Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Does anybody have any experience with this painting service? They aren't the cheapest by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems that they are very professional/reliable. I'm wondering how good the quality is. To be honest, the pictures on their website are so low resolution that it's very hard to tell what their products look like. Also, a lot of their models look very... splotchy or pasty or chalky - but it's hard to tell because their pictures are very very low res.

http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_image.php?imgID=125903

They've got some videos on youtube, and some of the models they use in their videos look... not so impressive. The Ultramarines in this video are apparently for sale, but they look like they just went over them with a can of blue spray paint basically:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO9UACXR0RY&feature=relmfu

I kinda get the feeling that they pump out so many models that they might not really be paying attention to what they are doing. They have these different "levels" of painting, and I think that the standard level is level 3. For most of my models, I'd be getting them painted at a 3.

Can I get any opinions from people on this forum about BTP?

furbyballer wrote:
BTW, most of those models, the ultra marine models, were traded to BTP and they touched them up a little bit and then put them up for sale.

Thank you, this is very good info to know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

furbyballer wrote:
If you have the money and not the time they will do good work for you. Good not great.

Can you recommend any services around the same price range that you would consider great? heh heh. I'm looking for a painting service that I can get into a long term business relationship with and constantly have models being painted for years to come. I'm not looking for somebody who just started because they might not be in the business in a year. Also, I'm not looking for anybody who is doing this part-time and might not be able to paint for 9 months when life gets in the way.

Derr wrote:

What you're paying for with BlueTablePainting really is all about service. They respond quickly to any inquiries about assembling and painting your minis, and will even buy them for you. They've got fast turnaround time (I think the shortest?) due to multiple people working on your project at a time on well organized painting recipes picked out by you.

Yeah I can already tell that they are extremely professional and well run, which honestly is the biggest selling point for me.

Can anybody recommend any other alternatives that I might wanna consider? Also, I'd rather deal with somebody in America just due to shipping (which rules out a few amazing companies in the UK.

 Arrathon wrote:
let me offer this, READ their entire site. sure they can paint, and they do it quickly. But you do pay Alot. Thier low level grunts are not that good at all, and yes i have seen them, repainted them in person. I have a friend who paid them 1900$ to get his entire army done up and is in a mess as the painter left mid army, the next kid came in and nothing matches now (long story) Over all it is your money and do as you wish with it. I have my opinion of them but it is my own, Alot of their policies i do not like at all, but again that's me. Just my 2 cents is all.

Sigh. who else should I be considering?

And in terms of hiring a local... I just get the feeling I might end up finding somebody who is far less than professional, doing it in his spare time and taking a year and a half to finish a squad.

 CT GAMER wrote:

Derr wrote:
They're pretty good actually. I've used them a couple of times for level 3 work, and have 2 of their level 5s that I'm very happy with.

Pics please.

Yea, maybe you could link us to the a gallery on their site that has your pics of your minis.

The only problem is that the pics on their site are such low resolution....

 CT GAMER wrote:


One of the resons I have never used BTP is all their own pics and so forth are not good and everythign seems so elusive and hard to pinpoint as far as quality/prices/etc.


What I want to see are customer pics of actual BTP painted models with a description of what level they are and what was payed to have them painted.

Well to be fair, it is hard to pinpoint a price unless you can specify to them exactly what you want painted and how much you want to spend on customizations.

But yeah, the pictures on their site are not impressive. There are a ton of very low res pictures that are impossible to slog through. The pictures are all taken with a very very short depth of focus, so one model is sorta in focus and the others around it are just blurs. The model that is in focus can't really be studied because it's so low res and pixelated.

If anybody has any pictures of work that they received from BTP, please please please post them up here. Also, tell us what "level" they were painted at.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arrathon wrote:

http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=5510 Found my bud's army on their gallery (hope he doesn't get pissed at me for posting this lol)

See what I mean about blurry pics where nearly everything is out of focus? I can't help but feel like they are hiding something....



