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I'm assuming this is GW's version of DLC?

So basically, even if I have 2 squads of Devs, 2 Assault Squads and the Pods I need to buy that formation to get the dataslate??


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Tyron wrote:
I'm assuming this is GW's version of DLC?

Do most games' dlc require a several hundred dollar purchase of items which ylu may or may not already have??

No you don't need to. There is no rule in the game saying you must have a codex or other data source present when you play the game. (Afaik)

Tyron wrote:
I'm assuming this is GW's version of DLC?

I'm assuming we are months away from formations becoming something GW sells online alone on an individual basis, generally representing the single best choices in the game.

These "Only 100 available!" deals are just a test bed for the idea. People will pay for them gladly, gleefully looking forward to the power of their new army while simultaneously calling out about how they only bought them for the fluff.

It's no different than buying a Playboy "for the articles." (If people still buy the magazines, that is )

Lol exactly. If it's so fluffy and they are doing it for fluff reasons, then why didnt they buy 2 dev squads, 2 assault squads and 2 pods before?

Ad mech went first in the firts game, didnt pop stealth and shrouded until turn 3 i dont think. marines seized on the second time round.

I didnt comment too much on the ad mech and scat because this was my thoughts on the skyhammer formation...

Orks, csm, nids will struggle for sure vs any of these new books... A good nid player with a strong list will have a good shot though.


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Saythings wrote:
Always a fan of Wilson's work. More brawl battle reports! Go go go!

they are coming man! Thanks for your kind words :]

Lord Corellia wrote:


Do most games' dlc require a several hundred dollar purchase of items which ylu may or may not already have??

The monetary amount is unrelated as I'm referring to the rules but I would use LoL/Evolve/AAA games as examples.

 Accolade wrote:

Tyron wrote:
I'm assuming this is GW's version of DLC?

I'm assuming we are months away from formations becoming something GW sells online alone on an individual basis, generally representing the single best choices in the game.

These "Only 100 available!" deals are just a test bed for the idea. People will pay for them gladly, gleefully looking forward to the power of their new army while simultaneously calling out about how they only bought them for the fluff.

It's no different than buying a Playboy "for the articles." (If people still buy the magazines, that is )

The vibe I'm getting is GW are aware of gaming DLC and knows of it's success (regardless of player backlash) and are trying to integrate it within their system. So to me this would be the first stage and when it works they would release them digitally for a fee. This would enable them another monetary avenue while also helping weaker armies having a solution to compete but inevitably forcing players to one up each other to remain competitive.

My only concern however is GW will be starting a very dangerous trend while other companies are watching very carefully until it's accepted as the norm within the hhhoby and then follow suit. I hope I'm wrong on this.

Oh I think it's a terrible trend too and hope it doesn't come to pass. However, it seems my hopes are always dashed with GW. As it has been said many times before with GW, "hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."

Poly Ranger wrote:
No you don't need to. There is no rule in the game saying you must have a codex or other data source present when you play the game. (Afaik)

It is poor sportsmanship to not have the rules on hand to show your opponent. At least get a photo copy of the dataslate.

If your under 40 and can't get a hold of this dataslate within a few months I gotta say losing at 40k is probably the least of your issues

 Accolade wrote:
Oh I think it's a terrible trend too and hope it doesn't come to pass. However, it seems my hopes are always dashed with GW. As it has been said many times before with GW, "hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."

GW is the logical choice to start this off.

I'll keep an eye on how this turns out and do some trays to accommodate the trend.

 Dakkamite wrote:
If your under 40 and can't get a hold of this dataslate within a few months I gotta say losing at 40k is probably the least of your issues

I'll make it easy...

http://elite40k.blogspot.fr/2015/06/analysis-skyhammer-annihilation-force.html
http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2015/06/space-marine-pre-orders-skyhammer.html
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/06/new-space-marine-op-formation.html

And if you don't have it bookmarked, every 40k player should have this in their favorites (it's not there yet but will be soon enough):
http://bloodofkittens.com/formation-compendium/

I have said it before, and will say it again: I assert that bloodofkittens is not in violation of any copyright laws, because Games Workshop most certainly knows about it (seriously, who doesn't?) and hasn't asked them to shut it down. Since GW is the intellectual property holder, if it's cool with them, it should be cool with players.

And: if you think a formation is too powerful, that's fine, don't play against it. Advocate against a ban at tournaments, if you will. But, the solution isn't to say, "I don't have to worry about it unless someone buys the web bundle with the printed copy of the rules." Incidentally, I bought a Plasma Obliterator, and it didn't come with anything in the box. The GW rep sent to my FLGS a PHOTOCOPY of the sheets, including the rules (the ones in WD have an error on it), since the originals were sold out. I would hope that nobody has a problem with the legitimacy of that!


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Poly Ranger wrote:
No you don't need to. There is no rule in the game saying you must have a codex or other data source present when you play the game. (Afaik)

I agree. You should be able to present a generally accepted "undoctored" or "honest" copy of the rules if someone asks, though (as in, players can agree that this copy contains the original rules, and hasn't been modified). I own every freakin' GW and FW book printed (not web bundle dataslates, obviously...) for 40k since Rogue Trader, but there's zero chance I'm going to pack my copy of Shield of Baal, 3 codices, BRB, and 6 copies of White Dwarf with me everywhere I go. A mini paperback rulebook "just in case", and that's it. Someone wants to confirm rules, I pop it up on Blood of Kittens on my cell phone. I don't even take the codex for my own army (though I take a photocopy of the referece sheets in the back), unless it's brand new, like the new SM or Eldar one. Maybe I'll have it ion the trunk of the car by chance, but I'm not gonna bring it out to "prove" I own it >.<

Alright, that's fair then. Back when I was playing more regularly, there were no dataslates or multiple Codices per faction. Having your rulebook and Codex was the standard expectation.

