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So, a friend of mine has played this list since 6th hit and has built up a win record of 20 wins 0 losses. It has fallen to me to build a list and stop him in his tracks. Without further ado here is his list (some things might be slightly wrong, it is from memory):

HQ
Warboss - mega armour, cyborg body, TL - Big Shooter, PK
Big mek - KFF

ELITES
14 Looters with x2 meks

TROOPS
5 Mega nobs - PK, TL - Big Shooters
Deff dread - x2 CCW, Scorcher, maybe a big/shooter

HEAVY
Battle wagon - grot riggers, Big shooter, deff roller
Battle wagon - grot riggers, Big shooter, deff roller

Hi, just a couple of things before we can get started. One is just a quick correction to the list. Lootas are Elites and not Heavy Support, not that that really matters. Not really sure why he's running Meks in that squad but hey.

Also, in order to build a list we need to know which armies you have.

Kill the meganobs and warboss, hold one objective.

then /flex, /point, /laugh

sorry i just can't see how this is 20-0 with only one scoring unit.

Vulkan 190
Master of the Forge 100

5 Sternguard w combimelta in drop pod 185
5 Sternguard w combimelta in drop pod 185
1 Dreadnought in drop pod 140

10 Scouts w Bolter + ML 180
10 Snipers w camocloaks + ML 180

1 Dreadnought MM/HF in drop pod 150
1 Dreadnought MM/HF in drop pod 150
1 Dreadnought MM/HF in drop pod 150

His list is countint on the battlewagon + KFF to keep him alive. If those go up in smoke early, he is shot. The Deff dreads are there for a stand-off force to keep you away.

1st turn drop one dread plust the 2 sternguard. Your goal is to frag the two battlewagons on the first turn. 10 TL meltas and 1 TL multi-melta should at least get one of them.

The MoF reinforces a ruin and your snipers hide in there taking their 3++ cover saves. The other scout can either outflank or also set up depending on whether you go first or not.

I am figuring this is about 1500. If it is more, then add two Storm Talons. If you have the points add a conversion beamer to the MOF.


As an alternative:

1 Vulkan 190

5 Assault termies in landraider 450
1 MM/HF dread 115
1 MM/HF dread 115

10 Tacticals w Melta and combi-melta and melta bomb 185
10 Tacticals w Melta and combi-melta and melta bomb 185

1 landraider 250
1 landraider 250


Everything goes in landraiders except 1 tactical. He has nothing to deal with raiders except for the 2 dreads and the warboss. I know this list needs trimming but that should be easily accomplished. The landraiders do the 12" move the first turn. The dreads hide behind the raiders. The TL lascannons should drop the dreads ASAP. Then you should be able to kill him quickly with terminators assaulting the wagons. The tacticals are there to plant the flag on objectives.

 Rampage wrote:
Lootas are Elites and not Heavy Support

OK thats now corrected.

The armies I use are Chaos (waiting for the new dex), Dark Angels (again waiting for the new dex), so that leave Eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

spongemonkee wrote:
sorry i just can't see how this is 20-0 with only one scoring unit.

He only plays TO THE DEATH games, he hates objective missions, (he don't see any point to them). This does p*** me off a little.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DAaddict wrote:

I am figuring this is about 1500.

It's actually 1000 points. pretty tough to deal with in such low points games.

so... basically, he refuses to play the actual game.

yeah, dude, not worth your time, that's a player I'd ignore. He's destructive to your local meta.

 GimlisonofGloin wrote:
He only plays TO THE DEATH games, he hates objective missions, (he don't see any point to them). This does p*** me off a little.

So basically, he says he'll only play you if you play a game where it is essentially the first player to table their opponent wins, then he brings 6 2+ armour save models with between 2 and 3 wounds each, and 2 armour 14 vehicles to a 1,000pt game. It's not really worth playing him, he only seems to play people when they agree to play a game that he can't lose.

I'm an Eldar player too so we can have a decent shot of making a list that will take him ages to table, but eventually those Lootas will weigh you down. You'll want to be taking as many Lances as possible to bring down the Battlewagons and Mega-Armoured Nobz, but then you'll have to take vehicles to get enough. This is postive because at least then you have speed but realistically how many Eldar vehicles can you fit in 1,000pts. Not many, the Lootas will take them down one by one and you won't have enough turns of shooting to bring him down. So you'll need Scatter Lasers to take down the Lootas, but then you're reducing the number of Bright Lances that you can take. Maybe just take 2 vehicles with Scatter Lasers (Wave Serpents probably) and put cheap Dire Avenger squads in them, a standard Farseer, and then try and get some Lances in there somehow, preferably vehicle mounted.

Or just refuse to play him unless you're using book missions.