I can almost tell that some of the models, esp the ones with the yellow helmets, were painted by somebody else. It kinda blows me away that they had such a hard time matching their own paint job.

Oh btw, I checked out GMM studios Their stuff is stunning. Is it much more expensive than BTP?

 Arrathon wrote:
. Also one more commission painter whom is well known that does insane work is Nuclerasuar here on dakka (i might have his name spelt wrong) he is a god with OSL painting.

holy crap......

nuclealosaur's facebook............

It sucks that he's overseas, but if he has a good rep on dakka then a lot of my qualms are alleviated. Honestly, there are no pictures on BTP that look as good as his. None.


This:Blue Table Salamander Land Raider



Or This: Nuclealosaur DA Land Raider

Nuclealosaur DA Rhino



Wow, Nuclealosaur and GMM are in a different league than BTP honestly:

GMM Salamander Rhino

 Zygrot24 wrote:
They did a birthday baneblade for me. Magnetized all weapons and a fantastic Steel Legion scheme on the tank and threw in the commander assembled and painted. They pride themselves on communication but I think it could have been a little better. They didn't contact me when they received the tank (I shipped), they didn't really contact me to tell me it was done, just sent an invoice. But I am satisfied and will consider them in the future for something that might need to be done.

There ya go:

http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=5471

That tank looks really great. What level was that?

 Zygrot24 wrote:

I honestly don't remember. I believe it was level 4. I know it wasn't 3.

Would you be willing to share how much you spent? Was it just the forgeworld tank and the commander?

 Meade wrote:
@ bowloflostcells: If you're going to compare those three vehicles, we need a price tag for how much each would cost.... s&h included...

Nuke arts has great painting, but would be more of a boutique thing probably. That salamanders land raider, has highlights on the paint dents... clearly a lot of fiddly time was spent on it. The GMM paintjobs, for what I assume is intermediate level, is pretty simple airbrushing + sponge and not on par with Nuke arts, but what is the cost?

Yeah I would love to compare the cost!

I don't know how much S&H is, but labor Nuke arts labor costs is actually much much much cheaper than BTP.

The only thing I'm saying is that I don't see anything in BTP galleries that even compare to the pictures from GMM and Nuke.

I'm not trying to bash BTP here, I'm legitimately trying to find the best place to send my minis.

 Meade wrote:
They have so much stuff up, it's hard to find, but I think this army is better than GMM's tank posted there and at least the lower level Nuke Arts stuff. Nuke Arts... also that guy really knows how to photograph a miniature which seems to be something BTP has yet to master.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZhoYk9L6uE

These are not bad but they are not characteristic of 95% of the stuff they have up in their gallery.

It seems the words "hit or miss" really describe BTP's work. You're playing the lottery. You spend over a $1000 on the models, the assembly and the painting, and you pray that they might come back looking like the 5% that they end up making videos with. Most of the time your models get sent through their assembly line and come out looking mediocre at best. At worst you're gonna have to fight them for a refund.

I've pretty much decided against blue table painting, but has anybody written a review on their work? If there are any good reviews up it might help me change my mind.

Master Sheriff wrote:

Examples : Nukearts( dealt with him), redmodelling( dealt with him as well), golem painting studio, worthy painting, battleworthy arts, battle brush studios, next level studio, GMM studios, winterdyne commissions, Ifalna's painting studio and so many others I'm forgetting.

This is a great list! Thanks for the suggestions. I'm looking through their webpages right now and their galleries are really nice!

I know that there is no reason for you to know this, but do you happen to know if any of these are based in the United States or Canada (besides GMM, I know hey are Indiana)?

furbyballer wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsMAlCM7dUo

BTP customer who did an in depth review of his army

Also, the problem with almost all of the companies listed above that offer commission services are over seas for US customers and that is a real turn off because shipping our miniatures over seas is a rather large extra expense.

This youtube video is actually extremely impressive. BTP needs to hire a professional photographer immediately, or invest in a better camera.

There's still a chance that I might end up sending my minis to BTP. Does anybody have any suggestions for how I can ensure my greatest chance of getting a good paint job, and not ending up with one of the horror stories I've been hearing about?

