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I was putting together my first Chimera when I wondered, do I need to put on all the components from it's wargear like the search light, and smoke launcher?

Do I actually need to put on the basic wargear, or is it assumed that it has it unless stated/listed?

Mainly I ask because my command chimera will look overloaded and odd if I have everything. Pin-tel mounted Storm bolter, com-relay, Guy sticking out with a bolt gun and a regimental flag (the guy/flag are just for looks) and personally I don't know where exactly to put the Smoke launcher yet, but I'll google it.

It depends on your group\venue that you are playing at. Most people don't care honestly.

I would personally suggest modeling the basic wargear on. Also, it is worth using 2 small magnets on the front
to attach\remove dozer blades.

Command tanks are overloaded. Typically 6-7 radio antennas on top of the "normal" stuff for a tank. It won't look odd, it'll look normal.

I'm only worried about the weapons on the vehicle truthfully, or oddball upgrades (Deffrolla)

WYSIWYG means exactly what it says on the tin. If your opponent can look at your vehicle and can see exactly what the vehicle has (within the confines of what can actually be physically represented) then your vehicle is WYSIWYG.


How closely you adhere to WYSIWYG though is down to the group you play with. There is no specific rule covering it, because WYSIWYG has always been more a matter of gaming convention than of rules.

I built all of my tanks before they came with a bunch of wargear they have now.

I'm not going to pry off the hatch of a vindicator to put a stormbolter one on when they could change it next edition.

Same thing with Search Lights (Though, the headlights would make fine searchlights, imo. ) and Smoke Launchers.

If it's an extra upgrade, yes, you need to model it.

Or atleast I feel that way.

 insaniak wrote:
There is no specific rule covering it, because WYSIWYG has always been more a matter of gaming convention than of rules.

Bar back in 3rd edition.

I wouldn't worry about modelling most basic wargear.

if someone does whine about it, just check all their models for the same thing. Does every single one of their marines for example have a pistol, frag and krak grenades AND a bolter modelled?

I personally would always model wargear weapons onto vehicles (storm bolters etc) btu smoke launcher and searchlights? pfft. I know it's there, you know it's there. it's never NOT going to be there becasue it is an inherent part of the vehicle.

 insaniak wrote:
WYSIWYG means exactly what it says on the tin. If your opponent can look at your vehicle and can see exactly what the vehicle has (within the confines of what can actually be physically represented) then your vehicle is WYSIWYG.


How closely you adhere to WYSIWYG though is down to the group you play with. There is no specific rule covering it, because WYSIWYG has always been more a matter of gaming convention than of rules.

I wholly agree with this.

There is no rule to cover it in the rulebook, so ultimately it comes down to what you and your friends are comfortable with using. I say that as long as it's distinguishable, it should be fine - but you really need to be asking your gaming group how they feel and not just take our word for it.

What it is generally played like is that mandatory stuff that cant be replaced are not required, anything else is.
So you don't NEED a wargear piece modeled if a unit MUST have one, but you do need it if its either an upgrade, or can be upgraded.

I think the question is about BASIC wargear that comes standard.

For instance, tactical marines have bolters, bolt pistols, krak and frag grenades. We all know they have them. How many models are Wysiwyg with regard to the pistol and grenades?

I think you want to have all UPGRADES on shown and anything that is swappable on there but if your tactical marines dont have their boltpistol or if your rhino doesnt have its smoke launchers I dont know if people will complain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:
What it is generally played like is that mandatory stuff that cant be replaced are not required, anything else is.
So you don't NEED a wargear piece modeled if a unit MUST have one, but you do need it if its either an upgrade, or can be upgraded.

how did I not read your post?

As a novice player i think you should show all upgrades the basic wargear however shouldn't really matter.

Thanks for all the replies guys!

Yep I agree with above. Basic Wargear (like grenades that come standard, Tac Marines with pistols AND bolters, etc) doesn't need to be modeled as badly as upgrades (like weapons. Grenades can still be ignored to me). Now, if you want to model all that stuff on it can look awesome but it's not needed

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
There is no specific rule covering it, because WYSIWYG has always been more a matter of gaming convention than of rules.

Bar back in 3rd edition.

No, even back in 3rd edition.

The rules have referred to WYSIWYG in greater or lesser detail at times over the editions... But in actual application, my statement stands. Regardless of what the rules do or don't (or did or didn't) say about it, WYSIWYG has always been a gaming convention intended to make the game easier to play, and how closely people adhere to it has always come down to individual preference, or the whims of the event organiser.

 insaniak wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
There is no specific rule covering it, because WYSIWYG has always been more a matter of gaming convention than of rules.

Bar back in 3rd edition.

No, even back in 3rd edition.

The rules have referred to WYSIWYG in greater or lesser detail at times over the editions... But in actual application, my statement stands. Regardless of what the rules do or don't (or did or didn't) say about it, WYSIWYG has always been a gaming convention intended to make the game easier to play, and how closely people adhere to it has always come down to individual preference, or the whims of the event organiser.

The Eldar codex has a WYSIWYG clause before the army list section. Indeed they are the only codex that per its own rules MUST be WYSIWYG.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
There is no specific rule covering it, because WYSIWYG has always been more a matter of gaming convention than of rules.

Bar back in 3rd edition.