Belial
Interrogator Chaplain w/ Plasma Pistol
Hammernators, Assault Cannon
Hammernators, Assault Cannon
Hammernators, Assault Cannon

1000 Points. With a good DS move you should rub him out fairly easily.

Farseer
8 Wraithguard w/ Warlock
2x 5 DA
Wraithlord w/ TL Brightlance
Wraithlord w/ TL Brightlance
Wraithlord w/ TL Starcannon

If he just wants to play to the death, this army should prove really hard to kill and be really killy. You can Lance his wagons to death, Starcannon and Wraithcannon the meganobs and then easily kill the rest

Okay, just a comment. If he doesn't like playing objective games, I would suggest he play something other than 40k.
The obvious equalizer between codexes is point cost and effectiveness but the other is the scenarios. I will apologize for unfamiliarity with 6th scenarios but thinking of 5th. I can build a downright nasty list if I know a NEVER have to worry about holding an objective.

That said the landraider spam list is boring but the way to beat his list.

1 chaos sorcerer 100 (I don't care if you give him a spell I just want cheap HQ otherwise a lord with power fist)

6 Pllague Marines: Champ w PF, 2 Flamers 188
7 Plague Marines: Champ w PF, 2 Flamers 211

1 Landraider: 250
1 Landraider: 250

Sit back shoot your TL lascannons at his wagons until you finally get through. Finally you walk up and kill his dreadnoughts.

Now you can switch the plague marines to melta guns but I am going to play the boring game... Sit and kill the wagons if he sits back. Sit and kill the dreadnoughts if they try to rush you.

The deathwing works better. Belial, 2 Landraiders and 2 Deathwing units with chainfists.

With the eldar at 1000 points, shake his hand and tell him it was a good game and walk out the door. With your troop requirements, you are going to get a lot of worthless against this army and not enough points to do anything to him.

Anything that can Deepstrike close enough to his Trukks to Melta in double dice range is going to kill his plan. If he loses both Trukks he's shot.

He might have gone 20-0 in 5th edition, but he's not going to have a record like that in 6th. It might do well in Kill Point missions, but he'll never hold up in Objective Missions, especially "Crusade" and "The Scouring".

Hmmm two Battlewagons, couple of Deff Dreads, some Meganobz and Lootas...

Well, you need to tackle the Lootas and Battlewagons first. If you immobilised, wreck and explode the Battlewagons then gravy, because the Meganobz are slow and purposeful and will take time reaching the fight. Then dakka the Lootas to death, once the Meganobz come in close blast them to bits too.

With Eldar use mass scatter lasers from War Walkers of Fire Prism large blasts on the Lootas. All you need to do is chip them down to low numbers, which will reduce effectiveness.

Then speed Fire Dragons towards Battlewagons or use Fire Prisms linked up or maybe drop in some Hawk Dudes and use haywire grenades to glance the crap out of the Batltewagon.

Also, I wonder how this Ork list would win objective games. Just take out the Meganob unit and job done.

Does he put the lootas in a waggon?

How about some Tau allies - I know it is a pain to have to buy and paint them but I think with eldar you could run rings around this ork force.

HQ in a crisis suit with plasmas to get through mega armour, sneak him up to help with the lootas and get in side shots on the waggons.

6 Fire warriors to wander over and take on the lootas in a shooting match (not alone but I think they will have done the damage before the lootas realise what is going on - that's dumb orks for ya). Try to position them to do this and so the battle waggons expose their rears when they are after the rest for the force.
Broadside Battle Suits (+ a few shield drones) to take down the Trukks. Long range, sit them on the flanks, out of the range of the lootas if possible, then either puch through the front AV or the sides if the waggons head elsewhere.

That leaves you close to 600 points of eldar to give a main target for the BWaggons to aim for and a force which focuses on knocking the lootas out to give the Broadsides chance on the waggons.
That sort of suggets a wave serpent with banshees or fire dragons in & decent anti tank weapons.
2 Small Units of jet bikes - go after lootas and the rear of the battle waggons
Farseer
Couple of hovering things with lances on them.

Deploy the eldar as close to the wagons as possible to get them to comit and not go after the broadsides and pull back your more mobile force, seperate and get the waggons to turn and shoot em up; do a casualty count at the end of each turn and prepare a smug grin for when you wipe the floor with him.

This guy is tailoring his game play to suit his needs.
This is called cheating in my area and players who do this are ignored.
Maybe you should tell him that you only play by the book.
So if he doesn't want to roll on random missions, then you'll find someone else to play.

eh, there is a certain satisfaction from playing to the death games every now and then. The big problem with them is that the game is (kinda) balanced around not knowing what the mission will be before the game and need to build a list which can do everything.

