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Skyray
*Skyray becomes fast attack, it's markerlights get skyfire (duh)

Sniper Drones
*Sniper Drones become elites (not heavy support)

*Railrifles gain “sniper” USR (duh.)

Firewarriors
*Shas'ui incorporated for free, max squad size increased to 20.

Crisis Suits
*All can buy VRTs
*Drones count as wargear and don't remove independent character status
Stealth suits
*Can exchange burst cannon for fusion blaster, missle pod, flamer or plasma rifle at @1 per 3 models

Pathfinders
*Can buy stealth field emitter. Gives shrouded. 20pts

Markerlights
[u]*Markerlights hit flyers at normal BS -1
*A markerlight hit may be used to convey skyfire to a unit
*2 markerlight hits may be used to covey twinlinked USR to a unit

Gear changes
*Emp Grenades have haywire USR
*Cyclic Ion Blaster becomes rending
*All “special issue” wargear is no longer special issue
*Flechette Dischargers can be taken on crisis suits @ 15 points

Forgeworld
[/u]Tetras, XV9s, special characters, remoras and barracudas become official.

shasolozo wrote:
Skyray
*Skyray becomes fast attack, it's markerlights get skyfire (duh)

Sniper Drones
*Sniper Drones become elites (not heavy support)

*Railrifles gain “sniper” USR (duh.)

Firewarriors
*Shas'ui incorporated for free, max squad size increased to 20.

Crisis Suits
*All can buy VRTs
*Drones count as wargear and don't remove independent character status
Stealth suits
*Can exchange burst cannon for fusion blaster, missle pod, flamer or plasma rifle at @1 per 3 models

Pathfinders
*Can buy stealth field emitter. Gives shrouded. 20pts

Markerlights
[u]*Markerlights hit flyers at normal BS -1
*A markerlight hit may be used to convey skyfire to a unit
*2 markerlight hits may be used to covey twinlinked USR to a unit

Gear changes
*Emp Grenades have haywire USR
*Cyclic Ion Blaster becomes rending
*All “special issue” wargear is no longer special issue
*Flechette Dischargers can be taken on crisis suits @ 15 points

Forgeworld
[/u]Tetras, XV9s, special characters, remoras and barracudas become official.

Why would moving Sniper Drones to Elite make be useful? They would compete with XV8s and then no one would take them >.>
Sniper drones need to be reworked to be viable for any slot.

Could you elaborate on your ideas for marker lights?
Would twinlinking be in place of increasing ballistic skill? Do you think the other effects of Markerlights should remain?

I think Tau would be a little too good at shooting down Fliers if markerlights would allow any unit to skyfire.

Sniper drones would work if they could be bought with FW and ignored unit cohesion (Like they do right now, but for FW)

And giving a single marker the ability to grant skyfire is insane. It makes a flyer a suicide choice against Tau.

Isnt the CIB rule better than the BRB rending right now? IIRC it makes the shot AP1 instead of AP2.

Interesting thoughts...but i'm going to say: 22 model firewarrior squad? Thats a negative Nightrider. Was this for a private fan-dex?

 OutlawBandit wrote:
Isnt the CIB rule better than the BRB rending right now? IIRC it makes the shot AP1 instead of AP2.

But at S3 it's really not going to do anything to vehicles and has the same effect on anything with a 2+ armor save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the problem with FW is they have a high price tag for a unit that can't take any special weapons. So I'm not spending 200 points more of the same crap that I hate now.

Here is what I would like to see:
Reduction in point cost for all units in general. Increased BS.

Suits:
4 classes or suits, each differing in special ability, number of hard points, and point cost. Suits may use any weapon from the weapon list.
Stealth suits- 1 hard point, stealth + shroud, elite slot (great at holding cover, bad because they only have one weapon slot)
Speed suits- 2 hard points, move 12'' (would need a new model.) fast attack slot (good mobility and twin link potential, no third slot means no multi-tracker if the weapons are different)
Crisis suits- 3 hard points, no real special ability, elite slot (extremely flexible, no real advantages)
Broad side suit- 4 hard points, ability to take super heavy weapons (like l rail guns or and possibly other. ) heavy slot (able to take big guns, slower with more cost + fights for heavy spot)

I think this would make all suits viable with different purposes. It also adds a lot of flexibility to the suits. Do you want a stealth suit with a missile pod? Want fast twin linked missile pods? Or do you want missile pods and a plasma rifle to go with it?

