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Ok so I took a long break I typically play during the day winter when it's too cold to play paintball. So I don't own 6th yet but from everything I've read so far it seems an all infiltrating genestealer army is basically obsolete. I'm getting pretty upset GW at this point. I used to use a mostly warrior army but then lack of immunity to instant death made them useless in my opinion. So after 5th came out I bought a whole bunch of genestealers and used lots of broodlords. Now that seems to have gone. Can someone still run a viable genestealer army? Any help would be great. I'll offer up my list of its needed.

Yep it's ruined. But don't fret! I have a spank-cron army for sale and it sounds like what you need. Lol

Ygmarl's are still good because they can assault out of reserves (thanks to an FAQ) but generally genestealers have fallen out of favour for Termagaunts and Tervigons.

genestealers can still be very mean, if you use them correctly . Yes they lost the first turn edge they used to have. However people tend to forget you can still assault with them if you go second. It all comes down to how you deploy them, t protect against your opponents first round of shooting.

Yeah actually I've been reading a bit and honestly I don't think they were affected that badly. I almost never get to go first anyways so there's that. I always infiltrated and never outflank. And from what I understand over watch isn't as bad in reality as it is on paper. I'm not terribly worried at this point. It will probably be more challenging but not so much so that it's no longer fun or viable

Wagz86 wrote:
Yeah actually I've been reading a bit and honestly I don't think they were affected that badly. I almost never get to go first anyways so there's that. I always infiltrated and never outflank. And from what I understand over watch isn't as bad in reality as it is on paper. I'm not terribly worried at this point. It will probably be more challenging but not so much so that it's no longer fun or viable

They were hit pretty hard though regardless. Flamers (Wall of Death) is pretty mean.

The no assault from reserves is pretty harsh to them.

I did use 2 Genestealers brood in my last 3 games and I still find them quite useful. I do not outflank with them anymore and infiltrate them instead... it still gives me an edge since infiltration occurs after everybody deployed their troops.

No second turn charge anymore, not from outflank anyway... I keep them hidden until they get a good target. The new charge rule (2D6 instead of 6") is great for them and since they have fleet you can reroll any of the 2 dice you rolled.

Also, overwatch can be scary on paper but it's not that bad... those 6's are hard to come by... and they need to wound. Flamers are annoying, but still they're not favored over the plasma guns and the meltaguns.

They are still one of the best cc troop the game have to offer, so no, I don't think they are broken or ruined... can't say the same thing about Warriors sadly, but you already know that...

Right nut warriors were ruined after 5th ed codex when they removed immunity to instant death. I'm not paying 30+ points for something that gets wiped off the table with one pie plate from an earth shaker no sir not no way not no how

Proxy wrote:
I did use 2 Genestealers brood in my last 3 games and I still find them quite useful. I do not outflank with them anymore and infiltrate them instead... it still gives me an edge since infiltration occurs after everybody deployed their troops.

No second turn charge anymore, not from outflank anyway... I keep them hidden until they get a good target. The new charge rule (2D6 instead of 6") is great for them and since they have fleet you can reroll any of the 2 dice you rolled.

Also, overwatch can be scary on paper but it's not that bad... those 6's are hard to come by... and they need to wound. Flamers are annoying, but still they're not favored over the plasma guns and the meltaguns.

They are still one of the best cc troop the game have to offer, so no, I don't think they are broken or ruined... can't say the same thing about Warriors sadly, but you already know that...

how many genestealers do you run and at what loadout? If I run my genestealers I usually go 2 groups of 12 + 1 broodlord and no other upgrades. Each unit comes out to 228 points which seems like a lot for one unit of troops that is as fragile as genestealers, but maybe I'm just playing them wrong.

well they can now glance vehicles to ribons now right even if its only on but then most people aren't using to many vehicles now i guess.

 kwah wrote:
well they can now glance vehicles to ribons now right even if its only on but then most people aren't using to many vehicles now i guess.

They actually Pen vehicles to ribbons because they come with rending claws so all rolls of are rending which adds D3 damage. So with an AV10 on the rear vehicles, genestealers either Pen or do nothing. For the AV11 on the rear, they can still glance but you are more likely to Pen too.

I have had amazing luck with genestealers in larger groups. I run full groups 19 and a broodlord simply so they can survive. They serve 2 purposes. I use them to provide a tempting target for early shooting attacks. A distraction to make sure my tervigon and flyrant can get some movement safely. If you ignore them,"which does not happen often" they get to do what they do so well.

Oh I'm currently running 6 squads with approx 15x GS and a 6x broodlords. It's the main body of my army. I'm toying with cutting other things to allow for more per squad. This is in a 2k pts list btw

I used to run 2 full squads, I have gotten away from that with 6th edition. As shooting is much more prevalent now. However more than once My genestealers have run through enemy infantry unchecked. I love assaulting Necron warriors. Nothing like watching the remnants of a genestealer squad sweeping advancing almost full squads of necrons.

You just hit the nail on the head for me. My strategy is to use that cumulative - 1 to ld and sweap like crazy. My friends get
so mad wwhen I sweap one of their decked out command squads its funny really cause all those awesome bonus war gear doesn't account for much if according to the rules your squad just get wiped out.

The problem with running too many Genestealers is you are left at an extreme disadvantage when dealing with other swarms. Orcs being the biggest issue i have run into. Yes Genestealers can hit small expensive squads quickly, and sweeping advance them, but against fearless units with wounds to spare they will get taken down little by little and do nothing. Comes down to setting yourself up and hit the targets that really matter. If genestealers get bogged down they turn into a huge useless point sink.

 shamroll wrote:
how many genestealers do you run and at what loadout? If I run my genestealers I usually go 2 groups of 12 + 1 broodlord and no other upgrades. Each unit comes out to 228 points which seems like a lot for one unit of troops that is as fragile as genestealers, but maybe I'm just playing them wrong.