Derr wrote:

What about their professionalism is lacking? How fast could you respond to inquiries?

I don't think BTP lacks anything in the way of professionalism. These guys are top notch in terms of responding to you, organizing your order and having everything shipped back to you in a timely manner. The problem is that you are paying for professionalism and now quality painted models. Their painting is really hit or miss, and even when it hits, its hard to justify the amount that they charge. You can see where their money is going. They've got an enormous office space with tons of employees. Their fees go to their overhead. But it is their overhead which allows them to be so professional.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:


For the morbidly curious here is the primary army I sent to BTP back in 2005.
http://bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=219

This gallery also contains some of the later additions to the army.
http://bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=87

I clicked on the link and all I saw were gigantic pixels.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

For another US-based service that I absolutely adore check out Garden Ninja Studios. www.gardenninja.com

I have been using that service for over three years now and have had nothing but success. Plus, some of the projects that Garden Ninja has painted for me have spanned multiple years with the consistency of the paint work staying so close that it is difficult, or at times impossible, for me to distinguish when one model was painted over another.

These are some nice paint jobs!

KrMaH wrote:
I am horribly worried that none has mentioned BuyPainted...
His work is absolutely stunning, a bit pricey though...
But the attention to details, his highlighting and his work with bases and mold lines is amazing!
Go check out his youtube page!

I went on buypainted's webpage (buypainted.com) and couldn't figure out what he was selling. His site is set up blog style, so I don't know which one are for sale, which ones are sold, which ones are just tutorials etc etc. I spent a few minutes on his site and gave up. But yeah, nice paint jobs.

Renfro wrote:

You guys might be interested in this thread:
www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2012/10/22/65829/

What the heck is this? Sorry, this just came to my attention. I watched this video called "Huge Discourse on BTP's Kickstarter", 26 min of patting himself on the back. Ok up to this point I was just skeptical about BTP but after seeing that I'm really not liking these guys.

He's making it seem like he invented the idea of custom painted armies. He's making it seem like he's the only one who has done prepainted armies before (even though he admits that they are all over ebay.)

From everything I've seen, BTP's work is sub-par at best. It's nearly never worth what they charge. They are already a huge impersonal, indifferent to quality and customer experience assembly line, and they are raising more money to create an even larger indifferent/impersonal assembly line. He even described it as such saying that customer's would have a ticket and watch these armies get cranked out.

BTP is great at promoting themselves. They are turning into the Walmart and McDonalds of commission painting. Crap quality, but their videos seem to be everywhere and you can't get away from them. It is my fear that, just as Walmart has put out of business many mom and pop shops, BTP is putting out of business many high quality commission painters. To me this is extremely disturbing.

From the time that I was thinking of using BTP until now, I had kept and open mind and given them the benefit of the doubt. After watching that video, I can clearly say that I have never seen somebody more full of himself than this man.

There are some very serious criminal charges in these comments, including tax fraud:

"... we were advised to misrepresent our work status to the IRS and refused. That and honest criticism got us all fired. “. surely that is illegal isn’t it ?"

This definitely is not proof that any sort of tax fraud actually happened. But with such serious charges, I hope that these claims are investigated thoroughly.

It also seems that Shawn has been censoring criticism in his youtube comments, which appears to be the main reason that I never see negative comments on his youtube videos. There's nothing but adoring fans there:

bluetablepaintingshawn wrote:
October 29, 2012 at 11:37 am

I try and keep things positive on my Youtube channel. I tend it carefully like a garden. If it seems to me that someone wants to just start up a firestorm I make that go away.

 Igenstilch wrote:
I love my job, its a dream job to me. I quit a full time job with benefits to work full time for Shawn. I see him every day, and yea, he is not your average man, Though honestly, it takes a different kind of person to be a hobbyist, an artist, and a business man. I'm glad he established Blue Table Painting, and has given me an opportunity to work with the games I love for a living.

