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So you are of the opinion that an unique HQ model is a closer fit to a harbringer of destruction than a regular cryptek is? Interesting.

 Neorealist wrote:
So you are of the opinion that an unique HQ model is a closer fit to a harbringer of destruction than a regular cryptek is? Interesting.

Both are equipped with an Eldritch lance and a gaze of flame, the regular Cryptek has neither of these. Nothing in Szeras' profile indicates that he gave himself 4 legs because he uniquely decided to do it for himself. His fluff only states that he augments fellow Necron units. He has no improved ability to move through than that of the other Harbingers, and no indication that any other Harbingers of Destruction would be equipped any differently.

 GiantKiller wrote:

You should also point out the rest of that - "Sometimes, a player may have models in his collection on unusually modeled bases. Some models aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases you should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."
-Kevin949

Those are exceptions that don't really apply here.

This isn't some random rogue trader era pewter he found at a flea market, a space hulk game piece, or a golden daemon showpiece. And this certainly isn't a type of model supplied without a base. And if you feel it applies because he's planning to add an "unusually modeled base" himself then I'd argue the appropriate size for that base would still be 25mm, because "models of a similar type" that the rule instructs us to use as guidance would be other non-special-character crypteks, which have... you guessed it... 25mm bases.

You realize that was the point I was trying to make with quoting that rule, right? I simply added it to the previous posters comment because taking that one line out of context from the rest of the rule could still lead people to think you didn't have to model them on the base supplied, which isn't the case.


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 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Neorealist wrote:
So you are of the opinion that an unique HQ model is a closer fit to a harbringer of destruction than a regular cryptek is? Interesting.

Both are equipped with an Eldritch lance and a gaze of flame, the regular Cryptek has neither of these. Nothing in Szeras' profile indicates that he gave himself 4 legs because he uniquely decided to do it for himself. His fluff only states that he augments fellow Necron units. He has no improved ability to move through than that of the other Harbingers, and no indication that any other Harbingers of Destruction would be equipped any differently.

Harbinger status is an upgrade, not a separate model.

And? Many upgrades are represented across the entire game system with separate models.

But you have no evidence this is such an upgrade.

 Grey Templar wrote:
But you have no evidence this is such an upgrade.

So you want to argue Szeras isn't a Cryptek?

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But you have no evidence this is such an upgrade.

So you want to argue Szeras isn't a Cryptek?

Just because a special character has a larger base doesn't mean a nameless dude with similer wargear and such can have the same size base.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But you have no evidence this is such an upgrade.

So you want to argue Szeras isn't a Cryptek?

His fluff would suggest overlord more than cryptek.

rigeld2 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But you have no evidence this is such an upgrade.

So you want to argue Szeras isn't a Cryptek?

His fluff would suggest overlord more than cryptek.

What fluff are you reading? I have the Necron codex, no such thing is suggested and the model and equipment make him clearly a Cryptek.

Yet his position in the army list shows otherwise.

 Ghaz wrote:
Yet his position in the army list shows otherwise.

What being an HQ like the other Crypteks?

With the term base you have an advantage shooting but not when you are being shot at. Large templates will get him easily.

He's not an overlord by any sense since he doesn't unlock a court. Same as with Obyron and Orikan.


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 NecronLord3 wrote:
And? Many upgrades are represented across the entire game system with separate models.

Like? You name me a character model that has multiple models of the same guy with different upgrades that aren't available cross-packaging that I can go buy from GW right now and I'll concede.

As far as I can tell the only thing they do now is "upgrade kits", like for the destroyer lord and heavy destroyers, where you have to buy the standard model and the upgrade kit to make the correct model. But you can't buy a destroyer and heavy destroyer separately anymore, through GW anyway.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But you have no evidence this is such an upgrade.

So you want to argue Szeras isn't a Cryptek?

His fluff would suggest overlord more than cryptek.

What fluff are you reading? I have the Necron codex, no such thing is suggested and the model and equipment make him clearly a Cryptek.

The fluff on page 56. I was misunderstanding how Crypteks work. Never mind.

No. He's a different unit than other Crypteks. Not all HQs are the same unit.

