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Howdy!

We all complain about the price of GW products, but after a discussion I had with a friend the other day, I decided to see which country really pays the most when it comes to Warhammer.

Some of you may be aware of the unofficial but interesting "Big Mac Index", used to assess PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) in different countries, relative to how much a McDonald's Big Mac costs.

I thought it would be interesting to apply a similar assessment to the price of a Space Marine Tactical Squad, not to assess PPP, but to figure out the relative cost per country in terms of how many hours (at the country's minimum wage) it would take to earn enough to buy a Space Marine Tactical Squad.

I'm using the tactical squad because I thought that it would be the most commonly bought item, even though it is for Warhammer 40,000, I believe this information is still relevant to Warhammer Fantasy players, as the pricing structure is the same across all three game systems GW produces. Now, a lot of these minimum wages are pretty shaky, as many of the countries do not have state-set minimum wages, instead, it is determined by unions, type of employment, type of employer, geographical location, etc etc etc. As such, if any of you Dakkanauts actually live in those countries and can give me a better estimate, by all means go ahead, I want this to be as accurate as possible. You'll probably notice that this does not take into account variable rates (such as tips), as there's no real way of establishing an average for these.

Below is a list of all the countries you can select on the GW homepage, with a number indicating how many hours of minimum-wage work it would take to earn enough to buy a Tactical Squad, in that country, directly from GW.

Anyway, without further ado, the BIG TAC INDEX

United States of America: 5.18 hours

United Kingdom: 3.72 hours

Australia: 4 hours

Belgium: 3.29 hours

Canada: 4.43 hours

Denmark: 2.3 hours

Finland: 3.75 hours

France: 3.37 hours

Germany: 3.82 hours

Ireland: 3.58 hours

Italy: 4.29 hours

Japan: 7.52 hours

Netherlands: 3.48 hours

New Zealand: 5.4 hours

Norway: 2.09 hours

Poland: 7.53 hours

Spain: 7.95 hours

Sweden: 3.64 hours

I'm inclined to believe that a few of the countries (especially Spain, geez, how can the minimum average wage per hour be 3.9 Euros?) who do not specify a minimum wage, but instead let the industry/company/union/etc set it's own, leads to a much wider variation of wages. In any case, it's interesting to see a general trend of between 3-4 hours work for a tactical squad (in general, I feel very sorry for you poor people living in Japan, 7 hours? Ouch.) but as I said, these minimum wages are -very- speculative, so if any of you believe you have a more accurate hourly rate estimate, don't hesitate to add it on here.

Finally, as an Australian, I find it hard to believe that it actually costs me -less-, relatively, to buy a Tac squad, as opposed to an American. Perception, huh?

Anyway, I hope you found this interesting.

That's quite surprising. Interesting research, well done.

Fascinating.

Here's one you can add:
Taiwan: 15 hours

(Tactical squad costs NT$1500, minimum wage is set at NT$17,880 per month. There's no actual minimum hourly wage but NT$100 is typical for e.g. McDonald's).

Thanks for the research.

BUT... how is minimum wage a useful measure of anything. Just as useful would be how many tactical squads can you buy on one months unemployment benefit.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
Howdy!

We all complain about the price of GW products, but after a discussion I had with a friend the other day, I decided to see which country really pays the most when it comes to Warhammer.

Some of you may be aware of the unofficial but interesting "Big Mac Index", used to assess PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) in different countries, relative to how much a McDonald's Big Mac costs.

I thought it would be interesting to apply a similar assessment to the price of a Space Marine Tactical Squad, not to assess PPP, but to figure out the relative cost per country in terms of how many hours (at the country's minimum wage) it would take to earn enough to buy a Space Marine Tactical Squad.

I'm using the tactical squad because I thought that it would be the most commonly bought item, even though it is for Warhammer 40,000, I believe this information is still relevant to Warhammer Fantasy players, as the pricing structure is the same across all three game systems GW produces. Now, a lot of these minimum wages are pretty shaky, as many of the countries do not have state-set minimum wages, instead, it is determined by unions, type of employment, type of employer, geographical location, etc etc etc. As such, if any of you Dakkanauts actually live in those countries and can give me a better estimate, by all means go ahead, I want this to be as accurate as possible. You'll probably notice that this does not take into account variable rates (such as tips), as there's no real way of establishing an average for these.