 Igenstilch wrote:


2nd PS: I personally was not a fan of the kickstarter, I enjoy doing made to order armies. But Shawn thinks there's a market for it. Though I am tempted to put my own money in for a fully painted Infinity army. Either way, I will stay with BTP and Shawn till life takes me elsewhere.

Wow, people were saying that BTP is like a cult... this is definitely not helping you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Middle Pillar Path Jay wrote:

We were contacted by the IRS and by Mr. Gately's attorney for information regarding our claims.

I am sorry that you and your wife had to go through that. You are saying that the IRS investigated these claims. What came out of this investigation?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Middle Pillar Path Jay wrote:


48 hours after that meeting, we had another meeting, where we were all fired.

Shawn wrote in a comment something that is a bit contradictory. He says he didn't fire any of you, and that you guys went on to start your own company. Which is the truth?:

Rob does have one detail incorrect: I didn’t fire my then-workers. Most of them started up their own painting company and went out on their own. Again, I wished them well then and still do so. I have gone forward with a heart free of ill-will.

MajorSoB wrote:
The final word on the subject is this....

Blue Table Painting does good work for a fair price.

MajorSoB wrote:


Seriously, they offer a decent service and you get what you pay for.

No, you obviously miss the point of this thread. Originally the purpose of this thread was to determine whether or not Blue Table Painting was worth their price. The general consensus after considering many people's testimony on BTP's quality and comparing their results to other commission painters out there, is that they are not worth the price. You do not get what you pay for.

The final word is that there are many painters much better than BTP, may of them are also considerably cheaper. Also due to the questionable ethical practices of BTP, I will refrain from using their services.

I hope that the current controversy surrounding BTP will push people to start looking at the many other quality commission painters who are working honestly and ethically.

Please don't hop onto a thread that you haven't read and say that you have the final word. Thanks.

HarlequinZero wrote:
I was reading the the thread over on TGN and the comments have been turned off so I decided to hop over here.

If you read BTP's comments it seems all of their painters are counted as "Independent Contractors" to the IRS. So I followed another link someone posted in the TGN mega thread about the difference between "Employees" and "Indpendent Contractors." It says that an Independent Contractor is expected to use all his/her own personal tools in the completion of a job. However, in TrojanArtPainting's thread he says one of the painters took him over to the communal tool area provided by BTP. (I guess this means paint and brushes.) But, if the BTP painters are getting their paints and brushes from BTP then they can't be considered independent contractors. They would have to buy all the paints and brushes needed for each project themselves. Am I reading that right?

BTP had their employees claim themselves to be contractors for the purpose of defrauding the IRS and the United States Government.

It is already clear that they were in fact employees.

It is already clear that Shawn of BTP had some of his employees engage in activity to appear as if they were contractors, such as setting up phony websites offering services.

It is also clear that Shawn was investigated by the IRS and was forced to settle with them because they found BTP in violation. Although he has not admitted this to the public, paying the IRS is in fact an admission of guilt.

Instead of fighting it I just conceded and paid the interest and penalties. Basically those that filed the complaint got what they wanted. Legally, the matter is settled. “Compliance” I think they called it. I even made a few friends at the IRS.

The matter is now settled w.r.t. the IRS, but as far as I am concerned, this truly reflects poorly on the character of Shawn and the nature of his business. Forcing your employees to masquerade as contractors is not an honest thing to do. Shawn did not "accidentally" deviate from compliance of the tax code. He knowingly broke the tax code through the use of deception, and coerced others into assisting him, in order to save a buck. I refuse to support any business that engages in unethical activities such as defrauding the government.

It is my fear that such dishonest practices will continue and will be encouraged by the injection of cash that BTP will be getting through their new Kickstarter.

catachan1brainleaf wrote:


An Independent Contractor:

Operates under a business name
Has his/her own employees
Maintains a separate business checking account
Advertises his/her business' services
Invoices for work completed
Has more than one client
Has own tools and sets own hours
Keeps business records

An Employee:

Performs duties dictated or controlled by others
Is given training for work to be done
Works for only one employer

From the definitions you provided above, I am more convinced than ever that these people were employees rather than contractors. Even the IRS agreed.

