Can a SW Wolf Preist's Crozius Arcanum be a Power Axe?

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**pretre**

Grugknuckle wrote:The wolf priest comes with a Crozius Arcanum, not a power weapon and the Crozius Arcanum is a power maul. I don't see why a SW would be allowed to change this.

If only it was this clearcut.

C:SM has a "Crozius Arcanum" and this was FAQ'd to be a Power Maul.
C:SW has a "Crozius Arcanum (Power Weapon)" and this has not been FAQ'd.

So until FAQ'd, C:SW just has a power weapon called Crozius Arcanum, which follows the Power Weapon rules. C:SM has a Power Maul called Crozius Arcanum which follows the Power Maul rules.

**Grugknuckle**

I don't have my codex to hand, so I'll take your word for it. It looks like RAW, it's a power weapon. But I still think that it's an obvious oversight.

It's no wonder everyone get's pissed at my puppies.

**pretre**

Yeah, the folks on page 1 said it was an oversight.

**Tyr Grimtooth**

Grugknuckle wrote:The wolf priest comes with a Crozius Arcanum, not a power weapon and the Crozius Arcanum is a power maul. I don't see why a SW would be allowed to change this.

Besides...AP4 with +2 strength is still pretty good! Consider that Necron Warriors and Eldar all have 4+ armor.

EDIT : Ok...I don't have my rules in front of me so be kind. Remember that in order to field a force of space wolves, you need BOTH the SW codex and the SM codex. If the FAQ for SM says that a Crozius Arcanum is a power maul, and the SW codex says that the wolf priest has a Crozius, then I think it's reasonable to expect all wolf priests to take the crozius as a power maul. However, there may (or may not) be options to pay points to upgrade to a different weapon, (check me on that!) in which case you could pay points and take the power weapon of choice.

Again, I don't have me codex to hand. But if there is some RAW that says Crozius Arcanum (as power weapon), I think it's obviously an oversight by GW.

The Space Marine FAQ addressed chaplains and what they are equipped with and set them to power weapon type maul. The exact same thing was applied in the BA and DA fAQs. No such change was made in the SW FAQ in regard to Wolf Priests. Wolf priests are still equipped with Crozius Arcanum (power weapon).

It could be an oversight, but thinking about the fact that wolf priests are supposed to also be the SW apothecaries, without actually having any apothecary type rules, maybe GW is throwing them a bone in the form of allowing them power weapon options.

**grendel083**

As I mentioned before, I think the SW crozius not being defined as a maul is an oversight which will likely be FAQ'd.

I also think when given the option of a generic 'power weapon' a player is free to model it however they wish and gain the benefits.

However in the case of the SW Crozius I feel it would be wrong to class it as anything other than a maul. In more than one FAQ a crozius is defined as a maul (and there's been more than one case of another armies FAQ setting a precedence). Fluff-wise its always a maul. Any and all models (Space Wolf or otherwise) armed with a Crozius has always shown a maul.

Using a Crozius as an Axe is twisting the rules too far I feel.

**Grugknuckle**

grendel083 wrote:As I mentioned before, I think the SW crozius not being defined as a maul is an oversight which will likely be FAQ'd.

I also think when given the option of a generic 'power weapon' a player is free to model it however they wish and gain the benefits.

However in the case of the SW Crozius I feel it would be wrong to class it as anything other than a maul. In more than one FAQ a crozius is defined as a maul (and there's been more than one case of another armies FAQ setting a precedence). Fluff-wise its always a maul. Any and all models (Space Wolf or otherwise) armed with a Crozius has always shown a maul.

Using a Crozius as an Axe is twisting the rules too far I feel.

Agreed 100%. The Crozius Arcanum is a Chaplain's badge of office. The Wolf Priests are the Chaplains of the Space Wolves chapter, that's why they have a Crozius. I'll be crossing my fingers for a FAQ on this, and some of the other SW issues.

**Tyr Grimtooth**

grendel083 wrote:As I mentioned before, I think the SW crozius not being defined as a maul is an oversight which will likely be FAQ'd.

I also think when given the option of a generic 'power weapon' a player is free to model it however they wish and gain the benefits.