Below is a list of all the countries you can select on the GW homepage, with a number indicating how many hours of minimum-wage work it would take to earn enough to buy a Tactical Squad, in that country, directly from GW.

Anyway, without further ado, the BIG TAC INDEX

United States of America: 5.18 hours

United Kingdom: 3.72 hours

Australia: 4 hours

Belgium: 3.29 hours

Canada: 4.43 hours

Denmark: 2.3 hours

Finland: 3.3 hours

France: 3.37 hours

Germany: 3.82 hours

Ireland: 3.58 hours

Italy: 4.29 hours

Japan: 7.52 hours

Netherlands: 3.48 hours

New Zealand: 5.4 hours

Norway: 2.09 hours

Poland: 7.53 hours

Spain: 7.95 hours

Sweden: 3.64 hours

I'm inclined to believe that a few of the countries (especially Spain, geez, how can the minimum average wage per hour be 3.9 Euros?) who do not specify a minimum wage, but instead let the industry/company/union/etc set it's own, leads to a much wider variation of wages. In any case, it's interesting to see a general trend of between 3-4 hours work for a tactical squad (in general, I feel very sorry for you poor people living in Japan, 7 hours? Ouch.) but as I said, these minimum wages are -very- speculative, so if any of you believe you have a more accurate hourly rate estimate, don't hesitate to add it on here.

Finally, as an Australian, I find it hard to believe that it actually costs me -less-, relatively, to buy a Tac squad, as opposed to an American. Perception, huh?

Anyway, I hope you found this interesting.

Not really relevent. GW has overpriced the gak out of it, and people will pay whatever they think it will be worth. Day labor has nothing to do with the prices.

You trying to justify the expensive price of plastic injection is... odd, but not really relevent to the whole of the conversation that it is going to cost a 10-15 year old kid the same amount as a MDA educated lawyer, or a busness tycoon to play it.

The game is plastic figures, and a rulebook. It is Gak to ask someone to pay any more then reasonable for the lot, just to pad Warts pockets, and justify shoddy work.

The playing field can continue to get smaller and smaller, as you that hold out hope can pay the difference for those of us that have left GW behind.

Too many fish in the sea to continue to sophise B.S.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:




Japan: 7.52 hours



(in general, I feel very sorry for you poor people living in Japan, 7 hours? Ouch.)

Just as an aside, with the current exchange rate, it is cheaper to order from The War Store or some similar US discounter and pay international shipping than it is to pay official GW Japan prices.

Same thing in Australia... potentially from Japan as well.

Minimum wage is an easily obtainable stat, but probably not the best one to use. I'd try average income maybe?

 Makaleth wrote:
Thanks for the research.

BUT... how is minimum wage a useful measure of anything. Just as useful would be how many tactical squads can you buy on one months unemployment benefit.

Because a significant portion of the population earns around minimum wage. 5% earn at or below Federal minimum wage in the US and many states have higher min wage than that so they aren't included in the statistic (thanks labor bureau). They have a right to enjoy life as they see fit and finding out how much it may cost them to enjoy their hobby can be significant.

 Kaldor wrote:
Minimum wage is an easily obtainable stat, but probably not the best one to use. I'd try average income maybe?

Average income can also be inaccurate for this type of thing, notably recently because of the mining boom. Most miners aren't GW customers, but their wage still goes into the minimum wage, and barely affects the GW market.

You trying to justify the expensive price of plastic injection is... odd, but not really relevent to the whole of the conversation that it is going to cost a 10-15 year old kid the same amount as a MDA educated lawyer, or a busness tycoon to play it.

You seem to have misunderstood my intention, I'm not trying to justify or even explain GW's pricing strategy, I just thought it would be interesting to see whether it is evenly applied. I say again, this is not an attempt by me to defend GW's pricing strategy, at all, it's just information.

JoshInJapan wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:




Japan: 7.52 hours



(in general, I feel very sorry for you poor people living in Japan, 7 hours? Ouch.)

