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If an inquisitor rolls a 12 with the Daemon Blade but is not already a Psyker lv 1, does it become a psyker lv 1 and if so does it get to choose random psychic abilities?

The inquisitor does become a level 1 psyker, that much is clear. What happens then is a bit murky however.

RAW the demonblade doesn't really give them a psychic power in and of itself other than the warp charge necessary for the activation of their new force weapon. I don't think it'd be unfair to also allow them to roll on a valid Psychic table of their choice at that point, but can't find rules precident either for or against.

They would be a Psyker ( Mastery Level 1) with a single Warp Charge with which to activate their Force Weapon.

It would also grant an power from the chart (hear me out before you grab the pitchforks).
You get a number of powers from the BRB equal to your Mastery Level (page number to follow when I grab my book, it's in the reference just before he charts themselves).
The FAQ states a single role only for lvl1 Inquisitors, nothing about lvl2. But fortunately he rulebook covers this situation for us.

Counter-argument:

GK FAQ wrote:An Inquisitor with Mastery Level 1 can exchange his psychic
power for a single roll on either the Divination, Pyromancy or
Telekinesis disciplines. Coteaz can generate two powers from
either the Divination, Pyromancy or Telekinesis disciplines (in
any combination) in place of those listed on his profile

Since the psyker in question has no psychic power he cannot exchange for a roll on one of the aforementioned disciplines. QED. (I hope I used that correctly, otherwise I'm going to appear to be an idiot).

Edit. I used QED incorrectly. I am an idiot.

That's assuming that exchanging is the only way to get a power.

If there's no set power (as in this case) they may generate one from known disaplines.

Page 418 is the number i was looking for. Relevent parts in "Number of Psychic Powers" and the first two paragraphs in "Generating Psychic Powers"

HIWPI, you can generate a power via the BRB. I think RAW are a little bit shaky.

I see a conflict (BRB allows you to roll, Codex FAQ requires you to exchange your power in order to roll). Since this results in a conflict, the Codex (or at least the FAQ anyways) wins out. Unfortunately I'm away from my BRB at the moment as I'm out of town, and cannot check the wording.

I'mm not saying you are wrong or right, just bringing up a possible counter-argument.

I see your point, but I'm not seing the FAQ saying this is the only way to role on the chart.
If you have a Codex power, the FAQ allows you to exchange it.
If you have no set power, the BRB allows you a roll on the chart.
I really see no conflict as the FAQ only comes into play if they have a set Codex power.

 grendel083 wrote:
I see your point, but I'm not seing the FAQ saying this is the only way to role on the chart.
If you have a Codex power, the FAQ allows you to exchange it.
If you have no set power, the BRB allows you a roll on the chart.
I really see no conflict as the FAQ only comes into play if they have a set Codex power.

That's not true.
He FAQ comes into play when there's an Inquisitor Mastery Level 1. He can trade his power for a roll if he wishes.
Said Inquisitor doesn't have a power to trade.

rigeld2 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
I see your point, but I'm not seing the FAQ saying this is the only way to role on the chart.
If you have a Codex power, the FAQ allows you to exchange it.
If you have no set power, the BRB allows you a roll on the chart.
I really see no conflict as the FAQ only comes into play if they have a set Codex power.

That's not true.
He FAQ comes into play when there's an Inquisitor Mastery Level 1. He can trade his power for a roll if he wishes.
Said Inquisitor doesn't have a power to trade.

Right, and as he has no set power to exchange he can generate one from the chart (as per page 418).

You're misusing that quote.

In some codexes, a Psyker will have a specific psychic power, or set of psychic powers - where this is the case, it will be clearly stated in the relevant codex. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

The codex specifies his power.

rigeld2 wrote:
You're misusing that quote.

In some codexes, a Psyker will have a specific psychic power, or set of psychic powers - where this is the case, it will be clearly stated in the relevant codex. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

The codex specifies his power.

And what power does a Daemon Blade specify?
It simply says one Mastery Level higher than normal (p56). No mention of a power.

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
You're misusing that quote.

In some codexes, a Psyker will have a specific psychic power, or set of psychic powers - where this is the case, it will be clearly stated in the relevant codex. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

The codex specifies his power.

And what power does a Daemon Blade specify?
It simply says one Mastery Level higher than normal. No mention of a power.

