRB as far as I can find. The individual FAQs for specific armies did that. Again the Space Wolves FAQ does not do that.

So as it stands, every Space Marine FAQ that specifically classed Crozius Arcanums for their chapters as power mauls indeed use power mauls. The Space Wolves Crozius Arcanums are classed as power weapons and thus their rules are dictated by what is modeled.

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:So as it stands, every Space Marine FAQ that specifically classed Crozius Arcanums for their chapters as power mauls indeed use power mauls. The Space Wolves Crozius Arcanums are classed as power weapons and thus their rules are dictated by what is modeled.

That being said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they wind up added to the FAQ later to bring them in line with everyone else. As such, I wouldn't be altering my Croziuses (crozii? ) just yet... YMMV.

insaniak wrote:

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:So as it stands, every Space Marine FAQ that specifically classed Crozius Arcanums for their chapters as power mauls indeed use power mauls. The Space Wolves Crozius Arcanums are classed as power weapons and thus their rules are dictated by what is modeled.

That being said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they wind up added to the FAQ later to bring them in line with everyone else. As such, I wouldn't be altering my Croziuses (crozii? ) just yet... YMMV.

I think a couple things might point to SW remaining the odd duck out so to speak.

As I mentioned, the wolf priests and Ulrik's special rules were given errata to only work with SW units, just like every other chaplain type special rules.

Rune priests runic weapons were not classed as normal force weapons like many others.

Rune priests retained their specific psychic defense and were not normalized like all hoods were for other chapters.

Iron Priests were brought into line with others.

The point being that GW was knee deep in the details in all the SW priests making changes and retaining some SW unique traits yet did not change over the crozius.

Sure... but the fact that SW had so much else going on is actually what suggests to me that it was an oversight.

I think I'm going to wait until the next round of FAQs and then if they are not defined as power mauls, alter them to be axes.

IMHO an axe is a much better weapon than the maul. While the maul is good for killing scarabs, most armies you face are MEQ, and being able to deliver AP2 hits is much better generally.

Good call labmouse42. It'd be a pain to modify your model then have to undo the modifications!

Personally I like the idea of the Crozius Arcanum being a Power Maul. I get to play against IG, Tau, Tyranids, Eldar, and Dark Eldar on a semi-regular basis and Orks more rarely so the AP:4 doesn't bother me as much. The mathhammer definitely shows that Axes are wicked deadly to Space Marines if you have WS:5 though:

Power Maul: 0.74 (1 dead marine)
Power Axe: 1.77 (2 dead marines)

It's an unusual power weapon.

Now lets get more into detail.

Are you trying to model an ax to get +1 Str? If so then you can't do that.

It's just an unusual power weapon with AP3 and any special ability it my have.

MJThurston wrote:It's an unusual power weapon.

Now lets get more into detail.

Are you trying to model an ax to get +1 Str? If so then you can't do that.

It's just an unusual power weapon with AP3 and any special ability it my have.

It isn't an UPW because it has zero extra rules. It is a straight power weapon.

That makes it AP3 with no bonus to Str.

MJThurston wrote:That makes it AP3 with no bonus to Str.

No. Check the power weapon section again. A non-unusual power weapon must have the model examined to see what kind of weapon it is.

In general, Crozius is a blunt instrument, so it would be a power maul.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to the original question, I would go with the fact that it was an oversight. The other crozius was faq'd as a maul. I would assume that the SW will be as well and make sure that mine has a maul.

Here is the thing. All it says is power weapon. The most basic power weapon is the sword. If it was a power ax or power maul it would say so. So just saying power weapon it would refer to the most basic one. Which is the sword.

To me, saying your power weapon is whatever you want is not part of the rules.

MJThurston wrote:Here is the thing. All it says is power weapon. The most basic power weapon is the sword. If it was a power ax or power maul it would say so. So just saying power weapon it would refer to the most basic one. Which is the sword.