Marker lights:
Pathfinders don't need a devil fish
Marker lights are assault to add mobility
More marker light effects like -1 marker light to aim one shot at anyone in the group and more weapons like the seeker missiles that need marker light hits to work.

Fortification:
I would like to see a Tau fortification that has a high point for broadsides to sit on, a seeker missile silo and something to do with marker lights (possible every enemy unit within 36'' gets one marker light hit a round)

Character:
I would love to see character with unique abilities. Maybe supportive characters like a water caste HQ that upgrades ally of convenience to battle brother and desperate ally to ally of convenience. Suits with unique wargear or characters that make suits into troop choices.

Other fun things:
I would like to see unique technology, we have black sun filters, maybe we should make black sun generators with give the night fire effect to all units fireing at the unit with the generator.








Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Savageconvoy wrote:

And giving a single marker the ability to grant skyfire is insane. It makes a flyer a suicide choice against Tau.

Not necessarily. You still need a marker light hit which requires a 6, After that the unit still needs to hit the vehicle, penetrate its armor and not roll a save. Are normal vehicles considered suicide against tau? Just keep flyers away from our pathfinders which isn't hard to do.

Sniper Drones arent worth a Heavy choice and they really dont fit the role of heavy. They fit better in elite. No sane person would give up a broadside unit or hammerhead for a sniper drone squad. But they might give up a stealth suit or a crisis suit (9 str 7 ap3 pinning shots is nothing to sneeze at)

Markerlights still need to hit the flyer (avg bs 2 means 5+=30%, then the weapon needs to hit bs 3=50% or bs 4 means 66% chance)
so really that ends up being around a 15-20% chance instead of a 17% chance (hitting on a 6). Hardly game breaking. And seeing that others can pick up flak missles and just hit on a 66% chance means it's definitely not game breaking.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Interesting thoughts...but i'm going to say: 22 model firewarrior squad? Thats a negative Nightrider. Was this for a private fan-dex?

it's a 20 model fw squad.

And yes, this is wishlisting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OutlawBandit wrote:
Isnt the CIB rule better than the BRB rending right now? IIRC it makes the shot AP1 instead of AP2.

Not really. There's more to rending than AP.

Also it's not about making everything better it's about making Tau competitive and keeping things balanced.

Sure its 20 guys until I add in two markerlight drones. Because 20 guys shooting at BS 4-5 with rifles is GODLY. Its super efficient. Therefore 22 model squad. I would totally payup 260pts to make that happen. Popping six dudes off to get you to morale checks would suck hard. Do-able but annoying. More power to you then.

Tau really need better anti-air choices and more effective Kroot more than anything else...

You need 1 Markerlight to give one tetra Skyfire, which grants three units Skyfire or one broadside BS4-5 and Skyfire. It really becomes wonky once you start considering A10-11 where a 20 man squad of BS4-5 FW will destroy it.

And I really don't see Sniper Drones as elites. They are drones, not an elite force. They are competing against a very versatile suit (Stealth suit should go to FA IMO) and the rail rifle is only S6, which still wounds marines on a 2+. I seriously think it would serve better as an unattached unit purchased with FW and have access to a more diverse selection of weapons. It makes drones and FW far more useful.

This is what I would like to see for Tau:

Points Reductions Across the board on MOST units: Most things are at least 2 points over-costed on a ppm basis. A number of things don't need their stats changed (Fire Warriors don't need BS4), they just need to be cheaper.
Kroot: Kroot need a massive overhaul. I'd drop them to 6 PPM and give them either a 6+ or a 5+ save standard, with the ability to upgrade to either a 5+ or 4+. Shapers should be a stand-alone HQ choice. They should also just straight up have stealth and move through cover instead of Fieldcraft, which is useless when playing on anything but a forested board (In a lot of games its completely dead).
Markerlights: A new markerlight table needs to be written. They should also be assault weapons, and be an automatic with a Shas'Ui.
Hammerhead: The FW turret options need to be included. Additionally, the Railgun needs to be improved.
Vespids: Need a points reduction. The Neutron Blaster should be improved (18" Range + Armourbane Maybe?)
Rail Rifles: Should be S9, AP2, 48" Range. Perhaps tack rending on as well. However, this comes with a points modification in whatever direction necessary.
Gun Drone Squads: Should be significantly cheaper (going through old 4th codices it slowly becomes apparent that at the time GW extremely over-valued Jump Infantry, these things are 12 POINTS). I would also like to see the option for weapons upgrades on Gun Drones. Drones also need an improved BS.
Burst Cannons: I would like to see these at AP4 just to make them a better alternative than they already are (This will effectively make them assault 3 heavy bolters with half the range)
Fusion Blaster: Tau are supposed to be shooty, and a meltagun doesn't quite have 'shooty' range. I'd maybe give it an 18 inch range, and possibly drop it down to S7 while still having melta to make up for it (slightly less likely to penetrate, but more likely to get melta.
Pirhanna: Needs better weapons options.
Tetra: Needs to be put in the codex:
Skyray: I would like to see it's networked markerlights get Skyfire and Interceptor, and give it a special rule allowing it to fire seeker missiles if the markerlights fired with interceptor hit.
Special Characters: All need to be reworked. Would like to see more SC's. Would like to see if the Space Pope is playable at 50 points.