However in the case of the SW Crozius I feel it would be wrong to class it as anything other than a maul. In more than one FAQ a crozius is defined as a maul (and there's been more than one case of another armies FAQ setting a precedence). Fluff-wise its always a maul. Any and all models (Space Wolf or otherwise) armed with a Crozius has always shown a maul.

Using a Crozius as an Axe is twisting the rules too far I feel.

And what is an apothecary equipped with? A narthecium that allows FnP. A Sanguinary Priest? A Blood Chalice that grants FnP and Furious Charge, while able to purchase a power weapon, lightning claw, or powerfist.

My point being that a wolf priest is not just a "chaplain" but is also supposed to be an "apothecary". He already has rules akin to chaplains and allowing him a power weapon choice could be a concession towards his dual role. Like I said, could be an oversight or could be intentional due to the dual nature a wolf priest is supposed to represent.

**grendel083**

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:And what is an apothecary equipped with? A narthecium that allows FnP. A Sanguinary Priest? A Blood Chalice that grants FnP and Furious Charge, while able to purchase a power weapon, lightning claw, or powerfist.

My point being that a wolf priest is not just a "chaplain" but is also supposed to be an "apothecary". He already has rules akin to chaplains and allowing him a power weapon choice could be a concession towards his dual role. Like I said, could be an oversight or could be intentional due to the dual nature a wolf priest is supposed to represent.

Yes they Fulfill a dual roll. But they still use a Crozius as a badge of office.
They haven't been equipped with actual Apothecary equipment since second edition.
I can't guess at what GW's intention is, maybe they are "throwing them a bone" (pun intended) but that's still just guess-work.

**pretre**

They could take herbs and balms in the 3rd edition codex.

**Grugknuckle**

grendel083 wrote:
Yes they Fulfill a dual roll. But they still use a Crozius as a badge of office.
They haven't been equipped with actual Apothecary equipment since second edition.
I can't guess at what GW's intention is, maybe they are "throwing them a bone" (pun intended) but that's still just guess-work.

Most likely, they were just careless. That seems to be a pretty common trait among GW's rules team.

**grendel083**

Grugknuckle wrote:
grendel083 wrote:
Yes they Fulfill a dual roll. But they still use a Crozius as a badge of office.
They haven't been equipped with actual Apothecary equipment since second edition.
I can't guess at what GW's intention is, maybe they are "throwing them a bone" (pun intended) but that's still just guess-work.

Most likely, they were just careless. That seems to be a pretty common trait among GW's rules team.

Agreed.

**Tyr Grimtooth**

pretre wrote:They could take herbs and balms in the 3rd edition codex.

Yup, which mysteriously vanished in 5th edition. Boo!!!

Oversight or intended, we will see come next FAQ.

**cowmonaut**

Grugknuckle wrote:Ok...I don't have my rules in front of me so be kind. Remember that in order to field a force of space wolves, you need BOTH the SW codex and the SM codex.

This hasn't been true since the 5th edition Codex came out.

**Tyr Grimtooth**

grendel083 wrote:
Tyr Grimtooth wrote:And what is an apothecary equipped with? A narthecium that allows FnP. A Sanguinary Priest? A Blood Chalice that grants FnP and Furious Charge, while able to purchase a power weapon, lightning claw, or powerfist.

My point being that a wolf priest is not just a "chaplain" but is also supposed to be an "apothecary". He already has rules akin to chaplains and allowing him a power weapon choice could be a concession towards his dual role. Like I said, could be an oversight or could be intentional due to the dual nature a wolf priest is supposed to represent.

Yes they Fulfill a dual roll. But they still use a Crozius as a badge of office.
They haven't been equipped with actual Apothecary equipment since second edition.
I can't guess at what GW's intention is, maybe they are "throwing them a bone" (pun intended) but that's still just guess-work.

I went throught the BA, DA, BT, and SM codexes and every single one of them mention that the crozius arcanum is the chaplains "rod of office".

Checking the wolf priest entry, not once is their crozius mentioned as a badge or rod of office. In fact, their fluff entry actually emphasizes the importance of the Fang of Morkai, with only a small blurb about the crozius arcanum.

Referencing Ulrik the Slayer, it does mention in his fluff entry that his crozius is indeed his badge of office. However they then go on to not even give him a crozius in his wargear entry or in his army list entry, but instead he is equipped with a power weapon.

