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Who would win in an urban terrain battle between Catachan Jungle Fighters and Death Korps of Krieg and why?
Who would win in a jungle battle and why?
Who would win in a hive battle and why?
Who would win in an open desert battle and why?
Who would win in a ice world battle and why?

Best 3 out of 5 wins-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My answers-
#1: Krieg because they could hold up and fire from hidden positions and use more artillery support.
#2: Catachans because they have jungle fighting experience
#3: Catachans because they would ambush and stuff, but it would be close.
#4: Krieg would use rough riders and the Catachans would be driven out. If the Catachans made a straight assault they might win.
#5: Krieg would win because the Catachans would freeze.

So I like Catachans more, but I'm going to have to give this one to Krieg. Lets see your answers.

We already have this debate. it all depends on situation as you described.
But I would also give it to Krieg anytime, they are goddamn Wehrmacht in space - and that is quite hardcore to itself.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
We already have this debate. it all depends on situation as you described.
But I would also give it to Krieg anytime, they are goddamn Wehrmacht in space - and that is quite hardcore to itself.

Correction, the Steel Legion is the Wehrmacht. Krieg are World War 1 Troops.

Oh hey look it's this thread again, lol.

In areas lending themselves to guerilla warfare (Especially the jungle), and if for some reason the Kriegers are not able to raze the jungle or whatever to the ground, the Catachans have an advantage, but I would favor Krieg more often than not.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
We already have this debate. it all depends on situation as you described.
But I would also give it to Krieg anytime, they are goddamn Wehrmacht in space - and that is quite hardcore to itself.

Correction, the Steel Legion is the Wehrmacht. Krieg are World War 1 Troops.

Steel Legion is also Wehrmacht - but World War II Panzergrenadiers.
Krieg is World War 1 German Empire ( Werchmacht) wit ha mix of French and Belgium uniforms. But they are mostly Germans.

Kreig would win all.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
We already have this debate. it all depends on situation as you described.
But I would also give it to Krieg anytime, they are goddamn Wehrmacht in space - and that is quite hardcore to itself.

Correction, the Steel Legion is the Wehrmacht. Krieg are World War 1 Troops.

My take on Armageddon is that they are France anno 1918, while Krieg is Germany anno 1916-17, and I'm far from alone in that view. GW for obvious PR-reasons would never commit to have Wehrmacht put in space. Of course you are free to have your own opinion, but for it make little sense due to the general disdain sane people have for Wehrmacht and Nazi-Germany.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for who would win, Krieg would in general, the Catachan isn't that good outside the jungles, and Krieg are experts in fighting long-drawn siege-battles.

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
Who would win in an urban terrain battle between Catachan Jungle Fighters and Death Korps of Krieg and why?
Who would win in a jungle battle and why?
Who would win in a hive battle and why?
Who would win in an open desert battle and why?
Who would win in a ice world battle and why?

Best 3 out of 5 wins-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My answers-
#1: Krieg because they could hold up and fire from hidden positions and use more artillery support.
#2: Catachans because they have jungle fighting experience
#3: Catachans because they would ambush and stuff, but it would be close.
#4: Krieg would use rough riders and the Catachans would be driven out. If the Catachans made a straight assault they might win.
#5: Krieg would win because the Catachans would freeze.

So I like Catachans more, but I'm going to have to give this one to Krieg. Lets see your answers.

Who would win in an urban terrain battle between Catachan Jungle Fighters and Death Korps of Krieg and why? This is more of a toss up but Ill give it to Krieg however Catachan would perform extremely well here. I could even see Catachan winning
Who would win in a jungle battle and why? Catachans, it is their special after all.
Who would win in a hive battle and why? Same as Urban
Who would win in an open desert battle and why? Krieg, the Catachans cant use their tactics properly but desert wont stop Krieg that much.
Who would win in a ice world battle and why? Krieg, the same reason for desert however this one is a closer one because of difficulty cutting into Snow/Ice


These would actually ALL be very close but I would put my money on Krieg however I can see Catachan winning

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
Who would win in an urban terrain battle between Catachan Jungle Fighters and Death Korps of Krieg and why?
Who would win in a jungle battle and why?
Who would win in a hive battle and why?
Who would win in an open desert battle and why?
Who would win in a ice world battle and why?

I might favor the DKoK alittle biut I way they would win on all of the senarios, they use the same tactics for all of them. flatten the area with arty then advance.

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
Who would win in an urban terrain battle between Catachan Jungle Fighters and Death Korps of Krieg and why?

#4: Krieg would use rough riders and the Catachans would be driven out. If the Catachans made a straight assault they might win.