EDIT: Also as a general note markerlights are what make Tau special. They should have access to more of them.

Agree with many things said by RegalPhantom. not everything but a lot. Many changes seem too drastic. Like Str 9 Rail rifles. This would constitute a 'heavy' weapon in infantry squad which is against Tau doctrine.

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Agree with many things said by RegalPhantom. not everything but a lot. Many changes seem too drastic. Like Str 9 Rail rifles. This would constitute a 'heavy' weapon in infantry squad which is against Tau doctrine.

Admittedly the Rail Rifle thing was sorta a back of the hand/spot of the moment idea. They do need to be powered up, however, and it doesn't actually make the rail rifle any more 'heavy' in gameplay terms than it already is, just more powerful. With the exception of their FTL tech, Tau technology is more advanced than the Imperiums, so if the Imperium can make a man-portable S9 AP2 rifle, then the Tau should be able to make a more portable one (as a note, the thing is basically a Lascannon). Upon reflection I would maybe make this as S7 or 8 instead, because even S6 is low for a weapon which can do light anti-tank duties (Its a frickin railgun), but it still needs to be a bigger gun than they already have.

RegalPhantom wrote:

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Agree with many things said by RegalPhantom. not everything but a lot. Many changes seem too drastic. Like Str 9 Rail rifles. This would constitute a 'heavy' weapon in infantry squad which is against Tau doctrine.

Admittedly the Rail Rifle thing was sorta a back of the hand/spot of the moment idea. They do need to be powered up, however, and it doesn't actually make the rail rifle any more 'heavy' in gameplay terms than it already is, just more powerful. With the exception of their FTL tech, Tau technology is more advanced than the Imperiums, so if the Imperium can make a man-portable S9 AP2 rifle, then the Tau should be able to make a more portable one (as a note, the thing is basically a Lascannon). Upon reflection I would maybe make this as S7 or 8 instead, because even S6 is low for a weapon which can do light anti-tank duties (Its a frickin railgun), but it still needs to be a bigger gun than they already have.

What if rail rifles were accessable to FW squads as a S7 or S8 weapon with a 36 inch range? I think FWs could use some sort of special weapon to give them a little bit of teeth. And Pulse Carbines should be reworked as well.
Or what if Fire Warriors had the option of giving x warriors a man portable burst cannon?...on second though a lot more elaboration is needee because of how many things in the tau codex would need to be changed to properly explain their role.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
You need 1 Markerlight to give one tetra Skyfire, which grants three units Skyfire or one broadside BS4-5 and Skyfire. It really becomes wonky once you start considering A10-11 where a 20 man squad of BS4-5 FW will destroy it.

And I really don't see Sniper Drones as elites. They are drones, not an elite force. They are competing against a very versatile suit (Stealth suit should go to FA IMO) and the rail rifle is only S6, which still wounds marines on a 2+. I seriously think it would serve better as an unattached unit purchased with FW and have access to a more diverse selection of weapons. It makes drones and FW far more useful.

That's easily remedied by not allowing markerlights to benefit from markerlight hits. A no brainer.

The drones arent the elite ones, it's the controllers that are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sandinistato wrote:

RegalPhantom wrote:

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Agree with many things said by RegalPhantom. not everything but a lot. Many changes seem too drastic. Like Str 9 Rail rifles. This would constitute a 'heavy' weapon in infantry squad which is against Tau doctrine.