 Kevin949 wrote:
He's not an overlord by any sense since he doesn't unlock a court. Same as with Obyron and Orikan.


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 NecronLord3 wrote:
And? Many upgrades are represented across the entire game system with separate models.

Like? You name me a character model that has multiple models of the same guy with different upgrades that aren't available cross-packaging that I can go buy from GW right now and I'll concede.

As far as I can tell the only thing they do now is "upgrade kits", like for the destroyer lord and heavy destroyers, where you have to buy the standard model and the upgrade kit to make the correct model. But you can't buy a destroyer and heavy destroyer separately anymore, through GW anyway.

Marneus Calgar has a PA and TA model iirc.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
He's not an overlord by any sense since he doesn't unlock a court. Same as with Obyron and Orikan.


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 NecronLord3 wrote:
And? Many upgrades are represented across the entire game system with separate models.

Like? You name me a character model that has multiple models of the same guy with different upgrades that aren't available cross-packaging that I can go buy from GW right now and I'll concede.

As far as I can tell the only thing they do now is "upgrade kits", like for the destroyer lord and heavy destroyers, where you have to buy the standard model and the upgrade kit to make the correct model. But you can't buy a destroyer and heavy destroyer separately anymore, through GW anyway.

Marneus Calgar has a PA and TA model iirc.

While I do see two different models on the site, they are separate packages (one is just him and the other is him with honor guard), however it does not appear to be two different "versions" of him. Unless I'm not looking in the right section.

Although looking at that page I do see they have two models for chaplains, one with a bolt pistol and one with a plasma pistol. *Shrug* So I suppose it's likely they could come out with separate models for the crypteks, though I thought there was buzz around the web about upgrade packs for them coming out for them "sometime".


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Guess I shouldn't doubt the power of GW wanting money.

Try Google. I believe the power armour version is OOP.

 Kevin949 wrote:
He's not an overlord by any sense since he doesn't unlock a court. Same as with Obyron and Orikan.


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 NecronLord3 wrote:
And? Many upgrades are represented across the entire game system with separate models.

Like? You name me a character model that has multiple models of the same guy with different upgrades that aren't available cross-packaging that I can go buy from GW right now and I'll concede.

As far as I can tell the only thing they do now is "upgrade kits", like for the destroyer lord and heavy destroyers, where you have to buy the standard model and the upgrade kit to make the correct model. But you can't buy a destroyer and heavy destroyer separately anymore, through GW anyway.

Chaplins and the 7 different models to represent it. 2 autarchs, multiple Farseers? How about running a mega armored ork Warboss without using the Thraka model, try that.

 Ghaz wrote:
Try Google. I believe the power armour version is OOP.

That's fine, but I wasn't really talking about how GW used to do it, more about how they're doing things now. Since it's much more applicable and all that.


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 NecronLord3 wrote:

Chaplins and the 7 different models to represent it. 2 autarchs, multiple Farseers? How about running a mega armored ork Warboss without using the Thraka model, try that.

Indeed, read my edited post above please.

You realize that was the point I was trying to make with quoting that rule, right? I simply added it to the previous posters comment because taking that one line out of context from the rest of the rule could still lead people to think you didn't have to model them on the base supplied, which isn't the case.
-Kevin949

Actually I didn't, I thought you were suggesting that I was selectively quoting rules language to support my point while ignoring language that contradicts it, and thereby implying that the exceptions in the portion you quoted did apply.

Another dead horse well and truly beaten.

Cheers!

NecronLord3 wrote:Both are equipped with an Eldritch lance and a gaze of flame, the regular Cryptek has neither of these. Nothing in Szeras' profile indicates that he gave himself 4 legs because he uniquely decided to do it for himself. His fluff only states that he augments fellow Necron units. He has no improved ability to move through than that of the other Harbingers, and no indication that any other Harbingers of Destruction would be equipped any differently.

And that is an interesting point. Can you indicate what part of the harbringer of destruction upgrade you feel 'is' providing the model with the 'modeled' spider legs as opposed to their usual set? As that is the reason it is on a larger base. This is a generic cryptek for comparison:


Also, how does having a gaze of flame and an eldrich lance make the model a cryptek? By that same logic Orikan the Diviner is a canoptek wraith...