And why wouldn't the Catachans have Rough Rider units of their own? If I recall correctly, they have some weird lizards things they use in place of horses. In addition, wouldn't the desert be ideal for hit and run tactics? I think the Catchans would have this one...they're used to smaller, faster moving ambush units, whereas Kreig and their weapon platforms and what not would get bogged down in the sand.

i say catachans would win the fight just becauses maybe in fluff does krieg have a chance of winning but i dont see then being larger because the only models games workshop produces are catachans and cadians where as you have to go to forge world for krieg. if death corps fought catachan i dont think krieg would have a chance catachan has alot of friends.

tonyneedspills23 wrote:
i say catachans would win the fight just becauses maybe in fluff does krieg have a chance of winning but i dont see then being larger because the only models games workshop produces are catachans and cadians where as you have to go to forge world for krieg. if death corps fought catachan i dont think krieg would have a chance catachan has alot of friends

This is actually pretty funny.
In-universe the Death Korps reproduce using either cloning or test tube babies. They have a lot of people to throw into a meat grinder.
Neither Catachan or Krieg has 'friends' as you put it.

thats cosmic im just saying isnt catachan the planet ogryns come from?
imo in the 41st mellenium it come down to who what planet the empire decides to bombard

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Krieg is World War 1 German Empire ( Werchmacht) wit ha mix of French and Belgium uniforms. But they are mostly Germans.

To answer the 'Who are the Death Korp representing?'; The Death Korp of Krieg uniform is mostly based upon French uniforms, with a dash of Belgian, German & British uniforms. Words relating to the DKoK are German-based, but in general the Death Korps of Krieg are inspired by all of the Western Front armies of 1914-1918.

If you want a breakdown of the various kit & where it comes from; greatcoat is the same pattern as that worn by French forces complete with the 'turned back' coat skirts. The helmet is a pickelhaube mixed with the 1916 stalhelm, with a flute inspired by the French 'Adrian helmet'. The puttee's are from the standard British uniform from the conflict and the Belgian influence? The coloured tabs on the collars that indicate the unit. The webbing appears to be inspired by the various webbing used by the different nations.

Their Lucius no98 pattern lasgun is based upon the designation for the standard German rifle of the Great War, the Gewehr 98.

The armour worn by the Death Korp is also inspired by both ceremonial & trench armour of the period; the cuirssases worn by the Command Squads are indicative of those worn for ceremonial purposes by much of the Household Cavalry regiments of Europe, while the Carapace armour is inspired by the different 'trench armours' used by different nations, although it's segmented nature indicates a lot of its design comes from the German trench armours.

As for the gasmasks used by both the Korpsmen & the Death Rider mounts, I'm not sure if they're derived from a particular nations gasmasks or just generally drawn from all of them, although the respirator unit on their chest indicates inspiration from the British gasmask bags which were carried over the chest for quick access.

And who would win between DKoK & Catachans? Well we've had this thread before but I'll just say I'd bet on the DKoK.

Thanks brother Sparks_Havealock, didn't know some of the kit where it came from.
But whenever I see Krieg solders they remind me just on WW1 Germans. Maybe it's just me.

Question 6: Does it matter? They're both specialized for their particular terrain and don't really get deployed to ice worlds or deserts, let alone together, which suggests that those two fights are implausible to the point of irrelevancy...

There's also the problem of the specifics of the terrain and the objectives; the Death Korps are a fairly immobile siege-warfare-focused force, where the Catachans are better at faster-paced fights and tend to be more subtle due to a significantly lighter reliance on artillery. If you want the bad guys out of a position but you'd prefer the buildings relatively intact in the shorter term, send in the Catachans; if you'd rather have a crater instead and don't mind spending a while bombarding it, send in the Death Korps. They're optimized for different situations and different enemies; I don't know that trying to have them fight each other on a variety of battlefields really proves anything.

 Kaiserbudheim wrote:

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
Who would win in an urban terrain battle between Catachan Jungle Fighters and Death Korps of Krieg and why?

#4: Krieg would use rough riders and the Catachans would be driven out. If the Catachans made a straight assault they might win.

And why wouldn't the Catachans have Rough Rider units of their own? If I recall correctly, they have some weird lizards things they use in place of horses. In addition, wouldn't the desert be ideal for hit and run tactics? I think the Catchans would have this one...they're used to smaller, faster moving ambush units, whereas Kreig and their weapon platforms and what not would get bogged down in the sand.

Its because Krieg actually has a specialized unit of Rough Riders. Catachans are rare to have Rough Riders, they CAN, but it is rare and their units would be lesser quality than a Krieg equivelent.