Of course, some armies do straight up killing better than others, and honestly his isn't very good at it. Dark Eldar will absolutely flatten him, as they can easily bring enough dark light weapons to seriously mess up his wagons and nobs, and enough splinter cannons to melt his lootas.

a Space Marine army with a big block of THSS termies are going to wreck his day, as those meganobs can eat instant death with no invulnerable save.

Tau Broadsides will also turn him to paste before he makes it accross the field, especially with some marker lights to strip away the wagon's KFF cover saves.

Honestly his entire army will crumble to ap1 or 2 anti tank spam, since that will cut apart his wagons, meganobs, and dreads.

What about a necron army, how would they destroy this list in a to the death game.

I have recently aquired some models and was thinking the more warriors with veil crypteks the better.

Also he puts he warboss with the lootas in a wagon to gain SaP rule.

Not many people do like to play him, as he always wins so much but I dont really care about win tallys I just the satifaction of beating him and showing others it can be done.

A tau army could do it.

Crisis suits with fusions & plasmas would negate his 2+ saves and burn through very very quickly.

So you have Dark Angels.

Well this is what I would run in 1k

Beliel: Weapons are up to you.

Terms x5: CML, Apoth, Banner
Terms x5: CML

Speeder: Typhoon, MM

Vinidcator: Dozer
Vindicator: Dozer

You use the Vinides to kill the BW's then the MANZ inside. If the lootas are also in a BW wait till it pops then drop TML's and CML's Frag on them and watch them die.

I expect turn 2 win.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also his shootas on the Manz are not big shootas. The are only Shootas str 4 so if he is saying they are str 5 he is cheating.

very simply defeat him with this

Captain shrike-195 points

terminator squad 3 chainfists-215 points

dreadnought-drop pod 140

2 tactical squads 180

land raider+ storm bolter and mulitmelta 270

infiltrate with shrike and terminators to the battlewagons, they have av 10 in close combat so will be easily killed
drop dreadnaught in and crush the deff dreads
hide tacticals in land raider and sit back and shoot anything that comes close
if it works you should have 1 less battlewagon and deff dread before its even begun, they will have problems stopping the dread with poor shots and initiative

Beat him with a hammer. So we pulls out his army set them all on a table, you just grab a toolbox pull out your trusty ole hammer and BAM BAM BAM smash them all you win right?

Or you could just spam ap 2 weapons and high str weapons with one or 2 cover ignoring blasts to wipe out lootas (dual template dred?)

AS Necrons, you could easily beat him with a double-destroyer lord list probably
D-lord 160 (SW/MSS/WS)
D-lord 160
x6 wraiths w/ whip coils 240
x6 wraiths w/ whip coils 240
x7 warriors 91
x8 warriors 91
995 pts

You'll win challenges, two deathstars can rend through the armor on the battlewagons, and the MANZ, invuln saves will mitigate power claws, and you'll be hitting first.

As DE:

Stand off and pummel with Dark Lances from nightshielded, flickerfielded ravagers or voidravens..

Frankly, anything that can blow up a battlewagon will also kill a heapm of its cargo. Lootas have beercan armour and the explosions are S 4 now, so will wound on a 4+. KFF is only a 5+ save these days, also.

Engage the BW from the sides (armour 12) or better yet the rear, Ideally do this with AP 1 guns like meltas. Drop podded melta squads are murder to this list.

The warboss and Meganobz have a TL SHOOTA not BIG shoota (unless he is Ghazzy) from mega armour, so you may want to check that.

The warboss is a beatstick in CC, but not that much of a badass to ranged fire if you have access to AP 2 or 1.

The Deffdread is kitted as anti-infantry, and has a low I. Assaulting in grenade-toting troops can take it down before it can swing, sometimes, or just shoot it. It is slow and low armour. Failing that engage it with soemthing well-armoured like an Ironclad dread.

Remember also that he can't disembark those Meganobz if he uses the deffrolla or moves over 6''.

Frankly, the key to dealing with this list is concentrated fire and flanking the BW's.

Get side or rear shots (not hard) and just pummel it. His Big mek/lootameks can't do any repairs until HIS shooting turn, and can't fix a dead wagon. Also be aaware that any repair roll of 1 gets a Shaken result. Amazing how few folk bring that up.. Also remember that the meks don't have deffguns (and make sure he does) and that Lootas fire D3 shots , not 3. I've seen this one before too.

Assuming that you can get the side shot (or ideally rear) and the KFF doesn't block it, the BW is is open-topped. +1 on the damage chart IIRC. Hit it with AP 1 and its +3 on the damage chart (whick greatly increases the chance for a kill. Deep strikers can really feth a BW over.

4 solid glances or pens kills a wagon. Not that hard to achieve in CC or at range. S8 can glance the front, S6 the sides, and bolterfire can kill a wagon from behind. I've lost BW's to bolt pistol fire ...