The BRB is clearly deferring to the codex. The codex doesn't specify a power. Therefore, no power is permitted.

rigeld2 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
You're misusing that quote.

In some codexes, a Psyker will have a specific psychic power, or set of psychic powers - where this is the case, it will be clearly stated in the relevant codex. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

The codex specifies his power.

And what power does a Daemon Blade specify?
It simply says one Mastery Level higher than normal. No mention of a power.

The BRB is clearly deferring to the codex. The codex doesn't specify a power. Therefore, no power is permitted.

That's at odds with the rule you just quoted.
"it will be clearly stated in the relevant codex." As you just said it isn't. There is no power stated. So in that case...
"Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him"

No, the codex clearly specified all allowed powers. The rule applies to how the codex works, not each individual psyker.
The FAQ also specifies the Inq ML1 Psykers can trade in their power.

rigeld2 wrote:
No, the codex clearly specified all allowed powers.

Can you point out where? At no point does it say what to do if given a Mastery Level but no power. Pre 6th I'd agree, no power would be gained. But now a power is given per Mastery level, with rules to cover if none are specified.

The rule applies to how the codex works, not each individual psyker.

The whole rule is about generating powers for individual Psykers. It's very much about individuals.

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
No, the codex clearly specified all allowed powers.

Can you point out where? At no point does it say what to do if given a Mastery Level but no power. Pre 6th I'd agree, no power would be gained. But now a power is given per Mastery level, with rules to cover if none are specified.

A power is not given per mastery level - the FAQ specifies how to handle Inqs with a mastery level.

The rule applies to how the codex works, not each individual psyker.

The whole rule is about generating powers for individual Psykers. It's very much about individuals.

The rule is for generating powers for individual Psykers. The reference to "codex" applies to the codex as a whole, not individual psyker entries.

rigeld2 wrote:
A power is not given per mastery level - the FAQ specifies how to handle Inqs with a mastery level.

Page 418 "Number of Psychic Powers"
As the Codex has not specified the number of powers that comes with the Mastery Level, then it is indeed one power per level.
The FAQ gives an option to Inquisitors with a Mastery Level. The option to exchange. This is generating a power, not exchanging one.

The codex as a whole specifies powers. Not specifying a power means there is no power permitted.

Since the codex as a whole specifies powers, it does not fall in to the "Otherwise" clause. Referencing the FAQ we know the Inquisitor in question cannot exchange a power.

Sorry, I'm really not getting where your "Codex as a whole" idea comes from.

In some codexes, a Psyker will have a specific psychic power, or set of psychic powers - where this is the case, it will be clearly stated in the relevant codex. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

I get what you're saying, that as the Codex has specific powers, then that's all you're entitled to.
But that's really not how I'm reading that rule. It refers to the individual Psykers "..a Psyker will have..", "..a Psyker generates..". That is not refering to the Codex as a whole, but an individual Psyker.
If it didn't refer to the individual I'd agree with you, you'd have something like:

In some codexes, a Psyker will have a specific psychic power, or set of psychic powers - where this is the case, it will be clearly stated in the relevant codex. Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him.

The problem with your quoting the core rules grendel, is you need to refer to the codex (or rather, the FAQ, which is a document of the codex) to determine what psychic disciplines are available to the Inquisitor, and the FAQ covers that by saying specifically that he must exchange powers for rolls.

You simply cannot use the rule you are quoting without referring to the FAQ entry which states powers are exchanged for rolls.

edit: Which is to say, for clarities sake, that he has no access to any psychic disciplines unless following that specific FAQ entry.

 Drunkspleen wrote:
The problem with your quoting the core rules grendel, is you need to refer to the codex (or rather, the FAQ, which is a document of the codex) to determine what psychic disciplines are available to the Inquisitor, and the FAQ covers that by saying specifically that he must exchange powers for rolls.

You simply cannot use the rule you are quoting without referring to the FAQ entry which states powers are exchanged for rolls.

edit: Which is to say, for clarities sake, that he has no access to any psychic disciplines unless following that specific FAQ entry.

Aye, I was aware. I actually considered that a seperate issue of "What disciplines are know to him".
I'll admit from a practical point of view that's where the hole is, as "known disciplines" aren't defined (obviously they are the ones mentioned in the FAQ, but that's not strict RAW).
I still maintain that it allows you a roll from known disciplines (which RAW we don't know [but are the ones mentioned in FAQ]).