Desert is partially good for hit and run but only for fast moving light infantry. Horses are key here but mechanized transport helps out. (Have you ever tried running in sand?) So really the Sentinels would perform great here but thats really it.

Also desert doesnt bog down stuff that much because its soft sand. It has the potentional to be a nightmare for tanks but thats more for engine reliablity and things.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Thanks brother Sparks_Havealock, didn't know some of the kit where it came from.
But whenever I see Krieg solders they remind me just on WW1 Germans. Maybe it's just me.

Everyone thinks that, hell I did until I looked into where the different bits of equipment came from. It's the greatcoat, gasmask & helmet combo that does it & as they often appear in dark, drab greyish colours, and the Imperial German Army on the Western Front wore grey, our minds just make the connection, plus there's their Germanic names & references.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
the Death Korps are a fairly immobile siege-warfare-focused force

Not necessarily. Their Siege Regiments, for which the DK are mostly known for, do tend to focus more on either attritional trench warfare or closing the net on, and breaching & taking, enemy strongholds/cities/hives, but the DKoK consists of armoured regiments, infantry regiments & I imagine they have a few Death Rider regiments kicking about as well. They can be almost as mobile as any other part of the Imperial Guard & certainly the elements required to make them even more mobile (such as Valkyries) could be assigned to them to move the regiments around quickly.

Better question. A catachan and krieg soldier both enter a room with no special terrain and no weapons.

Who walks out?

Catachan hands down.

Making a competition with unrealistic factors is silly. Why would catachan be in an open desert landscape? That's just dumb and a huge waste of their jungle fighting skills.

I agree with most of what's said. Although I'd hand Catachans the hive fight. Given it strips the kriegers of their artillery and results in an up close personal fight where the physical superiority of Catachan troops along with the Plethora of flamers they commonly cart around are optimised.

I agree with giving the Catachan the urban/hive environ.

 Necroshea wrote:
Better question. A catachan and krieg soldier both enter a room with no special terrain and no weapons.

Who walks out?

Catachan hands down.

Making a competition with unrealistic factors is silly. Why would catachan be in an open desert landscape? That's just dumb and a huge waste of their jungle fighting skills.

Ya it would be pretty silly if Valhallans were deployled in the desert or anything that isnt an Ice World also.... oh wait a second that happens all the time in the fluff

Catachan forces have been deployed to the open desert several times like how units that have no jungle experience been deployed to jungle planets. Thats because the Imperium doesnt have time to say:
Offical 1 "oh look, a desert conflict is starting, and we dont have any Tallaran units in the area and the closest unit is several months away. I guess the poor PDF bastards just need to wait till than"
Offical 2 "Sir what about this regiment of Catachans which just finished combat operations only 3 days journey out"
Offical 1 "Dont be silly, they are jungle men, clearly the PDF simply has to hold the line by themselves for months until we can get some Tallarans there"


Or god forbid they are fighting on a planet like Earth.... you know a planet that has desert AND jungles AND cold weather...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eetion wrote:
I agree with most of what's said. Although I'd hand Catachans the hive fight. Given it strips the kriegers of their artillery and results in an up close personal fight where the physical superiority of Catachan troops along with the Plethora of flamers they commonly cart around are optimised.

Krieg also does a lot of close combat drills and rely heavily on flamethrowers however your point stands. Im honostly not certain who would win in a hive/urban battle (those 2 are pretty much the same thing afterall

 Galdos wrote:

 Necroshea wrote:
Better question. A catachan and krieg soldier both enter a room with no special terrain and no weapons.

Who walks out?

Catachan hands down.

Making a competition with unrealistic factors is silly. Why would catachan be in an open desert landscape? That's just dumb and a huge waste of their jungle fighting skills.

Ya it would be pretty silly if Valhallans were deployled in the desert or anything that isnt an Ice World also.... oh wait a second that happens all the time in the fluff

Catachan forces have been deployed to the open desert several times like how units that have no jungle experience been deployed to jungle planets. Thats because the Imperium doesnt have time to say:
Offical 1 "oh look, a desert conflict is starting, and we dont have any Tallaran units in the area and the closest unit is several months away. I guess the poor PDF bastards just need to wait till than"
Offical 2 "Sir what about this regiment of Catachans which just finished combat operations only 3 days journey out"
Offical 1 "Dont be silly, they are jungle men, clearly the PDF simply has to hold the line by themselves for months until we can get some Tallarans there"


Or god forbid they are fighting on a planet like Earth.... you know a planet that has desert AND jungles AND cold weather...

And? Point is in an environment where neither side has an advantage catachan have a much greater likelihood of success due to their upbringing and the shape it left them in.

