Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ive been looking at my codexs and ive been noticing that there are certain things that just seem stupid and really need working on.
So thats what this thread is for. Somewere you can mention those stupid rules/points costs/ etc and how you would change them.

IG

Armoured Sentinels-I love these-they have a great roll as a mobile fire support base able to advance with the infantry and provide heavy fire support. The problem? They cost the same as a chimera yet have only half the hard points half the speed and cant carry troops. Ide rather they were 35-40 points. Also the plasma cannon should be cheaper-only around 15 points max.

Sargents. I still dont understand why they cant take lasguns. I mean why not? SM sargents take bolt guns. let sargents take lasguns.

Simple lock it in a room with Matt Ward, red bull and lots off sugar filled junk food. Shake well and presto. I firmly believe this is what they do to the guy at HQ.

I think the cost difference between Sentinals and Chimaeras can be adequately explained by the difference in weapons and roles - Transports tend to be cheaper(usually), and have fewer weapons options. The Sentinals can A) be take in a squad, and B) Have lots more weapons options. That's why they cost more.

As for my codex(Eldar), it does have over-costed transports. Now, they have the opposite idea as other transports - they can mount any weapon, which is rare. I would lower their cost by 25 points - then they are 65 points plus options, rather than 90. Also, Phoenix lords need a 4+ inv. It's ridiculous that only the Avenger lord has one.

I would like to see ghost arks slightly cheaper(maybe 90 - 100 points), the model looks amazing but eats up so many points to try and field it.

Make flayed ones good at something... they have great models but are junk right now.

Really I know the codex is great in many areas and OP in others but the two models I mentioned are great looking but are either over priced or just not good at anything.

what an IG realy needs is access to battle fortifications , but non of the 1 per army all armies get . The fluff about IG is that they drop whole pre constructed battle fortresses . 2-3 aegis lines with quad guns or a combination of bastion and aegis would make IG a lot better.

Ah an vendettas and valks costing 15-25pts less.

Orks:

Weirdboy/Warphead: Roll on the ork table for one/two powers. Allow pyromancy as replacement. If anyone should be able to set things on fire with their mind, it's orks.

Thrakka: Fix Prophet of the Waagh! to do something meaningful again.

Mad Doc Grotznik: One Scalpell Short of a Medpack should also confer rage. Or drop stupid raging transport FAQ.

MANz: Allow boss pole and Waagh! banner upgrades.

Meks(burnaz/lootaz): Allow boss poles

Kommandoz: Add random special rule (stealth? rending? fear?). There is no point in them currently, except looking good while being shot dead.

Warbikers: Drop points per model to about 20.

Storm boyz: Drop points per model to about 10.

Deff Koptaz: Allow mek as squad leader with boss pole.

Blitza bommer: Add anti-vehicle missile option, similar to skorcha bommers.

Looted Wagon: Available as dedicated transport without boomgun option.

Battlewagon: Half killkannon cost -or - double range.

Big gunz: Zzap gun should auto-hit again.

Deff dread: Option for exhaust cloud - or - free weapon upgrades.

Flash gits: Should come with all weapon upgrades for free.

Wrecking ball: Reduce to 5 points

KMB: Make it assault 2. Yes, this doubles the chance of killing yourself.

All units: Allow trukk, looted wagon and battlewagon as dedicated transports for every unit that can fit inside.

 Jidmah wrote:
Orks:

Weirdboy/Warphead: Roll on the ork table for one/two powers. Allow pyromancy as replacement. If anyone should be able to set things on fire with their mind, it's orks.

Thrakka: Fix Prophet of the Waagh! to do something meaningful again.

Mad Doc Grotznik: One Scalpell Short of a Medpack should also confer rage. Or drop stupid raging transport FAQ.

MANz: Allow boss pole and Waagh! banner upgrades.

Meks(burnaz/lootaz): Allow boss poles

Kommandoz: Add random special rule (stealth? rending? fear?). There is no point in them currently, except looking good while being shot dead.

Warbikers: Drop points per model to about 20.

Storm boyz: Drop points per model to about 10.

Deff Koptaz: Allow mek as squad leader with boss pole.

Blitza bommer: Add anti-vehicle missile option, similar to skorcha bommers.

Looted Wagon: Available as dedicated transport without boomgun option.

