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For me that's not bad cause I always use the - 1 ld anyways I almost never find any use for the other one. I could see the other one being useful during challenges but not my thing. So in don't mind trading that one for then off chance to get something maybe more useful. Chances are I still won't use use it. But it's not like I really sacrifice anything


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I don't fell GS are sub par in the least

Backlash wrote:
The issue with using broodlords as psykers that is the fact they cannot use any shooting attack, beam, template or what not. Yes they get 2 psychic powers, but the chance they are going to pull a power they cannot us and being stuck with it is very high.

Am I missing something? Looking at the biomancy chart I see the following

1) Iron Arm : Blessing
2) Enfeeble : Malediction
3) Endurance : Blessing
4) Life Leech : Witchfire
5) Warp Speed : Blessing
6) Haemorrhage : Focused Witchfire

Out of the 6 powers, only 2 need a BS to be utilized. p68 covers Malediction powers and it says nothing about needing a roll to hit.

Therefore only 1/3 of the chart is useless to a Broodlord. Since the broodlord gets 2 rolls on the chart, that means there is a 1/15 chance of them getting screwed with no power at all. You reroll if you already have the power so on the total chances are 1/3*1/5=1/15 chance of getting double witchfire.

Again, if I'm missing something let me know -- but it appears that a 1/15 chance of getting no power is a far cry from 'very high'

I kinda like telepathy now that I've looked at it. Biomancy is my 2nd fav

I've just had two very successful battles with large Genestealer broods running straight down the field. I think the way they got beefed in 6th is with how many points you down't have to spend on them anymore. Considering that Prefered Enemy works on both to hit and to wound as long as you keep the Swarm Lord near by you don't even need to worry about paying for scything talons or toxin sacs:

I usually roll Telepathy for the Swarm Lord because with four chances to roll he generally gets Invisibility. Rolling a squad of 30 gaunts with toxin sacs (I hear you all on gants but I converted all mine, I like my CC army with my Nids) in front and a squad of Venomethropes right with the Genestealers I'll dish out some feel no pain from one of the two squads of Zoanthropes dedicated to Biomancy while the Swarmlord makes the Genestealers invisible and gives them preferred enemy or if you have a flying hive tyrant with old adversary it is a lot easier now to drop him out of the sky and into combat at the most convenient time now and/or if you rolled with Adrenal Glands and/or your Zoanthropes rolled a couple enfeebles you are still re-rolling all your to hits of 1 and wounding on a 2/3+ while re-rolling your 1s, not to mention while invisible and feel no pain it is almost impossible to shoot that squad effectively and reduced to WS 1 + FNP almost impossible to do damage to it in CC.

I've had full squads of Boys bounce off that squad when they charged it and once they get close (especially if the Broodlord rolls Iron Arm) they are nigh unstoppable while you have a flying Hive Tyrant around to intercept any big vehicles or one from each of the Zoanthrope broods keeping his lance abilities since you can still charge a unit that has fallen out of a transport.

I've still had success with outflanking in larger battles since Acute Senses works as it does now, you just need to plan to have some Zoanthropes nearby for when they do to dish out the feel no pain. Outflanking now is more of a means of sparing them a round or two of shooting while getting them up the field.

...and since there really isn't a penalty anymore for charging through cover so long as the unit you are charging is already tied up it is very worth it and much more effective now to send in a wave of lesser creatures to pin an opponent in place for the wave of Genestealers to crash over them.

Backlash wrote:
You reroll if you already have the power so on the total chances are 1/3*1/5=1/15 chance of getting double witchfire.

Is this true? I always "sighed" if I rolled the same power twice and opponents said I couldn't reroll

Yup, can't have the same power twice so you have to reroll.

Stealers aren't worthless or unplayable but they aren't the be all, end all any more. If you want to run stealer heavy your're basically looking at needing very early target saturation with lots of them on your opponents doorstep turn 1 and the other elements of your army all being ranged/fast to also be a threat. Your opponent is going to get a shot off now so you need more survivability and that means numbers/alternate targets, or Endurance.

Overwatch is not the enormous threat some people make it out to be unless the enemy is spamming flamers, regular fire will have very little effect on your assaulters.

Ymgarls are still fantastic however and adding a brood or two would benefit your regular stealers by potentially pushing around the enemy as they eye terrain suspiciously.

They are a specialist unit so trying to use them exclusively will be hard but still workable. There's no good reason not to make one a Broodlord though, those boys are just mean.