Just as an aside, with the current exchange rate, it is cheaper to order from The War Store or some similar US discounter and pay international shipping than it is to pay official GW Japan prices.

Isn't Japan still subject to the RoW trade ban? Or does that only apply to purchases from the EU?

I was in South Korea last year and tried to buy a load of GW stuff just when the RoW ban came in, in a country with no GW presence (and I believe 1 shop serving the nation's 60 million people) I'm guessing it effectively destroyed the market there.

 Surtur wrote:

 Makaleth wrote:
Thanks for the research.

BUT... how is minimum wage a useful measure of anything. Just as useful would be how many tactical squads can you buy on one months unemployment benefit.

Because a significant portion of the population earns around minimum wage. 5% earn at or below Federal minimum wage in the US and many states have higher min wage than that so they aren't included in the statistic (thanks labor bureau). They have a right to enjoy life as they see fit and finding out how much it may cost them to enjoy their hobby can be significant.

You are making my argument for me.
5% at minimum wage, heck, even 10%... doesn't really change the fact that 90 or 95% (of the workforce... I assume this is what you are talking about) are treated like they don't exist in this measure. So all it does is take an arbitrary number (no tips, no taxes, no subsidies or disbursements) and sees how long it takes to get to the cost of a Tac box.

I get the point, but it is not a measure of affordability, it's a measure of employment codes, tax, tipping culture, IR frameworks and lastly... cost of the tactical squad.

No-one was saying that they didn't have a right to enjoy life, but they are not the only ones in this hobby... so seems odd to single them out... even if obtusely.

The minimum wage in Finland is 8€ per hour so that makes TAC be 3.75.

Portugal's minimum wage is 2.375€/hour so that's 11.9 hours for a Tactical Squad.

This is really interesting! I can't say how much it really says about minimum wage laws by country or GW's questionable international pricing, but it's an interesting factoid.

 Makaleth wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

 Makaleth wrote:
Thanks for the research.

BUT... how is minimum wage a useful measure of anything. Just as useful would be how many tactical squads can you buy on one months unemployment benefit.

Because a significant portion of the population earns around minimum wage. 5% earn at or below Federal minimum wage in the US and many states have higher min wage than that so they aren't included in the statistic (thanks labor bureau). They have a right to enjoy life as they see fit and finding out how much it may cost them to enjoy their hobby can be significant.

You are making my argument for me.
5% at minimum wage, heck, even 10%... doesn't really change the fact that 90 or 95% (of the workforce... I assume this is what you are talking about) are treated like they don't exist in this measure. So all it does is take an arbitrary number (no tips, no taxes, no subsidies or disbursements) and sees how long it takes to get to the cost of a Tac box.

I get the point, but it is not a measure of affordability, it's a measure of employment codes, tax, tipping culture, IR frameworks and lastly... cost of the tactical squad.

No-one was saying that they didn't have a right to enjoy life, but they are not the only ones in this hobby... so seems odd to single them out... even if obtusely.

You are talking about several million people in that number. Many of them are GW's audience, teenagers or young adults.

Tips usually bring people up to minimum wage not above it.

 Surtur wrote:

Tips usually bring people up to minimum wage not above it.

I would have thought that minimum wage was the minimum amount per hour you have to pay someone to have them work... tips by definition being outside this.

And I am not dismissing these several million people. I just think it's as relevant as comparing the richest 5% of people in the population and then working out amortised costs for tactical squads.

It's a number... just not meaningful in terms of working out relative expensiveness of models between countries. Interesting none the less (I applaud the efforts! )

But! Cost (currency) already does that... exchange rates and everything!

Also, those in who work for minimum wage in America are eligible for food stamps as minimum wage here sets you below the poverty line. Just a thought on the cost of living which isn't included here....

 Makaleth wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

Tips usually bring people up to minimum wage not above it.

I would have thought that minimum wage was the minimum amount per hour you have to pay someone to have them work... tips by definition being outside this.

And I am not dismissing these several million people. I just think it's as relevant as comparing the richest 5% of people in the population and then working out amortised costs for tactical squads.