To me, saying your power weapon is whatever you want is not part of the rules.

you are incorrect. There are four 'most basic power weapons': Sword, Maul, Axe and Lance. They are all equally 'basic'.
How do you know which one it is? You look at the model. Check your Rulebook for more info.

In the case of a Crozius, other Codexes had these FAQ'd to be restricted to Power Maul. Currently, SW does not, which allows them to let the model determine it.

Oh so SW's get another broken part of their rules where the player gets to decide what he has. Awesome.

And exactly how is that different from any other codex that has power weapons?

Another GW fail.

So if you take your Maul looking weapon off of your Priest and give him a sword what is it?

It should be a set power weapon and not one to be modeled to the advantage of the person that made it.

So now I can make a vet unit with all axes so that I can get around the AP3 of the sword and actually be able to kill terminators. Awesome.

What you think it should be and what the rules say are two different things.

In order to be WYSIWYG, you'd have to make your model look like he has a Crozius Arcanum. I can see a double headed axe looking like a Crozius Arcanum. I can't see a Sword looking like that.

In either event, the majority of Wolf Priests already have Power Mauls on their models. So this won't be a big deal. The rules do allow you to put whatever kind of power weapon you want on a model that has just a "power weapon", which is currently the case with the Wolf Priest. Its pretty clearly an oversight in the SW FAQ, but until its fixed them's the rules. Given there is a pending FAQ update in August(?) I expect it to be fixed then, so hopefully no one makes any rash decisions.

And yes, MJThurston, you could take a bunch of Wolf Guard Terminators (33 points each) and give them all Axes so they have S5 AP2 if you wanted. The rules allow that. I'd even argue that is more fluffy for the Space Wolves.

Not really broken since it follows the rules for every power weapon in the game. In terms of modelling, Ulrik has a blunt like all the other ones, so I would probably lean towards that. OTOH the only other SW priest model (Rune Priest) has an axe and I know people use that as a WP.

I always though they get thier Invuln from the Crozius? Or is that just fluff?

SW get their invul from a wolf amulet. Normal marines from a rosarius.

Gloomfang wrote:I always though they get thier Invuln from the Crozius? Or is that just fluff?

No, wolf priest have their amulet thing.

MJThurston, you really need to spend some time reading the new rulebook, if you have it. There are many, many units in the game who had a specific type of power weapon that now have a generic power weapon in their wargear entry now due to 6th edition FAQs. It isn't just a SW thing.

Just for the record, there are two wolf priest models,

Ulrik the Slayer
Gamesday 2003 wolf priest

Both have mauls as modeled. However as the rule stands, they can be converted to any type of power weapon until a FAQ classes their crozius' as mauls like other chapters.

Just FYI, there are more rune priest models;

Njal (equipped with his runic staff that is classed as a Unusual Force Weapon)
TDA rune priest (equipped with a runic axe like weapon, but still classed as a Unusual Force Weapon)
PA rune priest (equipped with an runic axe, but classed as a Unusual Force Weapon)

So rune priests are free to model their runic weapons as they please as they are all classed as Unusual Force Weapons.

The wolf priest comes with a Crozius Arcanum, not a power weapon and the Crozius Arcanum is a power maul. I don't see why a SW would be allowed to change this.

Besides...AP4 with +2 strength is still pretty good! Consider that Necron Warriors and Eldar all have 4+ armor.

EDIT : Ok...I don't have my rules in front of me so be kind. Remember that in order to field a force of space wolves, you need BOTH the SW codex and the SM codex. If the FAQ for SM says that a Crozius Arcanum is a power maul, and the SW codex says that the wolf priest has a Crozius, then I think it's reasonable to expect all wolf priests to take the crozius as a power maul. However, there may (or may not) be options to pay points to upgrade to a different weapon, (check me on that!) in which case you could pay points and take the power weapon of choice.

Again, I don't have me codex to hand. But if there is some RAW that says Crozius Arcanum (as power weapon), I think it's obviously an oversight by GW.