Admittedly the Rail Rifle thing was sorta a back of the hand/spot of the moment idea. They do need to be powered up, however, and it doesn't actually make the rail rifle any more 'heavy' in gameplay terms than it already is, just more powerful. With the exception of their FTL tech, Tau technology is more advanced than the Imperiums, so if the Imperium can make a man-portable S9 AP2 rifle, then the Tau should be able to make a more portable one (as a note, the thing is basically a Lascannon). Upon reflection I would maybe make this as S7 or 8 instead, because even S6 is low for a weapon which can do light anti-tank duties (Its a frickin railgun), but it still needs to be a bigger gun than they already have.

What if rail rifles were accessable to FW squads as a S7 or S8 weapon with a 36 inch range? I think FWs could use some sort of special weapon to give them a little bit of teeth. And Pulse Carbines should be reworked as well.
Or what if Fire Warriors had the option of giving x warriors a man portable burst cannon?...on second though a lot more elaboration is needee because of how many things in the tau codex would need to be changed to properly explain their role.

What you're describing it a space marine tactical squad. This is tau. That's not how firewarriors should work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RegalPhantom wrote:
This is what I would like to see for Tau:

Points Reductions Across the board on MOST units: Most things are at least 2 points over-costed on a ppm basis. A number of things don't need their stats changed (Fire Warriors don't need BS4), they just need to be cheaper.
Kroot: Kroot need a massive overhaul. I'd drop them to 6 PPM and give them either a 6+ or a 5+ save standard, with the ability to upgrade to either a 5+ or 4+. Shapers should be a stand-alone HQ choice. They should also just straight up have stealth and move through cover instead of Fieldcraft, which is useless when playing on anything but a forested board (In a lot of games its completely dead).
Markerlights: A new markerlight table needs to be written. They should also be assault weapons, and be an automatic with a Shas'Ui.
Hammerhead: The FW turret options need to be included. Additionally, the Railgun needs to be improved.
Vespids: Need a points reduction. The Neutron Blaster should be improved (18" Range + Armourbane Maybe?)
Rail Rifles: Should be S9, AP2, 48" Range. Perhaps tack rending on as well. However, this comes with a points modification in whatever direction necessary.
Gun Drone Squads: Should be significantly cheaper (going through old 4th codices it slowly becomes apparent that at the time GW extremely over-valued Jump Infantry, these things are 12 POINTS). I would also like to see the option for weapons upgrades on Gun Drones. Drones also need an improved BS.
Burst Cannons: I would like to see these at AP4 just to make them a better alternative than they already are (This will effectively make them assault 3 heavy bolters with half the range)
Fusion Blaster: Tau are supposed to be shooty, and a meltagun doesn't quite have 'shooty' range. I'd maybe give it an 18 inch range, and possibly drop it down to S7 while still having melta to make up for it (slightly less likely to penetrate, but more likely to get melta.
Pirhanna: Needs better weapons options.
Tetra: Needs to be put in the codex:
Skyray: I would like to see it's networked markerlights get Skyfire and Interceptor, and give it a special rule allowing it to fire seeker missiles if the markerlights fired with interceptor hit.
Special Characters: All need to be reworked. Would like to see more SC's. Would like to see if the Space Pope is playable at 50 points.

EDIT: Also as a general note markerlights are what make Tau special. They should have access to more of them.

Making the vespid blasters torrent might work.

I dig your idea for the fusion blasters too. str 7, heavy 1, 18 inch range, melta within 12?

RegalPhantom wrote:
Kroot: Kroot need a massive overhaul. I'd drop them to 6 PPM and give them either a 6+ or a 5+ save standard, with the ability to upgrade to either a 5+ or 4+. Shapers should be a stand-alone HQ choice. They should also just straight up have stealth and move through cover instead of Fieldcraft, which is useless when playing on anything but a forested board (In a lot of games its completely dead).

Fieldcraft is a leftover from 4e's terrain rules, back before true line of sight; Kroot definitely need to be rewritten.

RegalPhantom wrote:

EDIT: Also as a general note markerlights are what make Tau special. They should have access to more of them.

...You do know you can already get markerlights on Stealthsuits, Fire Warriors, drones for everyone with wargear access, Sky Rays, Tetras (if you're allowing Forge World units), and every model in a Pathfinder squad, right? Tau have plenty of Markerlights...