Stay consistent please. You're asserting, RAW, that he's able to roll but you have no way to show what discipline.

I'm referring to codex as a whole because the rule starts with "In some codexes... "
That is obviously not referring to an individual, but an entire codex. So it's referring to how a codex works in general, not specific psyker entries.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some codexes have powers generated in a certain way - for those, you follow those rules. Otherwise, do other stuff.

The GK codex has powers generated in a certain way. The FAQ tells you how to get BRB powers. Simple having a mastery level isn't enough.

A related question:

The Inquisitor is given permission in the FAQ to 'exchange his power' for a roll on one of the Psychic tables.

Is there any specific indication of wether or not 'nothing' (or for that matter, some other unrelated power he may have) can be considered 'his power' in the OPs' scenario?

In other words, does your psychic have to have at least one power in order to exchange it and/or is there an explicitly defined rules note for the word 'power' as used in the above context?

You can't exchange something if you don't have it in the first place.

Sure you can, the concept of 'zero' has been around for a long, long time to deal with that type of eventuality.

To provide a simple example:

Scenario 1:
I have one apple. I want to give you all the apples currently in my possession in exchange for something else. Can I?

Scenario 2:
I have a 15 million apples. I want to give you all the apples currently in my possession in exchange for something else. Can I?

Scenario 3:
I have no apples. I want to give you all the apples currently in my possession in exchange for something else. Can I?

I believe the answer to all of the above is 'yes', lacking a specific rule which indicates what you are presuming. (that you cannot give away 'nothing').

Your apple scenario doesn't hold up because the wording in the FAQ is specific and singular, it's not some arbitrary "all powers possessed situation"

it's "can exchange his psychic power for a single roll" not having a psychic power in this instance means failing to meet the requirements needed to make the exchange.

Singular and arbitrary is it? well then, lets have a look:

Grey Knight FAQ: "An Inquisitor with Mastery Level 1 can exchange his psychic power for a single roll on either the Divination, Pyromancy or Telekinesis disciplines."

Does it specify which power it is referring to? no.

Does it indicate how many powers it is referring to? Debatable: The singular noun 'power' can just as easily mean 'all/any of his powers' as it does 'one of his powers'

 Neorealist wrote:
Sure you can, the concept of 'zero' has been around for a long, long time to deal with that type of eventuality.

To provide a simple example:

Scenario 1:
I have one apple. I want to give you all the apples currently in my possession in exchange for something else. Can I?

Scenario 2:
I have a 15 million apples. I want to give you all the apples currently in my possession in exchange for something else. Can I?

Scenario 3:
I have no apples. I want to give you all the apples currently in my possession in exchange for something else. Can I?

I believe the answer to all of the above is 'yes', lacking a specific rule which indicates what you are presuming. (that you cannot give away 'nothing').

Comparable example using your scenario:
Chaos Lord trades in his bolt pistol for a combi-plasma, and his CCW for the Burning Brand. This leaves him with no pistol and no CCW. Per your scenario he would then be able to exchange nothing for a powerfist and nothing for a Lightning Claw.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Neorealist wrote:
Singular and arbitrary is it? well then, lets have a look:

Grey Knight FAQ: "An Inquisitor with Mastery Level 1 can exchange his psychic power for a single roll on either the Divination, Pyromancy or Telekinesis disciplines."

Does it specify which power it is referring to? no.

Does it indicate how many powers it is referring to? Debatable: The singular noun 'power' can just as easily mean 'all/any of his powers' as it does 'one of his powers'

Except the rules only allow an Inquisitor to have a single power. He has a choice between two powers but only gets one. Since they can have A or B there is no specification as to which power it is referring to. There is also no need to indicate how many powers because with the exception of the Daemonblade, all Inquisitors with a Mastery Level know 1 and only 1 power. (Kyrmanov or whatever his name is the sole exception).

Or Tyranid Warriors with Lash Whips, Rending Claws, Dual Boneswords, Dual Scything Talons, and Devourers. Or Deathspitters if you feel like it. Or Shrikes with the same options.

Or replace Stinger Salvo twice with Cluster Spines on Tervigons... So you have 2 guns to use on the MC.