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So a Drop pod landed directly over the relic, and was then wrecked.

Is the objective under the wreck, forever unable to be picked up?

It seems that way, but anyone got a page number for me as I am having difficulty locating the exact rules for this situation.

Thanks

-DR

A wreck is terrain, so you should be able to walk into it.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
A wreck is terrain, so you should be able to walk into it.

But its on top of the relic

1. TFG move, expecting the drop pod to block all access to the relic, wrecked or not.

2. The relic itself is not any type of terrain. Objective markers are not anything. Wreckage would not stop the relic from being retrieved.

 DeathReaper wrote:
So a Drop pod landed directly over the relic, and was then wrecked.

Is the objective under the wreck, forever unable to be picked up?

It seems that way, but anyone got a page number for me as I am having difficulty locating the exact rules for this situation.

Thanks

-DR

How was the DP wrecked when it landed on the relic? Isn't it considered impassible and would either cause the DP to shorten the deviation or suffer a mishap?

 Kevin949 wrote:
How was the DP wrecked when it landed on the relic? Isn't it considered impassible and would either cause the DP to shorten the deviation or suffer a mishap?

It was not instantly wrecked.

It landed safely, then in in the next shooting phase it was glanced to wreckage.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
How was the DP wrecked when it landed on the relic? Isn't it considered impassible and would either cause the DP to shorten the deviation or suffer a mishap?

It was not instantly wrecked.

It landed safely, then in in the next shooting phase it was glanced to wreckage.

No, what I'm saying is that shouldn't it have mishapped if it landed on the relic? Though I looked through the book and I couldn't find anything saying if objective markers were impassable or anything, I'd say you'd have to discuss it before the game. Considering most objective markers aren't usually a "thing" other than some marker to stay near, the relic is a "thing" and personally I'd treat it as a neutral model on the board.

There's nothing to really dictate how to handle a model, of any type, standing or being placed "on" an objective marker.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
How was the DP wrecked when it landed on the relic? Isn't it considered impassible and would either cause the DP to shorten the deviation or suffer a mishap?

It was not instantly wrecked.

It landed safely, then in in the next shooting phase it was glanced to wreckage.

No, what I'm saying is that shouldn't it have mishapped if it landed on the relic? Though I looked through the book and I couldn't find anything saying if objective markers were impassable or anything, I'd say you'd have to discuss it before the game. Considering most objective markers aren't usually a "thing" other than some marker to stay near, the relic is a "thing" and personally I'd treat it as a neutral model on the board.

There's nothing to really dictate how to handle a model, of any type, standing or being placed "on" an objective marker.

Omg that'd be terrible for Chaos Daemons, Deepstrike on the objective and .... misshap

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
How was the DP wrecked when it landed on the relic? Isn't it considered impassible and would either cause the DP to shorten the deviation or suffer a mishap?

It was not instantly wrecked.

It landed safely, then in in the next shooting phase it was glanced to wreckage.

No, what I'm saying is that shouldn't it have mishapped if it landed on the relic? Though I looked through the book and I couldn't find anything saying if objective markers were impassable or anything, I'd say you'd have to discuss it before the game. Considering most objective markers aren't usually a "thing" other than some marker to stay near, the relic is a "thing" and personally I'd treat it as a neutral model on the board.

There's nothing to really dictate how to handle a model, of any type, standing or being placed "on" an objective marker.

Omg that'd be terrible for Chaos Daemons, Deepstrike on the objective and .... misshap

Well, I'm really only saying the relic should be treated that way, since it's directly interacted with.

 Kevin949 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
How was the DP wrecked when it landed on the relic? Isn't it considered impassible and would either cause the DP to shorten the deviation or suffer a mishap?

It was not instantly wrecked.

It landed safely, then in in the next shooting phase it was glanced to wreckage.

No, what I'm saying is that shouldn't it have mishapped if it landed on the relic? Though I looked through the book and I couldn't find anything saying if objective markers were impassable or anything, I'd say you'd have to discuss it before the game. Considering most objective markers aren't usually a "thing" other than some marker to stay near, the relic is a "thing" and personally I'd treat it as a neutral model on the board.

There's nothing to really dictate how to handle a model, of any type, standing or being placed "on" an objective marker.

Omg that'd be terrible for Chaos Daemons, Deepstrike on the objective and .... misshap

Well, I'm really only saying the relic should be treated that way, since it's directly interacted with.

That's the missions I struggled on the most with Daemons, oddly enough had to play against a solid Psyker Nidzilla hybrid list. They proceded to beat my face in that game >.<

The objective isn't a model of any kind. You have to move in contact with it and end your movement phase in contact to pick it up; Deep Striking works.

A wreck is just difficult and dangerous terrain. There is no rules basis for saying that it would block access to the objective. If you want to envision it, imagine the troops dig it out from under the wreckage.

 Mannahnin wrote:
The objective isn't a model of any kind. You have to move in contact with it and end your movement phase in contact to pick it up; Deep Striking works.

A wreck is just difficult and dangerous terrain. There is no rules basis for saying that it would block access to the objective. If you want to envision it, imagine the troops dig it out from under the wreckage.

Even though the model that wants to pick up the relic can not get into base contact with it?

The same situation can happen with a vehicle that gets wrecked on top of the objective. You can move over the wreck, but you can not get into base contact with the relic, so how would you pick it up. it seems like the objective would be under the wreck, forever unable to be picked up.

Fair point; I guess you have to houserule it a bit there.

So, wrecks are terrain. On page 11, it says if you can't put your mini in terrain exactly where you want it, then you just counts-as it where you want the model in question to be.