Battlewagon: Half killkannon cost -or - double range.

Big gunz: Zzap gun should auto-hit again.

Deff dread: Option for exhaust cloud - or - free weapon upgrades.

Flash gits: Should come with all weapon upgrades for free.

Wrecking ball: Reduce to 5 points

KMB: Make it assault 2. Yes, this doubles the chance of killing yourself.

All units: Allow trukk, looted wagon and battlewagon as dedicated transports for every unit that can fit inside.

\

Agreed, less chaos for Warpheads would make me consider them.

Thrakka is less viable now in my mine but i'm certain he won't remain that way

Mad Dok: Agreed rage or just a retweak in general

MANz: I feel like they are viable they just need to be lead by a warboss at this time, I'd like to see a typical cybork body upgrade for them tho...

I am okay with how meks work tbh

Kommandoz: Rending might be nice but ultimately i think they need to consider adjusting armor or giving more viability to them perhaps better stats than traditional orks, higher init or even some sort of surprise attack rule which can reduce enemy init to 1 if charged in difficult terrain or anti vehicle option. Who knows...

Warbikes: agreed

Storm boyz: even then i just don't think they will work for even 10 pts they break ahead of the horde too fast and are peppered too easy, armor 4 would make them pretty good to me, 11 pts, armor 4 and then yeah I'd consider them easily a dab more expensive than ard boyz for the speed but ultimately knowing it will take more heat than traditional boyz. should make them a very viable unit.

Deffkoptaz: Agreed the unit needs to break less often

Killkannon: YES

Zzap guns: or at least longer range or less variables like strength 5+ d6, if a 1 is rolled resolve the shot at the squad itself rather than the target, if a 6 is rolled melta or... maybe lose one gretchin automatically or something.

Deff Dredd: agreed it needs to cost less than a Marine Dreddy if it's going to go after it and 90% of others

Flash Gitz: This... this so much though i am seriously begining to consider them as an aggressive unit in a battlewagon to kill cheesemongers who take ageis defense line and go to ground...

Wrecking ball: Meh, or just free since trukks and such normally explode unless a battlewagon round 1 of firing.

KMB: Since it's based off Melta guns... how about a melta rule?! *grumble*

all units; THIS SO MUCH!

Lastly: How about some damn Searchlights already?!

Giving Sang Guard the option for an Invuln would make me take them. Making regular our librarians not suck for DA would also be a nice boost

Dark Eldar:

Drazhar does not need to join an Incubi unit, he can go wherever the F he wants.

The Decapitator can join Mandrakes.

The Court of the Archon does not require a min of one of each type.

Lhamaen affects all weapons, not all poisoned weapons. But it's decreased to poisoned (4+).

Haemonculi get a special rule that allows them to join Mandrakes.

Incubi are AP 2 and the option for plasma grenades upgrade (might be too much.. but they are T3 and 22 points).

Raiders' transport capacity is 11 (and suddenly wyches get better)

You can assault out of WWPs.

Huskblade is AP2 (only the S3 Archon can take it and it's over 30 points, at AP3 it is a terrible option).

Make Praetorians have an extra attack or so
Give Lychguard a 2+ save
Make flayed ones....useful

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

MANz: I feel like they are viable they just need to be lead by a warboss at this time, I'd like to see a typical cybork body upgrade for them tho...

I am okay with how meks work tbh

I think it's bad unit design to be required to field an HQ with them. How many marine units require a character to be present to not be ridiculously weak?

Pretty much the same for burnaz and lootaz. I'd happily have a nob for either unit, but that's more wish-listing than a necessary improvement.

Storm boyz: even then i just don't think they will work for even 10 pts they break ahead of the horde too fast and are peppered too easy, armor 4 would make them pretty good to me, 11 pts, armor 4 and then yeah I'd consider them easily a dab more expensive than ard boyz for the speed but ultimately knowing it will take more heat than traditional boyz. should make them a very viable unit.

You probably could drop them to 9 points, making a full unit lead by a nob 220 points, a unit of vulcha boyz 265. Still don't break the bank, but at least somewhere in the ballpark of boyz. At 280 points for a regular unit they are definitely not going to see any play.

Wrecking ball: Meh, or just free since trukks and such normally explode unless a battlewagon round 1 of firing.