RegalPhantom wrote:


Admittedly the Rail Rifle thing was sorta a back of the hand/spot of the moment idea. They do need to be powered up, however, and it doesn't actually make the rail rifle any more 'heavy' in gameplay terms than it already is, just more powerful. With the exception of their FTL tech, Tau technology is more advanced than the Imperiums, so if the Imperium can make a man-portable S9 AP2 rifle, then the Tau should be able to make a more portable one (as a note, the thing is basically a Lascannon). Upon reflection I would maybe make this as S7 or 8 instead, because even S6 is low for a weapon which can do light anti-tank duties (Its a frickin railgun), but it still needs to be a bigger gun than they already have.

(LOL, I think tthis is the first time I got the Quote thing to do what I want )

Ah! Okay. Off the cuff. That makes more sense for you. I recall reading some posts of yours and didn't remember them being so out there. Cool! Was confused, now I get it!

Thinking back to 5th edition, they made a distinction on vehicles between 'main' and 'defensive' weaponry right? IIRC, Strength 7 and up was considered 'main' armament. To me, this is likely the distinction they used to define a 'heavy' weapon for Tau infantry: power level. Remember the weapon is classed as 'Heavy' for firing purposes in this case due to its time to set up once in position, not 'heavy' as in tank-busting power. Given that even the most common infantry weapon is a low level threat to AV 10 vehicles at their considerable Strength 5, and the Rail Rifle as is, sits on a cool, AV 10 tank threatening Strength 6, they could consider that enough poewer, or 'heaviness', for Tau infantry. Remember the Tau are about teamwork! The Tau military could use this equipment philosophy to encourage that teamwork idea in its soldiers. Who by any other standard are some of the best equipped average dudes in the galaxy. It forces the infantry corps to rely on battlesuit and vehicle support for large threats, because they don't have the power to take those out. Your example of the Lascannon is a good point but then again, that's Space Marines. They are all down for the one man army thing and if there's a big power armor portable weapon to crack tanks open, fine, they support integrated high power weapons. Could the Tau build a man-portable Str 9 Ap 2 weapon? Abso-freaking-lutely. No argument there. Bet they have too, just for kicks. Would they give it to a foot soldier? No, its too much power for an unproven foot soldier. Once he proves worthy of that power, they stick him in a big armored suit and then give it to him. That soldier then deeply understands how much the infantry he or she used to be a part of need his new power, and the cycle of instilling teamwork is complete.

Interestingly, in Star Wars, the Empire did something similar to enforce in it's Tie-fighter pilots a desired sense of dependency: Tie-fighters can't land, no landing gear. Nor do they have a Lightspeed drive. The Imperial ships had hanging clamps in their hangars that would latch the fighter to the ceiling and allow the pilot to get out on to a gangway or cat walk. The Empire said essentially: "You can fight for us in this crappy tin can, and you had better keep the Star destroyer protected, because you have nowhere to go with out us!" It was like putting a leash on them. Nice guys, huh?

Back on point. Yes the Rail Rifle needs something. If it gets a boost in power it should be minimal however. To me its just fine as a super high powered anti-personnel rifle. I say just give it to them for free along with the target lock, max four to a pathfinder squad. Done deal. Let the rest of the army deal with enemy armor. That's what they're there for. Str 7? At that point I would start aiming them at even medium tanks and the inter-dependency of the army breaks down. See what I'm saying?

Edit: Wh-oah! three big posts went up while I was typing this! I'll catch up later. Could the forum please put a limit on the size of a quote btw? Personally can't stand "Quote.post"

 AnomanderRake wrote:

...You do know you can already get markerlights on Stealthsuits, Fire Warriors, drones for everyone with wargear access, Sky Rays, Tetras (if you're allowing Forge World units), and every model in a Pathfinder squad, right? Tau have plenty of Markerlights...

I perhaps worded that poorly. The issues with those choices, with the exception of the Tetra, is that they either can't bring enough markerlights to be an effective marker unit (Firewarriors, Stealth Suits), the costs for those markerlights are too high (Markerdrones, arguably Pathfinders), and are on unpopular choices (Sky Rays, Stealthsuits). While most of these can be addressed by rebalancing costs, I would still like to see more markerlight integration with the codex. For example, perhaps give Fire Warriors the ability for each model to take a markerlight for X PPM and give Pathfinders some other bonuses, or make the Markerlights on drones fire two shots or something.

It's not just access to markerlights that is the problem. Using them requires you fire one whole unit at a target before another unit can use that marker against it. This makes it seem rather silly since it really limits the use of the markerlights and makes units fire at targets they otherwise wouldn't just to give a unit that is supposed to fire at it a markerlight.