So, not saying it isn't an oversight, but looking a little deeper it appears that generic wolf priests are being led to follow in the footsteps of the named wolf priest and are equipped with power weapons, not mauls.

**cowmonaut**

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:My point being that a wolf priest is not just a "chaplain" but is also supposed to be an "apothecary". He already has rules akin to chaplains and allowing him a power weapon choice could be a concession towards his dual role. Like I said, could be an oversight or could be intentional due to the dual nature a wolf priest is supposed to represent.

I'd like to point you to one of his wargear items: Fang of Morkai. The rules for it are different, but its a narthecium fluff wise. That's what acknowledges his dual role.

**Tyr Grimtooth**

cowmonaut wrote:
Tyr Grimtooth wrote:My point being that a wolf priest is not just a "chaplain" but is also supposed to be an "apothecary". He already has rules akin to chaplains and allowing him a power weapon choice could be a concession towards his dual role. Like I said, could be an oversight or could be intentional due to the dual nature a wolf priest is supposed to represent.

I'd like to point you to one of his wargear items: Fang of Morkai. The rules for it are different, but its a narthecium fluff wise. That's what acknowledges his dual role.

I have left my house and thus my codexes behind, but a Narthecium grants FnP, not Fearless like the Fang of Morkai.

**liturgies of blood**

As cowmanaut said rules wise they are different, fluff wise the same. SW are fearless when they know their gene seed is going to be passed on.

**insaniak**

Grugknuckle wrote: Remember that in order to field a force of space wolves, you need BOTH the SW codex and the SM codex.

No you don't. You did with the previous Space Wolf codex, which was a supplemental book that just added extra units to Codex Space Marines. The current book is completely standalone and doesn't reference Codex: Space Marines at all.

**liturgies of blood**

insaniak wrote:
Grugknuckle wrote: Remember that in order to field a force of space wolves, you need BOTH the SW codex and the SM codex.

No you don't. You did with the previous Space Wolf codex, which was a supplemental book that just added extra units to Codex Space Marines. The current book is completely standalone and doesn't reference Codex: Space Marines at all.

This, we haven't had printed codices that require another codex to be fully utilised since 3rd ed.

**juraigamer**

All crozius weapons are what they are by FAQ, and it states they are mauls. If you remove the head for an axe, it's still a maul.

**insaniak**

juraigamer wrote:...and it states they are mauls.

Where?

**Tyr Grimtooth**

juraigamer wrote:All crozius weapons are what they are by FAQ, and it states they are mauls. If you remove the head for an axe, it's still a maul.

Go ahead and show me in the SW FAQ where it states they are mauls. I can wait.

**pretre**

I think he's referring to the C:SM faq.

**Tyr Grimtooth**

pretre wrote:I think he's referring to the C:SM faq.

Topic at hand is SW wolf priest and their Crozius Arcanum (power weapon). I know you know Pretre, obviously he doesn't.

**grendel083**

pretre wrote:I think he's referring to the C:SM faq.

Or the Blood Angels FAQ
Or the Black Templars FAQ
Or the Dark Angels FAQ....

**Tyr Grimtooth**

grendel083 wrote:
pretre wrote:I think he's referring to the C:SM faq.

Or the Blood Angels FAQ
Or the Black Templars FAQ
Or the Dark Angels FAQ....

but not the Space Wolves FAQ.....

**Grugknuckle**

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
grendel083 wrote:
pretre wrote:I think he's referring to the C:SM faq.

Or the Blood Angels FAQ
Or the Black Templars FAQ
Or the Dark Angels FAQ....

but not the Space Wolves FAQ.....

A model example of GW's consistency. Still ... my vote is in favor of consistency. A Crozius Arcanum should be a power maul.

**UltraPrime**

Grugknuckle wrote:Remember that in order to field a force of space wolves, you need BOTH the SW codex and the SM codex.

You most certainly do not. Not since the 3rd Edition codex, anyway.

**Grugknuckle**

UltraPrime wrote:
Grugknuckle wrote:Remember that in order to field a force of space wolves, you need BOTH the SW codex and the SM codex.

You most certainly do not. Not since the 3rd Edition codex, anyway.

Yep. I didn't believe all of the people who corrected me at first, so I went home and looked. It used to be that you would look up "power of the machine spirit", or something, and it would say, see codex space marines. I was sure that this had not changed. But I was wrong.