I don't think free is the way to go. At 5 points it would be on par with grabbin klaws and boarding planks, have the same issues, but still see play.

KMB: Since it's based off Melta guns... how about a melta rule?! *grumble*

Melta would not make it any better. The problem is that the KMB is more likely to harm the firer than the target. By doubling the fire rate you at least make sure that you get the other bastard, too
It could also have one of the more funky types, like beam.

Tau are easy:

Step 1: Reduce all the points costs of everything in the codex. The units are horrendously overpriced in comparison to ther codeces. I'd say a 10-15% overall decrease would do wonders.

Step 2: Include all the awesome stuff from the forgeworld into the codex. (except the manta because of practical use)

And BAM! Now Tau have an awesome codex!

Orks:

Flashgits and Meganobz should be upgrades to a regular Nob unit.

Painboyz should be their own unit entry like Sanguinary Priests. And be able to join whatever unit they want.

Painboyz should not have to take the Docs Tools and 'Urty Syringe. Providing the joined unit with Cybork bodies but not Feel No Pain.

Waaagh!!! should allow all Ork units to charge the full 12 inches.

Big Meks and Meks should repair D3 hull points if the target vehicle has grot riggers.

There should be a character who makes a viable grot list. (Kans as Elites and such).

On top of the other things that the Ork players have said:

Trukk - Give it exhaust cloud and increase capacity to 15.

Make Mega Armor an upgrade for Nobz. Seriously, everybody else gets FNP termies. +1 T could also make sense for an addition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:

Painboyz as an IC Elite (or like Techpriests, and not take up a slot).

Weirdboyz be 1-3 and take up an Elite slot.

C:SM. Either lower the cost for tactical marines OR give them a CCW.

Grey Hunters need to be less points! Right guys? Right...? Right? OH GOD NOT THE TORCHES!

What Codex? Okay, okay, I'm joking.

Off the top of my head:

Sisters of Battle
Bring back 2E Sacred Rites (adjust efficiency to allow usage alongside 3E/5E AoF)
Bring back 3E wargear (Blessed Weapon, Cloak of St. Aspira, Mantle of Ophelia, etc.)
Bring back 3E Shield of Faith (improved anti-psyker save instead of 5E's 6+ Invul save)
Bring back 3E Palatine (“Canoness Light“) as HQ choice
Add Novices (carapace + lasgun) and Frateris Militia (CCW + laspistol) as cheap Infantry choices
Add Valkyrie Dropship and Lightning Attack Fighter as Transport / Fast Attack choices
Add CJ Dominica Drop Pods as Transport / Support choices
Allow Celestians to equip shields to further differentiate them from normal SoB infantry (rules) and Seraphim (fluff)
Allow each faithful unit to pick from a uniform list of Acts of Faith; no fixed association
Adjust Faith Point calculation (battle size consideration instead of a fixed 1d6)
Adjust unit point costs (some SC are too cheap, some normal units too expensive)
Change Ally "Black Templars" from Desperate Allies to Battle Brothers
Change Ally "Space Wolves" from Allies of Convenience to Desperate Allies
Change Ally "Eldar" from Desperate Allies to Come the Apocalypse
Change Ally "Dark Eldar" from Desperate Allies to Come the Apocalypse
Change Ally "Tau" from Desperate Allies to Come the Apocalypse

Needless to say, that's just the rules.

Blood Angels:

Sanguinary Guard get a blood chalice for +25 points on the sergeant (FNP + Furious Charge)

Vanguard Veterans and Death Company jump packs reduced to 10 points per model, instead of 15.

Vanguard Veterans can assault when deep striking out of stormravens, if equipped with jump packs.

I just fixed the blood angels

Krieg

Make Grenadier heavy weapons take only 1 man to use them (heavy flamer is already a 1 man weapon weapon in the IG codex, and the heavy stubber seems to be 1 manned as well for the cultists in DV)

Give the option for the Grenadier watchmaster to have a power fist (regular watchmaster can have one)

Lower the price of the Grenadier

Give some sort of AA unit to the regiment

Give them more artillery variation, like the collossus

Remove all the ''must wait a round to reload their weapon (looking at you, bombard)''

Well I would add some of the things from the normal space marine Codex like sternguard veteran and a better make your own company master option and the dreadnought rules more in like with the normal codex. Other then that Im quite happy with the Dark Angels codex. Maybe do something to make the ravenwing have a little bit more cool stuff.