Did they have more than one client? No. They were required to sign a non-competition agreement that even extended beyond their employment at BTP.

Do they advertise their work? No. Can anybody show me an advertisement for independent work by a single painter currently working at BTP?

Personally I think we need to put pressure on the major news outlets of 40k, such as 40k Radio, the 11th Company, Bols, Faiet 212 etc. Some of these news sources have publicized BTP in the past.

I know that 40k Radio does Duelcon, and BTP was at Duelcon this year. If they are publicizing BTP, I think they are obligated to notify the listening public that there are ethical questions surrounding BTP - and that there are other choices for commission work.

Something has been bothering me about BTP's process for some time, and I hope that one of you former employees can shine some light on this apparent paradox.

BTP has a policy of keeping he extra bits and sprues after they assemble your model. With more modern GW kits, this can sometimes be up to 25% of the components on the sprues. They claim that this goes into a communal pot to be used on conversions for other clients. In the end, everybody benefits.

The troubling thing is, they also ask you to set aside a certain amount of money as a "conversion budget" from which they can work from. In fact, they recommend $50-$150. According to their site, "This covers the cost of the parts used and conversion work itself." It doesn't seem that the parts are coming from this communal part supply.

Where do the leftover bits go? As with all things Shawn and BTP, there seems to be some amount of dishonesty going on here.

BTP Service Guide - Conversions Budget

Dentry wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

Renfro wrote:
Many of the bits are thrown out rather than paying somebody to clip them out and organize them.

You're kidding me right? Then why the feth don't they just send the bits to the client?

Exactly. However, it can be inferred that since BTP is unwilling to pay someone to manage bits, then that includes not having someone to keep track of which kits belong to which customers.

From what I've read, I would assume that everything going into the shop (save prebuilt or converted items) is added to their inventory and use that as one big resource pool for all projects.

If its going into a resource pool, then why are customers paying $150 for their conversion budget and giving up their extra bits if BTP has the bits already (which they got for free.) Something smells fishy here.

On a side note, I heard that for the top support level on their kickstarter, you also get life advice from Shawn. Wow I would love to hear some of that advice.

**Important: In order to spread the word, I started a thread on MiniWarGaming forum. Please go there and contribute:

MiniWarGaming Thread on BTW

So I posted a thread on the MiniWarGaming forum hoping to spread some awareness of the issues surrounding BTP. They immediately locked it saying:

"Well I'm going to lock this thread as apparently most of what is being said is hearsay or plain false.

Also, there is nothing wrong with them using KickStarter the way they are. That is what it is there for."

The thread is here.

MiniWarGaming is obviously protecting BTP with the immediate assumption that everything said here is false - Even though Shawn has previously admitted to the tax fraud.

I just sent support@MiniWarGaming.com this email:

Yesterday I started a thread on your forum discussing ethical concerns that myself and others have had with some of Blue Table Painting's practices.

These claims involve past tax fraud by this organization, which Shawn has admitted to being true. He has admitted on Tabletop Gaming News that these allegations are indeed true (www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2012/10/22/65829/).

"Basically those that filed the complaint got what they wanted. Legally, the matter is settled. “Compliance” I think they called it. I even made a few friends at the IRS. This was early 2008."

Other concerns deal with how Shawn has treated his employees. This has been verified by past employees of BTP. You can read this discussion here: (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/477183.page)

The thread that I started on your forums to discuss these concerns was immediately locked by the Admin with the explanation "apparently most of what is being said is hearsay or plain false". The only problem is that the claims have been verified by Shawn. Now I am left wondering why your organization would suppress discussion about legitimate ethical issues without investigating these claims further.

I am concerned that your organization is dismissing very serious ethical concerns out of hand simply due to your business relationship with BTP, rather than investigating these concerns.

In the past I have admired the videos that you have produced on YouTube. Right now I would like to know precisely where MiniWarGaming stands with regards to Blue Table Painting and allegations of unethical practices.