If you CC, the lootas can snap-shot you (which is ugly) but the Meganobz can't fire overwatch. If you can unshuck them from the BW thay are big expensive targets for you to shoot at.

Frankly i really can't see this list getting a 20-0 win record unless the guy wqas cheating or obscenely lucky.

He normally is pretty lucky and don't really like playing with terrain. He always plays on a small 2' x 4' board.

Any how I have beaten him and ended his winning streak. He was not a happy person but otherwise put on a brave face and shook my hand.

Thanks for all the comments and help I received.

Course he does, it means that he starts really close to you and can get charges off very early on in the game.

Well played though, even though the game was made for his army you still managed to beat him. Well done. What did you take in the end?

I would build one of two armies to have a fun chance at beating this army for the Eldar.
Because he doesn't play for objectives, there is no reason to take more then the two troops.

High speed army:
HQ
Jetseer w/guide, fortune, spirit stones, bike. 155

Troops
Jetbike squad (5) embolden lock. 160
Dire avengers (5) These go in the falcon 60

Elite

Fast attack
Vypers w/scatter laser, shuricannon 210
Warp spiders, exarch w/surprise assault double spinners 137

Heavy
falcon w/star cannon 140
Wraithlord w/bright lance 130

Plan would be, the wraithlord is bait. Takes pot shots at the loota wagon. Falcon is in reserve. Jet bikes and vypers fly really quick towards the ork backfield. Setting up to be able to shoot the battlewagons rear armor. Warp spiders when they come in strike behind the wagons or dread. When the falcon comes in, it eats MANZ.

Castle version
HQ
Avatar 155

Troops
Dire avengers (5) 60
Jet bikes (3) 66

Elite
Fire dragons (7) fire pike, crack shot, tank hunter exarch 156
Fire dragons (7) fire pike, crack shot, tank hunter exarch 156

Heavy
D-cannons (3) 150
Vibro cannon (3) 150
Fire prism 115

Castle up as far from his squad as possible. Proceed to shoot a lot. Every step closer he gets the firepower becomes stronger.

Yeah im calling B.S on your friends claim this Guard army would laugh at them as they charged across the field

HQ- Company command Squad - ( x2 Sniper rifles , Auto wound on a 4+ rend on 6's )


Troops - 492 pts


Vet Squad x2 Plasma guns ( Plasmas are Strength 7 AP 2 ) - chimera

Vet Squad x2 Plasma Guns - chimera

Vet Squad x2 Plasma guns - Chimera




Heavy Support

Manticore- 150 pts ( Strenght 10 AP 4 , )

Medusa 130 pts ( Strenght 10 AP 1 or 2 w/ Large Blast )

Leman russ Vanquisher - Multimelta sponsons , Foward lascannon ( main gun is 2 D6 on penetration rolls , Multimelta is 24 ' range , lascannon is strenght 9 )



Elites - x1 ten Man pysker Battle Squad -- ( Strength 9 Random AP large blast with a shitton of special rules )



Congrats i just made a list that would laugh at your friends at range

simple way of getting round this invite him round to yours and set up an seize ground mission with lots of terrain on a large board, show him that he bending the rules and should play fair or it makes the game boring

plus he may enjoy different battles and with terrain, search alternate missions in proposed rules and try them

if he refuses, just find somewhere else to play and wait till he gets bored and decides to play fair, because no matter how hard you try his army is in ideal conditions so will always win unless unlucky

Best way to beat this list:

Play someone else, failing that get him to play any other mission and watch him lose.

Anyone can make a list that is tailored to one mission, to make a list that can handle all of the missions, that is the mark of a good player and a piece of art in itself.

Yeah, if he is playing on small boards, and is playing to the death only, thats like tau playing on a 80 inch long board.

 Rampage wrote:
Well played though, even though the game was made for his army you still managed to beat him. Well done. What did you take in the end?

Well to start off with I had a bigger game board and sprinkled around some area terrain. Only about 4 individual pieces on a 4'x4'. He seemed happy with this but did try to point out that it was pointless, as he would a cover saves regardless because of the KFF. Also he said that he had no weapons that would get through my armour, so I did not benefit from terrain.

Despite him saying these things we played on and he only killed a single DW unit in the whole game.

My list was as follows (Not particularly a competitive list but its all I had access to at the time):

Belial - TH/SS

Dread - TL-AC

DW - x4 TH/SS, x1 AC + PF
DW - x4 TH/SS, x1 AC + PF
DW - x2 SB + CF, x2 SB + PF, x1 AC + PF (This is the squad that died, deepstruck to close to the Mega Nobs and got chopped to bits)

As others said a guy who says "I will only play A, B, C, D, and E requirements" is someone not worth playing against. Glad you thumped him, hopefully he will start playing some ACTUAL 40k games.