 Neorealist wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:Both are equipped with an Eldritch lance and a gaze of flame, the regular Cryptek has neither of these. Nothing in Szeras' profile indicates that he gave himself 4 legs because he uniquely decided to do it for himself. His fluff only states that he augments fellow Necron units. He has no improved ability to move through than that of the other Harbingers, and no indication that any other Harbingers of Destruction would be equipped any differently.

And that is an interesting point. Can you indicate what part of the harbringer of destruction upgrade you feel 'is' providing the model with the 'modeled' spider legs as opposed to their usual set? As that is the reason it is on a larger base. This is a generic cryptek for comparison:

I fail to see why you would continue to reference a Cryptek that is not a Harbinger for use as a Harbinger. Harbingers are different and no model currently exists for one.

 Neorealist wrote:

Also, how does having a gaze of flame and an eldrich lance make the model a cryptek? By that same logic Orikan the Diviner is a canoptek wraith...

Why because he has a phase shifter any Overlord can take or access a 3+ Inv. save that Harbingers of Eternity can also have.

Answer this, would you argue with a player who runs a Thraka conversion as a Generic Ork Warboss(in Mega Armor)?

 Ghaz wrote:

pie zuri wrote:I can't think of any specific circumstance where a larger base would give you an advantage...

One advantage is you won't have as many models under blast and large blast markers.

 Neorealist wrote:
It's a mild advantage (larger bases are easier to spread out and still remain in 2-inch coherancy for the purposes of template, blast, and large blast weapons) so you'll want to talk to your tournament organiser to see if they'll allow it.

In a friendly game i'd personally have no problems with letting my opponent do just that, but again you'll want to chat with your other player(s) to verify if they are cool with the idea.

There is a small advantage to be gained, as has been recognized. It depends on how anal your TO is, because whilst you are marginally better off against templates and blasts, you also have a marginally greater footprint, thus taking up more room, thus giving you (marginally!) less room to deploy in.

It really really seems like it would depend on the TO. I'd be cool about it, but I am sad to say I know of people who would complain mightily at such a thing.
My solution- Incorporate the 25mm base to the 40mm bases. So you can have a scenic large base for them, but magnetize the 25mm to the 40mm so you can pop him off for a smaller "tourny legal" base So if anyone complains, you can just go "no worries" and pull them off their 40mm base!

 GiantKiller wrote:

You realize that was the point I was trying to make with quoting that rule, right? I simply added it to the previous posters comment because taking that one line out of context from the rest of the rule could still lead people to think you didn't have to model them on the base supplied, which isn't the case.
-Kevin949

Actually I didn't, I thought you were suggesting that I was selectively quoting rules language to support my point while ignoring language that contradicts it, and thereby implying that the exceptions in the portion you quoted did apply.

Another dead horse well and truly beaten.

Cheers!

NecronLord3 wrote:I fail to see why you would continue to reference a Cryptek that is not a Harbinger for use as a Harbinger. Harbingers are different and no model currently exists for one. .

Because all the harbringers are 'upgrades' for existing crypteks, and it is 'your' burden of proof to indicate why you feel that means they should be represented on a different base than they come with.

NecronLord3 wrote:Why because he has a phase shifter any Overlord can take or access a 3+ Inv. save that Harbingers of Eternity can also have.

No, it's because one of his pieces of wargear is a particle beamer; a weapon otherwise only available as an upgrade for a canoptek wraith.

NecronLord3 wrote:Answer this, would you argue with a player who runs a Thraka conversion as a Generic Ork Warboss(in Mega Armor)?

I wouldn't, because: 1) How someone chooses to model their ork warboss has next to no relevence on a discussion about what base to put harbringers on. 2) For all i know that is a legal combination, given my unfamiliarity with either model.

Seeing as its a topic of ongoing discussion, and it really boils down to a question of being allowed by the TO anyways, im just gonna magnetize the cryptek to be interchangeable between two bases....easy and done with.