It's a number... just not meaningful in terms of working out relative expensiveness of models between countries. Interesting none the less (I applaud the efforts! )

But! Cost (currency) already does that... exchange rates and everything!

In quite a few states, people that are in the tipping industry (mainly restaraunts) have a reduced wage, and must claim their tips, here in Nevada, if a waiter/waitress doesn't bring in around $100 per shift they actually don't come up to minimum wage after taxes.

Makes you think more about what your servers really make, and what they have to put up with from their customers.

dpal666 wrote:

 Makaleth wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

Tips usually bring people up to minimum wage not above it.

I would have thought that minimum wage was the minimum amount per hour you have to pay someone to have them work... tips by definition being outside this.

And I am not dismissing these several million people. I just think it's as relevant as comparing the richest 5% of people in the population and then working out amortised costs for tactical squads.

It's a number... just not meaningful in terms of working out relative expensiveness of models between countries. Interesting none the less (I applaud the efforts! )

But! Cost (currency) already does that... exchange rates and everything!

In quite a few states, people that are in the tipping industry (mainly restaraunts) have a reduced wage, and must claim their tips, here in Nevada, if a waiter/waitress doesn't bring in around $100 per shift they actually don't come up to minimum wage after taxes.

Makes you think more about what your servers really make, and what they have to put up with from their customers.

ok, didn't realise that... and also, after taxes... why after taxes? If we are talking take home pay, then minimum wage isn't the correct figure (As these are generally before tax)

Woah woah woah.

Australian min wage is $15AUD/hr, the US is $7.25, and here in California it is $8.

Now those numbers by themselves don't mean crap.

What you have to look at to determine the "value" of those wages is by how many hours it takes to pay rent for an equal apartment.

So how much is a 1 bedroom Apartment in a decent part of Australia(no ghetto rates mind you)?

In California a decent apartment inland runs about $700-900 for 1 bedroom. In my area 1 beds go for about $1100-1300, and in higher end areas they go for $1700-2000.

Now in Kentucky you can get a 1 bedroom for $550, but that is not nearly as in demand as California real estate.

So in CA, it takes about 100 hours to pay for a 1 bedroom apartment inland at minimum wage before taxes. After taxes add about 20 more hours.

So for all those countries, crunch those numbers to see how your economy stacks up.

It only takes me 4 hours to earn a Tac squad, but it takes 100% of my income to pay our rent for our condo(thank God for combined income!).

Holy crap http://www.realestate.com.au/rent/property-apartment-with-1-bedroom-in-vic/list-1?activeSort=price-asc&preferredState=vic&maxBeds=1

$120~ a week? So $480 a month. That is 32 hours of minimum wage work to pay a months rent on a 1 bedroom apartment in Victoria.

If unskilled workers in Australia are only spending 1 weeks wages of PART TIME work on rent for a month, I feel no sympathy for them on GW prices. That being said, I'll still help them get my 30% off US MSRP, but that is only out of spite towards GW.

It takes an Australian 4 hours to earn a tac squad on minimum wage, and it takes me that long to earn one at 25% above my state's minimum wage.

Are there secret taxes that we aren't aware of that eat up some massive portion of that $15?

 Makaleth wrote:

dpal666 wrote:

 Makaleth wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

Tips usually bring people up to minimum wage not above it.

I would have thought that minimum wage was the minimum amount per hour you have to pay someone to have them work... tips by definition being outside this.

And I am not dismissing these several million people. I just think it's as relevant as comparing the richest 5% of people in the population and then working out amortised costs for tactical squads.

It's a number... just not meaningful in terms of working out relative expensiveness of models between countries. Interesting none the less (I applaud the efforts! )

But! Cost (currency) already does that... exchange rates and everything!

In quite a few states, people that are in the tipping industry (mainly restaraunts) have a reduced wage, and must claim their tips, here in Nevada, if a waiter/waitress doesn't bring in around $100 per shift they actually don't come up to minimum wage after taxes.