In this case, wobbly model syndrome allows you to put your model inside of another model, because the way the particular terrain is constructed wouldn't allow you to place it where you actually want it.

Agreed. A wreck is area terrain. There's nothing stopping you from getting into base to base with the Relic.

WMS only covers times when "both players have agreed and know [the models] 'actual' location. If, later on, your enemy is considering shooting at the model, you will have to hold it back in the proper place so he can check line of sight." P.11

The model can not be held in the proper place because there is a wrecked vehicle occupying that physical space.

 DeathReaper wrote:
WMS only covers times when "both players have agreed and know [the models] 'actual' location. If, later on, your enemy is considering shooting at the model, you will have to hold it back in the proper place so he can check line of sight." P.11

The model can not be held in the proper place because there is a wrecked vehicle occupying that physical space.

I think you're making this more difficult than it needs to be.

DeathReaper wrote:The model can not be held in the proper place because there is a wrecked vehicle occupying that physical space.

non-impassible terrain is preventing you from placing a mini where you should otherwise be able to place one because the terrain has been modeled in such a way to prevent you from placing your mini where you want to.

This is exactly the kind of thing this rule covers.

Were we talking about impassible terrain or enemy models, or something, that might be a different story, but as it's not, it's not.

I mean, if your interpretation of the rules is correct, then what's to stop me from always placing a regular piece of terrain on top of the relic? After all, the rules say it goes in the center of the board, not on top of any terrain piece in the center of the board.

What if the drop pod was never wrecked? Your opponent can't move within 1" of it, so they can never pick up the relic.

I'm such an ass.

That's why it is a bit of a TFG move to dump a pod on top of an objective. Of course, destroying it does become more of an option...

And of course, the guys inside can't grab the relic, either. As they immediately have to disembark, they cannot start a phase in base-to-base contact with the relic itself.

yeah but they can just blow it up.

Parking vehicles over the relic to delay by one turn is a legit strategy

Legit, but still asinine. At least GW requires troops to be deployed from transports to hold objectives now...

Pick up his drop pod toss it on the floor and say see i can grab it now, same as tfg douchebaggery.

Lungpickle wrote:
Pick up his drop pod toss it on the floor and say see i can grab it now, same as tfg douchebaggery.

Because that would solve anything...

GG internet tough guy

The relic cannot be "under' a wreck (underneath area terrain), as that would be considered impassable terrain. Therefore it would be moved to the closest legal position.

Fragile wrote:
The relic cannot be "under' a wreck (underneath area terrain), as that would be considered impassable terrain. Therefore it would be moved to the closest legal position.

Since when is a "wreck" impassible?

I love how wobbly model syndrome always ends up being let's break physics syndrome.

 Crablezworth wrote:
I love how wobbly model syndrome always ends up being let's break physics syndrome.

It's GW's Martian Man-Hunter. If you're not a comic buff PM and I can explain a bit ^^

rigeld2 wrote:
Agreed. A wreck is area terrain.

This is incorrect. The wreck is not area terrain. They are "left on the table and effectively become a piece of terrain (conferring a 5+ cover save), counting as both difficult and dangerous terrain." P.74

Nothing about area terrain there. Unless it is somewhere else and I missed it. If so point me there please and thanks.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Agreed. A wreck is area terrain.

This is incorrect. The wreck is not area terrain. They are "left on the table and effectively become a piece of terrain (conferring a 5+ cover save), counting as both difficult and dangerous terrain." P.74

Nothing about area terrain there. Unless it is somewhere else and I missed it. If so point me there please and thanks.

They're probably confusing wrecked with explodes.


But ya, seriously, wobby model syndrome is for, you guessed it, wobbly models. It's also not an entitlement, as your opponent essentially has veto power.

Example:



Wow, that terrain sure is pretty, too bad it's not very practical in game terms and a wobbly model syndrome nightmare. If an opponent was say moving an infantry unit over it, he may have trouble posiitioning a few of his models because of all the incline surfaces. Most reasonable players would have no problem if a few had to be placed on their side or off to the side after both players had agreed to their actual location.

The problem is, people (douches) take that concept on go bat gak crazy with it and before long they're doing stuff like "ok so my rhino is actually halfway through this wall holding a hypothetical posiition and I don't need you (my opponent) to agree and be cool with this because I selectively choose what parts of the rules I apply".

pg 11
"Sometimes you may find that a particular piece of terrain makes it hard to put a model exactly where you want. If you delicately balance it in place, it is very likely to fall as soon as somebody nudges the table, leaving your beautifully painted miniature DAMAGED or even broken. In cases like this, we find it is perfectly acceptable to leave the model in a safer position, AS LONG AS BOTH PLAYERS HAVE AGREED and know its "actual" location. If later on, your enemy is considering shooting at the model, you will have to hold it back in the proper place so he can check line of sight."


In terms of the drop pod, the same would seem to apply to any mission with objectives. Now. here's the thing, there's no standard size or dimensions for objectives so if your objective is quite 3 dimensional I can't see there being an issue because no matter what the drop pod is likely angled or listing to one side due to the height of the objective marker and models would be able to make base contact once its wrecked (the inch rule no long applying). However if your objective markers are small and rather flat, you've got a problem. You really should discuss the potential ramifications before throwing dice. The more 2D the objective marker, the easier the denial. Think about it, you plop a dreadnought over a poker chip and even though in the rules its not a denial unit, you can't come within an inch of it unless you're assaulting And once it's wrecked, it still doesn't change the fact that your models can't make base contact. I'm not suggesting being TFG but you want to be mindful of this possible issue and discuss a solution BEFORE the game starts, because once you start rolling dice, the rulebook won't be much help.