 Eetion wrote:
I agree with most of what's said. Although I'd hand Catachans the hive fight. Given it strips the kriegers of their artillery and results in an up close personal fight where the physical superiority of Catachan troops along with the Plethora of flamers they commonly cart around are optimised.

Current evidence (Which admittedly isn't much) frankly gives Krieg the advantage in hand to hand combat, honestly.

 Necroshea wrote:
Better question. A catachan and krieg soldier both enter a room with no special terrain and no weapons.

Who walks out?

Catachan hands down.

Making a competition with unrealistic factors is silly. Why would catachan be in an open desert landscape? That's just dumb and a huge waste of their jungle fighting skills.

thank you i mean i just dont see krieg having a chance. just because krieg has a hi population and catachan has a low population doesnt mean that that the catachans have less forces i would say catachans outnumber krieg but some might say the opposite i just think catachans would destroy krieg

Just because Catachans are depicted as being 1980s bodybuilders-turned-action-film-actors doesn't mean they will win each time every time in a 1-1. The human body is not just a lump of muscle that you have to beat your way through to the person underneath it. A small, wiry man can beat a tall, thickly muscled opponent - all about speed & technique and hitting/manipulating the right place for maximum effect. A Korpsman spends his life training from a young age in preparation of being deployed with their regiment. This training will consist of everything that can be taught to them so that they're of best use to their beloved God-Emperor. I would subsequently bet that with the close-combat techniques taught to the Death Korp that they would be able to handle themselves against another human in hand-to-hand. With weapons they have an even greater chance because they're amongst the best, if not the best, bayonet fighters in the Imperium - if you don't think much of the bayonet I advise you to look up the company of 50 Sikh pioneers who, during the Abyssinian campaign of 1868, were charged by several thousand Ab warriors outside Magdala They beat them back at bayonet point without a single loss.

As far as the one-on-one with the Catachan goes - it's still either way, frankly, especially as people forget how strong & tough the Korpsmen have to be survive their training. Not to say the Catachans aren't as tough, or even more so, but the point is to not underestimate the Korpsmen of the Death Korp.

And? Point is in an environment where neither side has an advantage catachan have a much greater likelihood of success due to their upbringing and the shape it left them in.

Well my reply was to your post that its completely unreasonable to ever see the Catachan on anything but a jungle world which is just wrong. The point was that THAT part of your earlier post was incorrect.


The rest of it is fine. In fact if you put both in a bar without weapons like you said ya I probably would give it to a Catachan

I think the Kriegsman would place the Catachan's nose inside of his brain but hey.

 Sparks_Havelock wrote:
Just because Catachans are depicted as being 1980s bodybuilders-turned-action-film-actors doesn't mean they will win each time every time in a 1-1. The human body is not just a lump of muscle that you have to beat your way through to the person underneath it. A small, wiry man can beat a tall, thickly muscled opponent - all about speed & technique and hitting/manipulating the right place for maximum effect. A Korpsman spends his life training from a young age in preparation of being deployed with their regiment. This training will consist of everything that can be taught to them so that they're of best use to their beloved God-Emperor. I would subsequently bet that with the close-combat techniques taught to the Death Korp that they would be able to handle themselves against another human in hand-to-hand. With weapons they have an even greater chance because they're amongst the best, if not the best, bayonet fighters in the Imperium - if you don't think much of the bayonet I advise you to look up the company of 50 Sikh pioneers who, during the Abyssinian campaign of 1868, were charged by several thousand Ab warriors outside Magdala They beat them back at bayonet point without a single loss.

As far as the one-on-one with the Catachan goes - it's still either way, frankly, especially as people forget how strong & tough the Korpsmen have to be survive their training. Not to say the Catachans aren't as tough, or even more so, but the point is to not underestimate the Korpsmen of the Death Korp.

You know, after reading that, I might have to give it to the krieg...maybe. Only because catachan survive by being universally deadly, however Krieg are given extensive training (this is an assumption) on how to kill people. Not to say catachan aren't taught that, but I think catachan fighters have a bit more to worry about then just humans.

So yeah it would likely be a brute strength vs technique match.

In hand to hand, sure the Catachan man will have brute strength. But I don't know about you, but that doesn't win fights unless you are REALLY huge and can't be hurt from many punches. The Kreig soldier might be smaller (although, honestly, with their traning can't be that much weaker. You can just see the Catachan muscles because they like to not wear uniforms), but he has greater training is...well....everything that IS combat. They have the technique, and better technique wins TRUE fights. Maybe not a bar fight, but a true fight is won by the faster, and more skilled fighter.

So im giving H-t-H to the Kreiger.