I really think Markerlights should be an upgrade that gives a squad a BS test. If passed then it gives a specific benefit for that squad. FW get +1BS, Suits get -2 to cover, Broadsides maybe reroll on to pen.

Sandinistato wrote:

What if rail rifles were accessable to FW squads as a S7 or S8 weapon with a 36 inch range? I think FWs could use some sort of special weapon to give them a little bit of teeth. And Pulse Carbines should be reworked as well.
Or what if Fire Warriors had the option of giving x warriors a man portable burst cannon?...on second though a lot more elaboration is needee because of how many things in the tau codex would need to be changed to properly explain their role.

Nope. The Tau don't believe in mixing heavy weapons in with basic warriors, that's why they have battle-suits hahaha. If they could, they would have by now.

Savageconvoy. That's what target locks are for in Firewarrior squads. Which are currently to expensive.

A lot of people are looking at how to update a 4th edition codex into a 6th edition codex. I don't think you're looking at it the right way. It needs to built with an idea in mind from the ground up.

FW don't take heavy weapons in 4th edition. I get that. However they are an expensive unit that is basically a gun with legs. They are known for nothing else than their 1 real weapon option. That needs to change. I suggest giving them the Heavy drone weapon teams as a detached unit. Maybe give Carbines the blind rule instead of pinning. FW will be useless unless they can be a legitimate threat. They don't pose one if you keep to the old mentalities.

Markerlights are the same thing. They don't work now. They shouldn't make up for Tau's shortcomings. They should be something that Tau get for basically free that make a unit devastating. The CSM boon table is a great example of that, though it's rewards can be staggering due to it's limited opportunities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Savageconvoy. That's what target locks are for in Firewarrior squads. Which are currently to expensive.

I agree that it's too expensive, but even if the price was lowered it still makes markerlights only marginally more effective due to low volume of markerlights on low BS units.

Also agreed savageconvoy. Low BS and small numbers of markers are lame. But when we consider that one single marker light hit can take a squad of firewarriors up to BS 4, or a hammerhead up to BS 5, etc. It becomes a little more apparent why they are not more prevalent. They multiply the value of any other unit exponentially. And I argue that they work rather well. Perhaps your right they should be better, but personally, I don't know if that's the case.

Yes the carbine should get blind. I would give them the option of firing at Assault 2 or choosing to instead have one guy fire at 18" range a Concussive, Blind, Pinning grenade. Obviously, that would need some severe balancing from that gross scale idea. It would be a little outrageous otherwise right?

KnuckleWolf wrote:
Also agreed savageconvoy. Low BS and small numbers of markers are lame. But when we consider that one single marker light hit can take a squad of firewarriors up to BS 4, or a hammerhead up to BS 5, etc. It becomes a little more apparent why they are not more prevalent. They multiply the value of any other unit exponentially. And I argue that they work rather well. Perhaps your right they should be better, but personally, I don't know if that's the case.

Yes the carbine should get blind. I would give them the option of firing at Assault 2 or choosing to instead have one guy fire at 18" range a Concussive, Blind, Pinning grenade. Obviously, that would need some severe balancing from that gross scale idea. It would be a little outrageous otherwise right?

I just figured that instead of taking a pinning check, the unit would take a blind check. So any 1 wound from a blind weapon would cause one check per phase.

And yeah, markers can increase a lot of units to BS5. Loaded out right you could very feasibly get BS5 across the board. Tetra squadrons with target locks and targetting arrays make this very possible. Personally I don't think they should be allowed to increase BS like they do. BS should be a set value that determines the units worth. Markerlights should be the bonus to make your unit more useful and specialized per unit. As I said, FW getting +1BS makes sense to me, giving them more hits won't make anything too excessive and no other effect really fits them except maybe improving the blind check. Crisis suits should get marker effects to reduce cover saves or re-roll wounds, since they are a dedicated lethal fire platform. These are just opinions though. I'm not good with making anything balanced.

In response to everything

The Skyray doesnt need to be fast attack it just need skyfire as well as allowing seeker missiles to have it. Since Tau lack blast weapons (excluding forgeworld), perhaps having the option to change the statline of a seeker missile to something else, for a small points cost. Also perhaps allowing Skyrays to have 'unlimited ammo' although that could be OP.

Sniper Drones might work in the elite slot but railrifles should not have sniper USR. Correct me if i'm wrong but i though that USR also meant wounding on 4+ so that would nerf the railrifle.