For my C:SM I would love to be able to take some kind of buff to my army, like chapter tactics but not restricted to the Special Character. kinda like what the Emperor's champion did for the BT.

for example, maybe have tactics that include seige specialists, maybe adding an extra H/S for every F/A you take away (think Iron warriors). I really want to see imperial fists be more represented than just one (albiet awesome) guy. may or may not include stubborn.

If only...

Codex Daemons:

a) Remove the f ing rolling for waves bull !!!
Everything else about our current deployment I'd keep the same as it's an awsome rule. What kills our army is the stupid randomness for randomness sake that means in 33% of your games, you're outright screwed over, or else you have to take a really boring army of multiple identical units to combat an idiotic rule!

b) Lower the cost of Icons by at least 10pts. Or else give each Icon an ability unique to the patron God of the unit that carries it. But seriously, 25pts for a piddly little no scatter bubble, that half the armies in th egame can also 'turn off' is god damn stupid!
Only reason I include any at all is because some of my units are modeled with them, and there's a tonne of local tournament nutter who either force you to play 110% WYSIWYG or else tell you to get the model off the table.

c) Give each Herald a bonus ability they can confer upon the basic Troops of their patron God. Ie: a Herald of Khorne gives Rage to a unit of Bloodletters he's joined, Herald of Nurgle gives increased FnP, Herald of Tzeentch gives +1 invuln save (because we know Horrors will be going down to just the basic 5++), Herald of Slaanesh could give something like Hit-and-Run or a 40k version of ASF?!
Oh, and allow 1-3 Heralds as an HQ choice, but limit their options so they're more like a Necron Royal Court.

d) Bring back Exalted Daemons as an HQ choice. Basically a statline akin to a Space Marine captain, but with the added ability to give them a Mark of Chaos and plenty of options for customisation!

e) Add Daemon engines. Not the half-baked versions the CSM's get, but more true daemon engines like the Soul Grinder!

f) Bring back the likes of Plagueriders (plaguebearers on beasts of nurgle), Pleaserseekers (exalted alluresses on fiends of Slaanesh) and Changebringers (a pair of Flamers on a Disc). Or else some kind of equivalent option that gives each god a 'heavy/super elite' troop type.

g) Re-giggle the pts costs across the current codex. Our Troops are horrendously over-costed for example, while options like a Tzeentch Herald on chariot are too cheap.

h) Give us a hard-counter to Grey Knights so we can show them how much fun it is to not even be allowed to fething deploy on the table!



And above all else, KEEP MAT WARD THE FETH AWAY FROM THE THIS BOOK!!!

For the love of Chaos, he's already proven he can't write a Daemon book that won't ruin the entire game, let's not let him pollute 40k and destroy 6th edition the way he utterly killed all of 7th edition Fantasy!!!

 Lynata wrote:

Sisters of Battle

Lemme reply here...

Bring back 2E Sacred Rites (adjust efficiency to allow usage alongside 3E/5E AoF) Meh, I can see it, but not sure.. Wasn't ever a fan of those/
Bring back 3E wargear (Blessed Weapon, Cloak of St. Aspira, Mantle of Ophelia, etc.) Yes!
Bring back 3E Shield of Faith (improved anti-psyker save instead of 5E's 6+ Invul save) I like my idea of keeping SoF and just allowing Sisters to Deny the Witch with bonuses equal to their faith point bonus for a squad (+1 for IC, +1 for Sgt, +1 for Casualty)
Bring back 3E Palatine (“Canoness Light“) as HQ choice Meh.
Add Novices (carapace + lasgun) and Frateris Militia (CCW + laspistol) as cheap Infantry choices Yeck. Just bring back redemptionists instead.
Add Valkyrie Dropship and Lightning Attack Fighter as Transport / Fast Attack choices This would be crazy. You mean Valks as transports for all units?
Add CJ Dominica Drop Pods as Transport / Support choices Not a fan of adding DP
Allow Celestians to equip shields to further differentiate them from normal SoB infantry (rules) and Seraphim (fluff) Sure. And let them swap faith acts with the CCS
Allow each faithful unit to pick from a uniform list of Acts of Faith; no fixed association Okay, I can dig it
Adjust Faith Point calculation (battle size consideration instead of a fixed 1d6) Sure
Adjust unit point costs (some SC are too cheap, some normal units too expensive) I don't think we're that bad right now...
Change Ally "Black Templars" from Desperate Allies to Battle Brothers Sure
Change Ally "Space Wolves" from Allies of Convenience to Desperate Allies Sure
Change Ally "Eldar" from Desperate Allies to Come the Apocalypse Sure
Change Ally "Dark Eldar" from Desperate Allies to Come the Apocalypse Sure
Change Ally "Tau" from Desperate Allies to Come the Apocalypse Not sure why? They aren't witches, just xenos... I can dig it either way though