I run 1 brood of 9 Genestealers with ST with a Broodlord with ST and a brood of 10 Genestealers with no upgrade for 140 pts.

I'm still not sure if the Broodlord is worth it, generally the brood of 10 Genestealers perform as well as the brood with the upgrade and the Broodlord. They die everytime on turn 4-5 but not before doing their job which is killing a squad of troops. Last game, half the brood with the Broodlord survived till turn 5 but it was targeted by an Havoc squad after finishing their second CSM squad and they all died.

Next game I'm planning to run 3 vanilla brood of 10 and see how they perform. The Broodlord and the ugrade does give a plus but even when facing Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines, a charge of 10 Genestealers is enough to wipe a squad. Maybe a larger brood is the key to their survival, maybe 2 squads of 15 with a Broodlorad each will perform better and survive longer.

Anyway Genestealers are far from being ruined, I can see where 6 broods can become an unstoppable force.

Anyone tried a brood of 20 in a micetic spore? I need to try that too .

Genestealers are still incredibly useful. If you think of them more as the elite shock troops that they are, rather than expendable spawn, then your closer to the right track. You should be using cover for these guys whenever you get the chance. These pesky little beauties are the ultimate close combat units, and they also happen to have fleet. Don't forget it! Fleet behind cover, then the next turn, charge them! Also, they have infiltrate, so do not forget to bring them in off the sides of the board, and if you don't like the position, reroll it! Choose the one you like more, and suddenly you can start causing a lot of problems for a person because now they can't really keep a functional gun line because their troops are about to have a lot more problems than standing in formation. As long as you can get them thrown into melee combat within a turn or two, you will have no problem quickly ending their ranged advantage.

Infiltrating Genestealers aren't dead, but Outflanking ones sure are.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Infiltrating Genestealers aren't dead, but Outflanking ones sure are.

Agreed... it's tougher to outflank with them now, unless your opponent deployed poorly or if there's a lot of cover on a side of the table that can shield you from that shooting turn they have to endure.

Personally I felt outflank in was pointless before. After you do it once your opponent knows to expect that next time. As far as the broodlord goes. I've had several occasions where the BL was all that was left and was a total pain for the rest of the game.

Any way you look at it, Genestealers are the only expendable troop that nids can take to deal with both heavy infantry, and medium vehicles. In an army that depends on elite slots. it is nice to have a little diversity in our troops. yes they are a little expensive, but honestly its worth it. We are essentially getting an elite choice in a troop slot. Your going to pay for them.

They aren't even that pricey. If you compare them to other armies troops then they arnt that bad. It's only when you compare them to either your own other troops or say like imperial guard troops

Oh they are expensive, You could include 2 harpy or an extra flyrant for the cost of a good full brood of of genestealers. Comes down to how you use them.

I refuse to give up on them, I also refuse to believe I have to include Tervigons. I know, Im living in the dark. Some day Ill get over it.

2000 Pts - Tyranids Roster
Hive Tyrant; TL Devourer w/Brainleech Worms x2; Hive Commander; Wings; Biomancy

The Doom of Malan'tai, Mycetic Spore

19 Genestealers and Broodlord
19 Genestealers and Broodlord
19 Genestealers and Broodlord

9 Genestealers and Broodlord
25 Hormagaunts
25 Hormagaunts

20 Gargoyles

Gargoyles screen Flyrant, I hope the Flyrant rolls Iron Arm. He'll help Doom come down second turn. Gargoyles also screen Stealers. Im hoping the Broodlords roll Endurance on the Biomancy table.
The Hormaguants are large enough to take a beating, theyre there to screen and be a general nuisance taking OBJ's.

The small stealer unit sits on OBJ for insurance - The larger ones do what they do.

I've experimented with tervigons its effective but in my opinion that type of swarm army is very boring. There's like no flavor at all its just swarm after swarm of the most basic of troop. I do believe that it does work strategically. But it's not fun for me. That's not how I choose to play my nids. Plus it's expensive to buy all those gants

Broodlords are extremely good for thier points. You can spam them to get a lot of psykers on the board.

The problem is the 'stealer by itself is rather sub-par. So your filling crap troops for good psychers.

Genestealers can't outflank effectively anymore, but they can still infiltrate well as their speed allows them to get the charge on turn two, when they can go about their normal business of ripping everything to shreds. The only difference is that your opponent gets a round of shooting at them, which, at first, sounds devastating, since your opponent is likely to turn every gun he has at them until they're a smoking pile of biomass. But if you make sure that you can punish your opponent if he does this, then you can usually benefit from this too.

Another nice benefit is that Broodlords are now much better, since it's an easy way to get tons of Psykers on the board, allowing you to overwhelm your opponent in this sense, thanks to the new Psyker rules.

The issue with using broodlords as psykers that is the fact they cannot use any shooting attack, beam, template or what not. Yes they get 2 psychic powers, but the chance they are going to pull a power they cannot us and being stuck with it is very high.

I still like to use 2 or 3 outflanking broods of stealers in my games.
Yes, there is a risk that they got shot down in the following turn but :
- of course put them in cover
- I always place 2-3 distraction units in the opponant area in the same turn : Doom, DS trygons, Mawloc, Ymgarls, devourgants in pod, you name it.
Suddenly, the stealers are far away from the top threat priority list and their survivibility increases dramatically.