Overwatch can be a problem and in more cirumstances than mass flamers. IG blob squads, necron warriors, tac squads are all units I would happily charge and kill in 5th, but rapid fire really puts the damper on the charge now. A 30 man blob squad is not something stealers really want to run into - that can be a lot of 6s.

Not being able to assualt from outflanking and cover saves in general falling from 4+ to 5+ is what kills them the most though, also multi assaults cost you the +1 attack which was also a great help in 5th, especially against car parks where you wanted to hit 2-3 vehicles at the same time.

To make them work the units have to be very small or very large - very large makes them able to get enough into assault but they are 17pts a model and have a massive bullseye on them. Smaller squads are less of an obvious target but any wounds at all results in a unit only useful for going to ground on a objective. There are times when this can be useful though.

I use small 5-man broods for home objective holding, since unlike gaunts they don't need sinapse support and thus need not be fearless and can go to ground.
or use unit of 5 with broodlord for distraction/additional biomancy psyker unit that also scores

 ruminator wrote:
Overwatch can be a problem and in more cirumstances than mass flamers. IG blob squads, necron warriors, tac squads are all units I would happily charge and kill in 5th, but rapid fire really puts the damper on the charge now. A 30 man blob squad is not something stealers really want to run into - that can be a lot of 6s..

30 double tapping guardsmen assuming they are all in 12 is 2 casualties, maybe 1 more with non-flamer specials. It's not a killer, it's even less if the Broodlord is leading the charge to soak the wounds.

Even Bolt/Gauss fire will only kill 1 stealer for every 12 shots fired. It's more than last edition but it's not going to stop anything but the smallest and flimsiest units in my experience.

When someone is using the snap shot at BS power from Divination on the other hand, *then* overwatch is scary.

 Dunklezahn wrote:

 ruminator wrote:
Overwatch can be a problem and in more cirumstances than mass flamers. IG blob squads, necron warriors, tac squads are all units I would happily charge and kill in 5th, but rapid fire really puts the damper on the charge now. A 30 man blob squad is not something stealers really want to run into - that can be a lot of 6s..

30 double tapping guardsmen assuming they are all in 12 is 2 casualties, maybe 1 more with non-flamer specials. It's not a killer, it's even less if the Broodlord is leading the charge to soak the wounds.

Even Bolt/Gauss fire will only kill 1 stealer for every 12 shots fired. It's more than last edition but it's not going to stop anything but the smallest and flimsiest units in my experience.

When someone is using the snap shot at BS power from Divination on the other hand, *then* overwatch is scary.

That's 2 deaths on average - but could be 3 or 4 if they roll well - but that's on top of the guaranteed round of shooting you have to face before you can assault. It's the overwatch combined with the lack of assault from infiltrate/outflank that kills them - if you have 10 stealers you could lose 4 in the turn before and then lose 2 in overwatch, so only 4 of 10 hit the combat. Rather than guaranteed tac squad death, it could be the other way round with those odds.

I think you need to go big, or not go at all, and by that I mean at least 60 in 1750pts;plus you need a venomthrope so you can keep that 5+ save vs shooting in turns 1 and 2. Obviously it’s not a point and click solution, but it can work.

 ruminator wrote:


That's 2 deaths on average - but could be 3 or 4 if they roll well - but that's on top of the guaranteed round of shooting you have to face before you can assault. It's the overwatch combined with the lack of assault from infiltrate/outflank that kills them - if you have 10 stealers you could lose 4 in the turn before and then lose 2 in overwatch, so only 4 of 10 hit the combat. Rather than guaranteed tac squad death, it could be the other way round with those odds.

Lets keep outliers out of it, they could also roll poorly and kill 0-1 which is the same variable you give but the other way. You are taking that round of shooting in both (because anyone standing troops within 18" of the board edges against a massed outflanking stealers force is an outlier) so the difference becomes 6 in combat last edition to 4 this edition.

Stealers go from 3 kills on the charge to 2, hardly tac squad death either way.

Throw Endurance on them and stick the Broodlord near the front and you may end up *better* off than 5th. Nids have changed and the rules have changed, armies are need to keep shifting to match those changes.

It's so frustrating though - with outflanking stealers in 5th they either left you a juicy bone or you forced them to bunch their army in the middle of the table. Either case was a win. Now they stick their defence lines in the corners, leave manticores standing around and there's nothing you can do about it without taking a full round of shooting.

Even at tournaments it was amazing how many people still deployed within 12-14" of a board edge as they were equally worried about the stuff coming down the middle.

The ability to assault from outflank was in their points, so now it's not I don't think they are worth 14 points base anymore.