Firewarriors are fine other than a slight points decrease and updating wargear available. Plus 22 models in a unit. Most times that overkill and with tau you want to split fire where possible.

Stealth suits do need something to make them worth their points. Personally i feel that being able to choose any one weapon from the armory and decreasing the suit cost itself would help make them usable when compared to crisis suits.

Pathfinders just need a slight point decrease again (noticing a trend?) and that the devilfish is an option rather than being mandatory to take.

Markerlights should not hit flyers at BS-1. Skyfire rule is there for a reason. Markerlights should also not convey skyfire however if it was networked markerlights as its not easy to spam them. TL with markerlights would be amazing however necrons can do it better right now :( Markerlights could be useful if they were assault, perhaps even something the opposite to how salvo works.

Gear changes suggestions are good however flechette dischanger available to all suits would be OP in assault considering they go off before any hits are made in combat. And special issue become standard for the armory, well most of it anyways.

I agree that most, if not all FW products become standard for tau with some tinkering of rules/cost of course. Turrets/sensor towers however should be part of the fortifications section in the FOC.

Kroot are bad (which is an understatement) They need to be reworked or removed. Along with vespids.

Generally a points decrease would help most situations with tau at the moment. If i had my codex/rulebook to hand id add to the discussion with my own ideas ><

I would like to see unique technology, we have black sun filters, maybe we should make black sun generators with give the night fire effect to all units fireing at the unit with the generator.

Or they could just make the stealth generator available to more units?



There are some great ideas in this thread however some are pretty silly. A nice balanced codex would be nice. As much as the Ward treatment would be amazing to get, it would make Tau TFG for a while.

With Necrons getting Gauss and Tesla weapons as a standard, I think Tau deserve the TFG treatment.

So at a request I'll make a breakdown of all the changes i think they need to make to the Tau book. Ok, lets get things started.


First things first, marker lights: They should be different.
#1 I don't like the increase of BS, make the unit TL instead. (should balance the increased BS on suits)
#2 Fire seeker missiles (seeker missile from skyrays are infinite? But no more then 6 per turn.)
#3 Give opposing unit -1 to LD test that shooting phase max of -1 for turn so works for pinning and morale. (anyone would be scared with red dots on the forheads of all their buddies)
#4 removes nightfighting
#5 Max of -2 cover save
(Still not useable by Non-Tau unless markerlight is part of that non-tau unit)

HQs:

Suit Commanders: I think these guys should have options between taking stealthsuits, crisis suits and FW Hazard suits. (Which wil determine their weapon layouts, which I will discuss later) Take away the 1+ requirement, oldschool rules like that aren't needed in today's enviroment of variety in books.

No more dedicated bodyguard, but instead an honor guard unit with better options then the normal FOC version of the same suit.

Ethereal: Take away this high advantage high disadvantage type ability these guys have and give something a little more dependable and useful. EX. All Tau units within 12" and LOS can use the ethereal's LD for all tests. Price of Failure: Any Tau unit within LOS of Ethereal that fails it's morale/pinning (not in combat) test has it's Shas'ui downgraded to a standard member of the unit. Any equipment he had stays, but he uses the standard Tau unit's statline instead of his own. (Self-demotion on the field of battle. honorbound) The Ethereal is fearless and has a Power Staff. (yes Tau have weapons that are equivelant of powerweapons, but they are few and far between)

Kroot Shaper: A much needed HQ type. Rules that do things like modify the stat lines of kroot in various ways, changing their overall tactical use. Like a combat varient, a infiltration varient, and shooty varient.

Elites:
Crisis Suits: I guess at this point I can discuss my opinions on the various types of suits available in the book. First, I truely thing the weapons available to the different suits should be based on the combaqt role (Tau imo, are a very role dependant army, they tend not to make many units that are versatile. So we have 3 available type in the current Tau fluff (including FW units). I think the suits are based on the range of the weapons they use. They should overlap a little, but for the most part the weapons should be strictly for one type of unit. For example. I think the hardpoints are a oldshool method of dishing out gear to suits and should be deleted. point values need to be adjusted on suits to something a little lower as well) and all suits should be BS4.

