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Hello dakka, i'm curious to know if it is tournament legal to base my Crypetks ( which will all be conversion/kit bashes to differentiate between the individual Harbringers) on the Terminator basses. They come with the smaller base but imho don't fit very well and i plan on using green stuff to pimp my basses for IC and Ch models to show their importance...and to look cooler of course. My only concern before i undertake this project is that i STILL want to play them in serious games such as tourneys, so I want to build them on par will the Rules. Regardless of the base i use, I will still pimp out the base with green stuff, it just changes the amount of space i have to work with overall. All in all i'm not too worried about it and just want to follow the rules. I'm not intending them to be some kind of showcase model, just my opinion on using a slightly bigger base to fit a model that overlaps in several areas making base to base contact. So far from my own personal looking into it and the Rulebook not really giving an answer to my question, I came to you guys for help, maybe you've seen or heard something I haven't, who knows. Any help is appreciated dakka!

By the rules, they should be on 25mm bases. Whether or not they're tournament legal is not something we can answer. You'll need to talk to the tournament organizer for that answer.

Generally speaking it's up to the TO, but specially-converted cool character models on a 40mm vs. a 25mm are usually not a problem. As long as there's no game advantage you gain from it, you should be fine.

I can't think of any specific circumstance where a larger base would give you an advantage, making it a easier sell when getting opponents to agree to the base difference.

pie zuri wrote:I can't think of any specific circumstance where a larger base would give you an advantage...

One advantage is you won't have as many models under blast and large blast markers.

 Ghaz wrote:

pie zuri wrote:I can't think of any specific circumstance where a larger base would give you an advantage...

One advantage is you won't have as many models under blast and large blast markers.

True, though just keeping your guys spread out already mitigates blast effectiveness. Not saying you couldn't find a way to get a advantage with a larger base, it would just be outweighed by disadvantages.

Another is that you can get a larger area of effect using things like sanguinary priests, it's not much but there are people out there that would do it.

The fleshtearer chapter master can hit everyone in b2b contact automatically instead of his normal attacks, that could be worth a 40mm base rather than a 25.

There are some upsides and downsides to using a larger/smaller base. As long as you are willing to treat the base as the proper size when requested (such as a tournament) then there won't be a problem. In a friendly game, there usually won't be an issue.

I don't believe any advantages will arise from using a 40mm base and if its cool it will be that much easier to sell.

e; n/m my question was answered while i was typing my post

It's a mild advantage (larger bases are easier to spread out and still remain in 2-inch coherancy for the purposes of template, blast, and large blast weapons) so you'll want to talk to your tournament organiser to see if they'll allow it.

In a friendly game i'd personally have no problems with letting my opponent do just that, but again you'll want to chat with your other player(s) to verify if they are cool with the idea.

Large bases also give a bit of a movement advantage, as well as a larger frontage for assaults. I experimented with this when I still had old terminators on the old bases.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Large bases also give a bit of a movement advantage

How? If you measure from the front to the front, you're still only getting 6".
If anything, larger bases are a movement disadvantage because you can't fit through small spaces.

rigeld2 wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Large bases also give a bit of a movement advantage

How? If you measure from the front to the front, you're still only getting 6".
If anything, larger bases are a movement disadvantage because you can't fit through small spaces.

It's a slight advantage when the "front" of the base switches up, such as when the model regroups and consolidates in the exact opposite direction of it's fallback move.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To the OP, I say go for it. The rule of cool trumps the rule of donkey-caves. I plan on mounting my C'Tan on a 60mm base after I'm done with the conversion. Granted I DON'T plan on playing in any tournaments again, ever.

Adding to the movement advantage...
Lateral movement gains you some small distances as well.
Plus unit coherency is affected by having a larger base. If you string out a unit you can cover more area while maintaining 3" distance to an objective.

Any movement benifit is going to be miniscule, especially when you consider the increased vulnerability to blasts and assaults(Crypteks arn't going to want to be in the assault)

One thing I've seen done is people make a large scenic base, but the large base actually contains a normal sized base so the model can be removed and be on its normal base. The small base effectivly has a hole in the large one's scenery.

One of the a cryptek special characters already has the larger base, so I don't think it would unreasonable to argue that other Crypteks wouldn't also be mounted on a similar base. I f you used a stock Cryptek and put it on the larger base, that is modeling for advantage but, if your model is made in a way that it needs a larger base just to fit, I don't see any TO or player having a problem with it. And even if it were a problem I believe the rules suggest that if it comes up in a game for LOS purposes to replace the model momentarily with the correct size and the put the larger one back. Modeling for advantage is a rule put there to,stop people from doing unreasonable things like making 48" gun barrels for 12" range weapons, not nitpicking conversions.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
One of the a cryptek special characters already has the larger base, so I don't think it would unreasonable to argue that other Crypteks wouldn't also be mounted on a similar base. I f you used a stock Cryptek and put it on the larger base, that is modeling for advantage but, if your model is made in a way that it needs a larger base just to fit, I don't see any TO or player having a problem with it. And even if it were a problem I believe the rules suggest that if it comes up in a game for LOS purposes to replace the model momentarily with the correct size and the put the larger one back. Modeling for advantage is a rule put there to,stop people from doing unreasonable things like making 48" gun barrels for 12" range weapons, not nitpicking conversions.