Makes you think more about what your servers really make, and what they have to put up with from their customers.

ok, didn't realise that... and also, after taxes... why after taxes? If we are talking take home pay, then minimum wage isn't the correct figure (As these are generally before tax)

It's hard to fully define what take home wages are. Here in the Bay Area of California due to housing costs, an apartment can range from $1000 and up for cheap ones depending on area. Living around the Bay is quite expensive. Factor in travel and other fixed expenses that may vary and even in a microcosm like the Bay, it's hard to fully determine what is left over.

Depends on the taxes. In general Aussies get charged higher taxes than the US...

But!

To put it in perspective... out of the top 5 most expensive places to live in the world... Sydney and Melbourne are in there (And Brisbane is in it or very close). All of these are MUCH more expensive than Cali (I used to live there as well)

Also, California is the most (or second) expensive in the entire country... tell me what the cost of rent in Detroit is and do the same calc

Australia's not cheap (but worth it )



Again,
California is a terrible example for ALL of America. That would be like using just Sydney for all of Australia.

 Aerethan wrote:
Woah woah woah.

Australian min wage is $15AUD/hr, the US is $7.25, and here in California it is $8.

Now those numbers by themselves don't mean crap.

What you have to look at to determine the "value" of those wages is by how many hours it takes to pay rent for an equal apartment.

So how much is a 1 bedroom Apartment in a decent part of Australia(no ghetto rates mind you)?

In California a decent apartment inland runs about $700-900 for 1 bedroom. In my area 1 beds go for about $1100-1300, and in higher end areas they go for $1700-2000.

Now in Kentucky you can get a 1 bedroom for $550, but that is not nearly as in demand as California real estate.

So in CA, it takes about 100 hours to pay for a 1 bedroom apartment inland at minimum wage before taxes. After taxes add about 20 more hours.

So for all those countries, crunch those numbers to see how your economy stacks up.

It only takes me 4 hours to earn a Tac squad, but it takes 100% of my income to pay our rent for our condo(thank God for combined income!).

Holy crap http://www.realestate.com.au/rent/property-apartment-with-1-bedroom-in-vic/list-1?activeSort=price-asc&preferredState=vic&maxBeds=1

$120~ a week? So $480 a month. That is 32 hours of minimum wage work to pay a months rent on a 1 bedroom apartment in Victoria.

If unskilled workers in Australia are only spending 1 weeks wages of PART TIME work on rent for a month, I feel no sympathy for them on GW prices. That being said, I'll still help them get my 30% off US MSRP, but that is only out of spite towards GW.

It takes an Australian 4 hours to earn a tac squad on minimum wage, and it takes me that long to earn one at 25% above my state's minimum wage.

Are there secret taxes that we aren't aware of that eat up some massive portion of that $15?

If only there was a way to get rid of all the spidies running around I'd move there.

Then let's look at the local price of a tactical squad in a different way. Here in Taiwan, my rent (three bedroom apartment) costs me the same as 14.67 boxes of tactical marines.

Alternatively, bringing the Big Mac back into this, a tactical squad is worth 12.5 Big Mac meals in Taiwan.

Very interesting information - thanks.

I wonder if a more accurate picture would be found by deducting standard tax in each country? Or using average disposable income?

Northern european countries have some of the highest qualities of life and therefore minimum wages in the world, but this is at the expense of high tax rates, which affect take home pay.

Actually; can we have some extra data alongside the hours at minimum wage? How about 'school lunches' - the average cost of a school lunch / typical given 'lunch money'

Here in the UK, it's pretty standard fare at the moment to pay around £2.50 - £3 per day in lunch money to your kids. This gets them a hot (school cafeteria) meal at lunch or a sandwich of some sort out and about, some sort of drink and some sort of snack for a break time. It should be pointed out that this figure has NOT actually changed that much in the last 10 years. When I was at high school (over 20 years ago (shiiiiit)) I got something like £2 a day.

Calling it £2.75 means a Tactical Squad is just under 8.4 lunches. 10 years ago, it was what, £12 for a tac squad? A mere 5 lunches (at around £2.25)!

How long do your kids have to starve themselves for a box of marines?

It's about right for my country, minimum wage around here is around €8,40 before taxes. A Tactical boxed set costs €31,-