 YotsubaSnake wrote:
Tau are easy:

Step 1: Reduce all the points costs of everything in the codex. The units are horrendously overpriced in comparison to ther codeces. I'd say a 10-15% overall decrease would do wonders.

Step 2: Include all the awesome stuff from the forgeworld into the codex. (except the manta because of practical use)

And BAM! Now Tau have an awesome codex!

can we has target locks back please?

also would love it if marker beacons were a purchasable equipment for d fish, i hate taking the pathfinders for it (also mabye remove the pathfinder dfish requirement)

Make Khans Bike Cheaper,
Remove eternal warrior from Lysander, or up him by 50pts
Remove all but two of the UM special Chracters(Calgar and the librarian)
Give Vanguard vets there JP for the base cost.
Master of the Forge.....Stays the same.
Give options to Captains/Masters. Like, for 100pts they can count as a monsterous creature. Or give them the abilities to changes their stats.
Dreadnoughts are characters.

Dark eldar(in addition to Red Viper's post)

Archon and/or Succubus should get the option to be mounted on a reaver... Or alternately, a reaver HQ.

Kheradruakh could use the Fear USR, or just make him a daemon. Allowed to assault out of reserve. Also make it so he can bring mandrakes as troops option, additionally, mandrakes who he joined can use his special deployment.

Mandrakes could use the Shred USR, and stealth + shrouded if possible, or just shrouded(instead of stealth). Alternately, cheaper price.

Court of Archon to be like Necron's Royal court: Can be used to lead other units.

Incubi could, alternately, get a special rule that allows them to charge into terrain but use their own initiative, but not getting to throw grenade, so they can keep that monk image. If they're not getting unit-wide AP2, they should get a 5++ parry save, just so they can stand better against other elite assault units of other armies...

Not sure about raider getting transport capacity of 11, I don't like that number... And I think wyches are beyond help anyway!

Grant me a decent official codex, that don`t leave me stranded with useless SoB

Make sentinels cheaper, so starting players will have a solid support unit in the battleforce. I hate telling starting players that the sentinel they get is about as useful as a paperweight. 3 scout sentinels with lascannons cost 20 points MORE than a vendetta, which is tougher, twinlinked, can do all the stuff the sentinels can, is faster, and can carry troops. Tell me how that works. And the price difference for armored ones is even worse.

If priests and techpriests got a small reduction in price, they'd be more common as well. You pay so much for such trivial abilites, they're extremely rare. That, or make the priest tougher, so he's worth his price

Also, raise the price on the vendetta. The thing is a flying tank. It's price should reflect that.

Other than that, make penal legion be able to be taken in mobs of 10 to 30. If you read the fluff, they're often deployed in waves like conscripts. Sending them on their own in little ten man units (aside from the last chancers) is just stupid. Plus, 30 outflanking penal legionnaires would be awesome. I don't care to much about rolling the ability, but it would be nice if you were just forced to buy one of the upgrades and just got to choose which you wanted.

For IG doctrines to feature more in some way. Be it adding more to the existing list of veteran doctrines or having a refined version of the old doctrines system, I really think that this would make the Guard more unique for each player. Although it could be argued that the old doctrines system was unbalanced and unwieldy, it wasn't compulsory and neither would the new one be. I also reckon that this would give the average guardsman a bit more punch and make infantry be seen as another option besides cannon-fodder or holding troops.

Oh and some of the wargear options from codex spacemarine would make Dark Angels so much nicer. Not everything but some of it. And for Gods sake leave my deathwing alone.