Not sure which one you're talking about, but I'm sure it's an HQ choice that is also an IC. Not really the same situation.

*Edit* You're talking about Illuminor Szeras, and he's supplied with the base and not on a standard body.

That would be like saying "Well this chapter master is on a 40mm base so I should be able to allow all my guys on them. I mean, he's just a special character marine after all."

Szeras represtents a special Harbinger of Destruction and no regular model for the Harbinger of Destruction exists so players are perfectly justified in using Szeras to represent that type of Harbinger. Given that we can only assume a non special harbinger would be mounted on a 25mm base does not supersede what we know about the existing special version and in fact you could argue that it would be modeling for advantage to not put those Crypteks on 35mm bases.

idk if people read my post...im only wondering about Crypteks specifically, which looking at pros and cons, a larger base would be more detrimental, but i want them to be more ascetically pleasing to my eyes....and as stated none of them will be stock crypteks, they will almost be completely custom built from the mass amount of extra parts i have and little conversions to make the special weapons. As for spreading them out, i play them in a solo cryptek with other models with smaller bases units (cryptek + deathmark units for ex). and to the guy who posted that "according to the rules" care to give me a page number reference these rules stating your point? all i see is at the back of the book were all they say is not to go overboard like putting a space marine on a GK Dreadknight base....as for what i will probably end up doing is magnetizing the model for 2 bases, one for uptight people, and one for people that dont care or plan on deepstriking in my face and having an easier time of assaulting...and movement, its pretty much the same going forward, only really changing when they regroup, but in my experience, if im running away...its from assault and with the people i play...its a miracle from heaven if i survive the initiative roll off....

Regardless it's important to remember models come with a specific base for a reason.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Szeras represtents a special Harbinger of Destruction and no regular model for the Harbinger of Destruction exists so players are perfectly justified in using Szeras to represent that type of Harbinger. Given that we can only assume a non special harbinger would be mounted on a 25mm base does not supersede what we know about the existing special version and in fact you could argue that it would be modeling for advantage to not put those Crypteks on 35mm bases.

40mm bases.

But really, no, even though he represents a special harbinger he is still technically "not" a harbinger of destruction. And you really couldn't, at this point in time, make that argument since you're supposed to use the base the model is supplied with. Yes, there are some exceptions and generally the "rule of cool" will keep players from getting DQ'd in tournaments or whatever. And personally, I wouldn't care in a friendly game. But by the book, it's not allowed. Again though, there's always wiggle room for some things. As long as you don't try to put 20 man warrior squads on 40mm bases I'm sure you'll be fine.

Honestly I'd think there would be more issues with putting lords on larger bases than crypteks, mainly because of MSS. I think you'd start hearing people cry foul then, most likely.

As Crypteks come with 25mm bases they should be on 25mm bases, conversion/kitbash or not.

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with." BGB p. 3.

 GiantKiller wrote:
As Crypteks come with 25mm bases they should be on 25mm bases, conversion/kitbash or not.

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with." BGB p. 3.

You should also point out the rest of that - "Sometimes, a player may have models in his collection on unusually modeled bases. Some models aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases you should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."

The larger base may also create unfair movement restrictions on your opponent. For example denying escape routes because your models now take up more space than they were intended to.

You should also point out the rest of that - "Sometimes, a player may have models in his collection on unusually modeled bases. Some models aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases you should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."
-Kevin949

Those are exceptions that don't really apply here.

This isn't some random rogue trader era pewter he found at a flea market, a space hulk game piece, or a golden daemon showpiece. And this certainly isn't a type of model supplied without a base. And if you feel it applies because he's planning to add an "unusually modeled base" himself then I'd argue the appropriate size for that base would still be 25mm, because "models of a similar type" that the rule instructs us to use as guidance would be other non-special-character crypteks, which have... you guessed it... 25mm bases.

The Cryptek HQs model is on a termie base? well that's ass backwards....hes in all appearances considered a cryptek, albeit a named one with extra rules....so why cant a cryptek be based similarly? To my knowledge, thats a unique occurrence to Necrons, unless a someone knows of another instance. For space marines, power armor in on the smaller base, while termie armor goes on the larger base, regardless of the models IC status or not...idk about alien races other than necrons and eldar, which have none.

The SM Captain in TDA comes with a 25mm base, at least it did 5 years ago when I bought mine.

The reason Szeras is on a 40mm base is he wouldn't fit on a smaller one. He's modified his lower torso and legs into a 4-legged spider-esque platform rather than the typical bipedal aspect common to your normal cryptek.

And people are correct, the model is not a Cryptek and should not be used as precident for such.

 Neorealist wrote:
The reason Szeras is on a 40mm base is he wouldn't fit on a smaller one. He's modified his lower torso and legs into a 4-legged spider-esque platform rather than the typical bipedal aspect common to your normal cryptek.

And people are correct, the model is not a Cryptek and should not be used as precident for such.

And the regular Cryptek is not a Harbinger of destruction, so if I model any of the Harbingers, and GW doesn't actually make a model for any of them, I am free to place it on an appropriate base, using the next most similarly equipped unit in the entire game, a terminator base would not be inappropriate.