Hazardsuits; These are suppose to be as close to a close combat unit as Tau get, thus they should have short range firepower and anti-closecombat abilities. Give them options for fusion cascades, burst cannons, flamers, plasmarifles and mutlishot pulse carbine.(don't know about pashed ion cannons Flechette dischargers, VRT(but lose their standard assault move), and shield/gun drones. Give them a high Initiative, and WS(ie WS4, where as the rest of the army for the most part will be WS3) krak grenades

Stealthsuits: First off, move to FA. These to me should be more of a midrange unit, that infilrates and seeks out to destroy key targets. They should keep the current suits stealth layout and statline (but with WS3 and I3. Every unit in the Tau book comes with a standard Shas'ui that buffs the unit to LD9. Weapon loadouts should be limited to Burst cannons and the mutlishot pulse carbine idea, with some bigger weapons as a 1/3 option, like puslerifles, fusion blaster and railferifles(I don't think railrifles themselves should have the sniper rule, but the sniper unit should have the rule when using them) This would make stealthsuits very useable and more of a midrange unit. Gun drone options only.WS3 I3

Crisis Suits are your mobile long range suit. Options should be changed to Missile Pods, TL Railrifles(with the sniper rule), smart missle systems, and burst cannons. With options for gun drones and marker drones(reducded cost marker drones). WS3 I3

Knarloc Riders: Yes...

Pathfinder: They should be moved here, given infilrate instead of scout and option for devilfish all together. Marker lights are assault weapons. pusle carbines to be talked about later, these changes should make them competitive with tetras is priced well. BS4?

Troops:
Fire Warriors: WS3 I3 with Shas'ui standard. Options for puslerifle(seems to me that this should be a salvo weapon) or pusle carbine(no mix or match) Pusle carbines cause blinding and allow the unit to shoot up to two EMP grenades(same as haywire) up to 12". options for gundrones or marker drones.Any firewarrior unit that moves in the shooting phase are allowed to shoot and run in the shooting phase(Fire and flee)

Kroot: Krootrifle = asasult increase to T4 give infilrate, move through cover and stealth. They need a pack leader, someone that increases them to LD8, but makes them fearless in CC while he's alive. frag grenades

Gundrone squads: yes these should be troops, with options to take heavy gun drones (this si where the sniper drones will be moved to) options for railrifles(with sniper) misslepods, burstcannons and plasmarifles.

Fast Attack:
Vespids: Spent a lot of time thinking about these and neuron blasters. I think they need a weapon change, I think these should have some sort of attack that works against LD values, maybe a 1/2 per squad flamer weapon that works agaisnt LD values and everyone else comes with 2x close combat weapons with a couple of options for some upgraded rending close combat weapons. increased save to 4+ and can no longer benefit from marker lights. Frag grenades.

Piranha: need a slight reduction in points and more weapon options(or just replace all together witht eh forgeworld one with a slight point decrease)

Stealthsuits: As above

Tetras:good as is

Barricuda: good as in new book just needs TA option

Remoras: no change needed

Kroot hound: squad with a knarloc rider leading them turn hounds into beasts and rider is cav

Heavy Support:
Broadsides: They are very good as , although I think they should get an option for Ion cannons.

Skyray: Skyfire rule, seeker missiles fired by it's own markerlights do not deplete it's seeker missile supply.

Sniper drones: deleted see gundrone squads (tau spotter guy can go in krootox squad)

Broadside: pretty good, need FW turrent upgrades (get rid of the ion canno, looks ugly anyways) railgun should get a lance rule, with a max of 3 hull points allowed, and if it fails to pen it stops.

Barricuda bomer varient: Need something like this with bombs instead of seeker missiles maybe a different gun then the ion cannon.

Krootox squad: maybe lead by fire warrior with markerlight platform(aka sniper spotter)

Transports:
Devilfish: Needs a point drop and an option for a missilepod/plasmarifle/railrifle(no sniper) fired by a Firewarrior poking out of the top.

XXXXX: Need another transport option.

Special Characters: Quick thoughts....
Aun'va: Big points drop, him and his honorguard can join units. Change price of failure to something similiar to my idea for ethereal but instead have the shas'ui commit suicide.

Farsight: no restrictions on Tau units, no non-tau units allowed, no allies allowed. Bonus changed to Crisis suit squad with BS5 and 2+ saves adn lots of options.

Shadowsun: Allow her to join units, even with drones. Allow LD use for all LD tests. Counts as stealthsuit on top of other special rules.

Submitted, editing with further comments.....

My only complaint is that burst cannons and smart missile systems shouldn't be suit options because I've always hated them.

burstcannons have a spot, but are outshined by the other options on the units that can currently take them. And SMS is a great option imo, just not enough unts can take it. and those that can pay a lot.