-Thank you

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Don't hold your breath, but I'll post the reply that I get from MiniWarGaming (if I ever get a reply) as soon as I get it.

I want to reiterate what Alpharius said as well. Let's keep the discussion here polite and civil.

Remember, for those who are looking for a miniatures painting service, like I was, this is currently the only place where information can be found about BTP so that they can make an informed decision about whether or not to do business with an organization of questionable ethical nature.

Shawn deletes any negative comments on his youtube channel. Both the Tabletop Gaming News threads and the MiniWarGaming Forum threads are now locked. This is the only place you can find out the truth about BTP. If this tread turns into a flame war with people attacking each other, then this thread will be gone as well.

 Zygrot24 wrote:
You don't have to like or even agree with what has been done. I don't, and I've worked for people like that myself..

.. I agree that whatever he's alleged to have done is pretty dishonest, and I don't enjoy his insane libertarian streak...

For those of us who are looking for a miniatures painting service, just as I was, I think it is important to have all the facts on the table so that you can make an informed decision about who to do business with. If a company has a very questionable moral track record, this is important information to me. It might not be to you, but it is to me. Shawn actively suppresses any criticism of his company, which is why we are working to make sure that the facts are out there for anybody to see.

If these facts don't affect your selection of commission painters, then don't take them into account when making your selection. But allow us to spread this awareness for those who want to take ethics into account when choosing a painting service.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So here's the response that I got from Matthew Glanfield

Basically what it comes down to is that I don't believe half of what is being said.

All Shawn admitted to was making mistakes on his taxes due to ignorance, which I think most companies have done (heck, I've done it, which cost me a lot of money a few years ago).

Also, reading the negative comments doesn't make me think anything of his policies. I met Shawn personally, and I met a lot of his employees. They are very happy to work for him.

So say what you want, but I don't want to have our forum used to talk badly about him. You can keep those discussions in other areas of the Internet.

Matthew

It is unfortunate that he's discounting everything that people here have said, especially former employees.

It is totally obvious that Shawn manipulated and coerced his employees into masquerading as contractors just to defraud the government. However Matthew Glanfield has chosen to publicly stand by Shawn's lies for the sake of preserving a business relationship.

This is truly unfortunate.

 Zygrot24 wrote:
And it certainly doesn't help matters to harass MWG about it. Even if you feel their response to you was disingenuous, what is it you expect MWG to do about it? Deleting the forum post is reasonably protecting themselves from the kind of vitriol in this thread, even with the feeble rationalization.

Let me say that I was a fan of MWG. I love their videos and the batreps. I love their hosts! I never harassed MWG, nor did I ever mean to harrass them. It was my genuine hope that they were unaware of the ethical problems that BTP had. I was hoping that by shining light on these concerns, they would decide to distance themselves from BTP.

Not only are they aware of what Shawn has done, they are publicly standing by him despite these truths. This is disappointing to me.

Xanrn wrote:

its not full of Pissed Off Customers either and its been proven people with complain before they complement.

You do know that Shawn has admitted that he deletes posts on youtube with criticism right? Apparently he also gets his friends to block threads that don't praise him, like Matthew Glanfield on www.miniwargaming.com/ They are all part of his campaign to suppress the truth.

Unfortunately, Dakka Dakka is the only place that allows free speech.

well, one of the concerns I have had about their ks is the question of what portion of the money will be going to fulfilling their past obligations. They have already made mention that they've had a very difficult time keeping the lights on and keeping people payed. In the past half year people have been complaining that they have put in an order for models and waited a month without the models being purchased. If they are having a cash flow problem with their current operations, there would be a very large temptation to divert funds from the ks to fund projects that they have already committed to, but didn't previously have the cash to fulfill.