No, even back in 3rd edition.

The rules have referred to WYSIWYG in greater or lesser detail at times over the editions... But in actual application, my statement stands. Regardless of what the rules do or don't (or did or didn't) say about it, WYSIWYG has always been a gaming convention intended to make the game easier to play, and how closely people adhere to it has always come down to individual preference, or the whims of the event organiser.

The Eldar codex has a WYSIWYG clause before the army list section. Indeed they are the only codex that per its own rules MUST be WYSIWYG.

Orks also require WYSIWYG. So does Black Templar. And Dark Angels. And Space Marines. And Tau. And I think that is it.

Moving away from the OP but sticking to the title, how many of us marine players model Bolter, boltpistol, frag and krak onto basic marines? I'm guessing most just model a bolter and call it assumed.

its not in the brb if they argue it alot just ask them to show you in the rulebook

 Bausk wrote:
Moving away from the OP but sticking to the title, how many of us marine players model Bolter, boltpistol, frag and krak onto basic marines? I'm guessing most just model a bolter and call it assumed.

I usually stick grenades and ammo pouches on my marines because it looks cool.

Since GW doesn't provide you with enough bolt pistols to be WYSIWYG on tactical marines I usually don't bother.

Everybody knows they have a pistol and grenades anyway.


So only upgrades need to be modeled.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Bausk wrote:
Moving away from the OP but sticking to the title, how many of us marine players model Bolter, boltpistol, frag and krak onto basic marines? I'm guessing most just model a bolter and call it assumed.

I usually stick grenades and ammo pouches on my marines because it looks cool.

Since GW doesn't provide you with enough bolt pistols to be WYSIWYG on tactical marines I usually don't bother.

Everybody knows they have a pistol and grenades anyway.


So only upgrades need to be modeled.

It would be a really cluttered model if you put on the pistol, two types of grenades and some pouches while holding the bolter. Thankfully most people have better sense than to demand that.
Personally I like to make GH with the bolter and chainsword to make it clear as day they are not blood claws.

Meh, a canteen, some pouches, a lasgun, grenades and a knife are great things to give to your guardsmen to customize them a bit. Binoculars for Watchmaster and every squad gets its vox caster.

I like my soldier well equipped, you're going to fight the worst horrors the galaxy can offer, you're not going to a picnic.

 Exergy wrote:
For instance, tactical marines have bolters, bolt pistols, krak and frag grenades. We all know they have them. How many models are Wysiwyg with regard to the pistol and grenades?

Mine will be when I finish updating them. My Space Wolves are all completely WYSIWYG (well, I don't have both grenades on every model, but they are scattered through the squads).

When every Marine Chapter went to battle with the exact same gear, it wasn't such a big deal. But these days, where some have pistols, and some have CCWs, and some just have bolters... I don't expect an opponent to be able to remember what my guys are carrying, particularly if they don't play Marines themselves.

Actually having many antenna makes the vehicle a bigger target. The use of multi antenna basicly phased out after WWII because it was like "hmmmmm, lots of antenna. He must be important. SHOOT HIM!"

The US Army has a device which multi hops multiple frequencies into 1 antenna. That means the vehicle fits in with all the others.

My command chimera has 1 antenna as do all my others. You cant tell where the command is.

 Guardsmen Bob wrote:

Mainly I ask because my command chimera will look overloaded and odd if I have everything.

Just like everything imperium ever.

 BoomWolf wrote:
What it is generally played like is that mandatory stuff that cant be replaced are not required, anything else is.
So you don't NEED a wargear piece modeled if a unit MUST have one, but you do need it if its either an upgrade, or can be upgraded.

What if it's something that can't practically be modeled, like blind grenades or digital weapons?

reaper with no name wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
What it is generally played like is that mandatory stuff that cant be replaced are not required, anything else is.
So you don't NEED a wargear piece modeled if a unit MUST have one, but you do need it if its either an upgrade, or can be upgraded.

What if it's something that can't practically be modeled, like blind grenades or digital weapons?

You cut off the finger, carefully peel off the plastic armour, model the Digital Weapons with GS, put back on the plastic armour, and stick it back on the model.

Anything else is cheating, obviously

Let's not forget WHY WYSIWYG exists. It is for easy differentiation of different models. Let's say that I have 10 marines, one armed with a plasma pistol, one with a flamer and one with a plasma gun. If they all were the same, no-one could tell them apart.

Stick a special pistol and two different weapons to the unit and now you can tell them apart.

If someone starts to whine that your assault marines don't have pistols on them (just two swords, because it's cool - or vice versa), their shame really.

Just make sure your opponent knows what they have you shouldn't have any problem. If you do, don't play them.

 kaapelikala wrote:
Let's not forget WHY WYSIWYG exists. It is for easy differentiation of different models.

I'd contest that the only times GW have ever included WYSIWYG in their rules have been cynical attempts to force players to buy more models. But then I was introduced to the rule by Necromunda; when I read that I'd have to cut off my freshly painted Leader's arm to model on a power glove or else buy a new model (not available separately back then, even from mail order, yes I phoned with parent + credit card standing by) I decided there and then to simply ignore that rule wherever I read it.

GW probably that. In Warmachine it's a very important part of the game, as it's very fast paced and thinking that are those riflemen riflemen or swordsmen takes a lot of time