Glad to hear that's been relaxed with all the varied sources for the rules now!

Not sure how gravdevs and ASM gonna do well against daemons, 2++ re-roll screamer stars, invisible hound star, Dronestar with 2+ cover saves.

Eldar codex is still more powerful in my opinion. Although sky hammer is a good counter against Scatbikes and WK/WG. Sometimes top tournament level play is kinda rock paper scissors.

$140 aus for assault squads this release, I new GW would make them worth buying lol.

Zagaboff wrote:
$140 aus for assault squads this release, I new GW would make them worth buying lol.

In fairness, you can just buy the old ASM if you don't care about the look. I dunno about Oz, but I've seen them discounted down to $20 a box here, and they aren't moving.

 Talys wrote:

Zagaboff wrote:
$140 aus for assault squads this release, I new GW would make them worth buying lol.

In fairness, you can just buy the old ASM if you don't care about the look. I dunno about Oz, but I've seen them discounted down to $20 a box here, and they aren't moving.

Does anyone have pics of the old vs. new? I'd like to see how different the sizes are.

@Lord Corelia - The models are the same size, if you aren't including the scenic base (and pose). The jetpacks, too.

Their height or bulkiness did not get buffed, unlike the Devastators, who are now physically larger

However, the new models have MUCH sharper plastic bits. Like, the recesses are deeper and crisper and precisely consistent, whereas the old bits were similar to the command/old devastator box, with the fuzzier plastic.

Ok, just wondering because a while back I found a second-hand copy of the 3rd ed Marine battleforce. The minis weren't necessarily out of scale but they definitely seemed thinner in some ways...

Glad to hear though that I should be able to mix the older ones and the new without much issue. My painting is crap enough that it should disguise any improvements in casting

 Dakkamite wrote:
Orks have been raped off the table without response since the dawn of 4th at least.

While part of me sympathizes, another part just laughs.

For myself, I prefer to adapt against new armies and tactics and keep the game fresh. Bring on the formation and D weapons- I enjoy the challenge.

Try a different game mate, and you'll see what a legitimate tactical challenge is.

Why? I enjoy 40K and the folks I game with. A lot of complaints sound like folks are not playing with like minded players. I typically pre-arrange games with opponents or attend local tourneys/larger two day events where myself and my opponent are in agreement with the parameters of what we are going to play (whether by mutual agreement or a tournament packet). I can and do play what is agreed upon and have little to no issues. Right now, I only own one army, Eldar, with nearly 20,000 points painted. The army ranges from masses of Guardians up to a Revenant and everything in between. I'm flexible and can and do play what folks are comfortable with playing. I certainly don't show up to the FLGS looking for a pick up game and find some unsuspecting person to plunk a Revenant on the table. If that is what folks are running into constantly, they need to take a new approach to getting a game in; the experience will be much more enjoyable.

7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

Hahaha spot on analogy!

 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

I think I found a quote worthy of my signature here.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

Amusingly, disturbingly accurate.

Let's see, can boltgun and grav penetrate the 9 void shields I'm protected by? Nah

Am I worried about the assault marines killing off 90 zombies with a 4+ fnp in one turn? Nah

Come at me, Space Marines

I'm starting to wonder if these new dexes are just a ploy by GW to get people who bought theirs last year to clamour for a new release or at least some new OP supplement.

TBH, seeing this formation almost made me not buy the new marine codex (I'd stopped buying stuff after the Eldar one came out). They're pretty close to pushing me to a point where I decide this isn't worth it anymore.

Only real counters I see for older armies is to flood the table with cheap models. but that's not viable in a timed game where moving 100+ models guarantees that the game will only get to turn 3.

jSewell wrote:
Honestly, I think all models should be able to assault from deep strike, but yes, the formation is a little overly strong and probably primarily because it is a Webstore exclusive, not that that means you'll have to buy it to see the rules

Actually I think you do, you need to buy the set to have the rules sheet to bring it out in a game, it is actually mini dex in that respect.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

This.... This is being sigged.

Right, so far from what I have seen the only battle reports with this formation in it have been between the new SM codex and one of the two/three other brand spanking new codex's. A balanced comparison to other armies this does not make. What about IG? Our AA stuff was denied the Interceptor rule, so we cant counter this formation as it comes in. Our close combat units have been significantly nerfed in the form of a massive price hike and our priest has had his epic chainblade of kill stolen by one of the top tier armies.
This list will rape an IG list. Sure, my surviving tanks and infantry sections may be able to drive the SM forces back after they have hit home but thats not going to be easy, hell calling it hard is an understatement.
Try and get some battle reports against some of the older not top tier codex's. Youll see the difference.

Finally. Marines can combat eldar shenanigans. Huzzah! The eldar overlords will grovel to the might of man!

If I gtg when the devs open fire, do the assault marines still get the bonus?

I'm of the understanding that once you've gtg once, you can't gtg again...

and the wording says if the unit gtg *as a result of the suppressing fusilade*

note the morale test is end of phase.

So... deploy in ruins. gtg when they open fire. they'll have to risk a close deepstrike, with -2 range (assaulting through cover).

I mean - it's brutal, but maybe there are tactical ways to counter it?