I also wondered how they would be selecting the lists that they plan to pre-build. If you think about every codex and every possible permutation of units in every codex, they would need to keep an inordinate amount of inventory on hand in order to quickly fulfill any order - or else it just turns into a custom job as they are quickly painting armies that people place orders for (isn't this already what they are doing?). They mentioned that they would be building the competitive lists that you see at tournaments like nova or adeptacon, but is that all? If you have actually looked at the ultra-competitive lists from those tournaments, you might notice that they are not very fun to play. There's a lot of spam as everything has been minmaxed. I think that the number of people who will want tony kopac's razorspam list might be somewhat limited. Even so, how are they predicting the distribution of demand for any of these ultra-competitive lists? They haven't shown any ability or methodology for this forecasting. What scares me even more is if this does take off. Imagine going into your store and seeing that everybody is fielding these ultra-competitive lists. It might be time to play a different game.

What about fluff lists? Some of the most fun armies to play are the ones that aren't truly effective but are a blast. Now we really come down to the problem of a huge array of stocking options that BTP would need to figure out. Are they going to have a SoB army on hand just in case somebody wanted one? What about a grot army or templars or footdar? Build them all? build some? which ones? how are they doing this selection? If you're going to invest a hundred in this hairbrain idea, you better know beforehand. As somebody who spends quite a bit of his work week in the investing world, this would be my advice.

My other concern is about the quality of the painting for these pre-built armies. BTP has in the past demonstrated a lack of consistency in their painting. Most armies are painted at a 3/5 level, with only a few select special characters receiving the '5' treatment. After looking at the photographs on their website (and I have spent a lot of time looking at them) I have to conclude that the 5's are no better than the lowest tabletop standard of many other commission painters. Often times the 3's are not passable, sometimes they are appalling. And these are models painted for somebody who has already paid their money. These are being done with the knowledge in mind that the customer may return them due to dissatisfaction with the paint job. Think of it as painting with somebody watching over your shoulder. If employees are cranking out a massive numbers of armies at a 3/5 paint job with no customer in mind, I'm sure that the results would be even worse. After all, if you're painting 30 baal predators, what difference does it make if one or two of them have runny paint? But knowing the way my dice roll, I'm sure I'd get one of those runny paint predators if I were to order one.

Finally, I'm worried what the success of their ks would do to the flgs. BTP has already become extremely dominant in the custom painting market, stealing business from many more qualified painters. If BTP is able to steal a large market share of the model sales market, I'm worried this will spell doom for many flgs that provide a place for us to play our game.

In short, there are a lot of problems with their ks, and I have a hard time recommending dropping a cent into it. Unless, of course, you really just want the life-coaching of shawn.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok so I just watched one of BTP's new videos where they discuss the issues of tiny blurry images on their website and a few few other scattered issues. This is a load of crap. Shawn would be better as a used car salesman, or selling amway or something.

He makes some elaborate excuse for the blurry images saying that he's trying to represent the size on my computer screen. How does he know how large my computer screen is? Also, there's a big between low resolution pictures and small size. You can take a picture that doesn't encompass a lot of area by moving the camera closer. You don't have to take a picture of the whole table and the whole office, and then crop out 10 pixels across of models. Yeah I'm exaggerating, but his bs explanation does not make any effort towards explaining why the pictures are so blurry. I'm still convinced that the blurriness is for the purpose of hiding how badly the miniatures are painted.

Also, he goes on about how solo painters are suffering. Yes Shawn, they are suffering because you are stealing their business. If you listen to 40k radio or you go on MWG, Shawn has thought to endorse these people so that you will hear nothing but good things about him. Shawn is good at marketing himself, he's not good at getting models painted well, and apparently he's not very good at operating a business.

The real problem is that most of the commission painters that you see on the internet, the ones that Shawn calls "solo-painters" won't sell you anything that looks like Shawn's lvl 7 or below. But they charge you for the price of Shawn's level 3s. For many commission painters that I have talked to, there is a level of pride in their art - but you aren't paying a premium. This isn't the same thing as a McDonald's/Masa (if you know NYC restaurants) analogy. For both the solo-painter and BTP work, you're still paying the Masa price. But with BTP you're getting a McDonald's hamburger. But with the solo-painter, you're getting world-class omakase.