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I matched the four Primarchs from HH:B up against 1.7k of my mate's Tyranids, and they all won. It got me thinking about reviving a project I long ago started but did not finish.

I was hoping that I could receive feedback on some ideas I have for homebrew Primarch rules. Now like the HH:B book, I want to be as close to their fluff as possible. Specifically, their pre-Heresy fluff - which means Fulgrim will not have a Laeren Blade in his arsenal (he will be compensated, don't worry). Following this are some ideas I had for the Primarchs:

Lion El'Jonson - Dark Angels
- has the "Monster Hunter" USR because he had exceptional skill at hunting the monsters in Caliban's forest area
- has the "Acute Senses" USR because he is "the lion" after all, and cats do have acute senses themselves
- "Lion Helm" will function as it does for Azrael in CA (if it changes in the upcoming 6E book, then this will change to match)
- "Lion Blade" will be a Master-Crafted Paragon Blade with the "Strikedown" USR
- will have a specific Warlord Trait (Strategic Genius? Coordinated Assault?)

Fulgrim - Emperor's Children
- unchanged from his HH:B, save for...
- ...the Laer Blade being replaced with an as-of-yet unnamed "Master-Crafted Paragon Blade"

Perturabo - Iron Warriors
- will have the "Tank Hunter" and "Siege Wrecker" USRs for his attacks (ranged and melee)
- will NOT carry the hammer weapon, which I believe is post-Heresy
- will have two gauntlet weapons, one with an integrated Heavy Flamer and the other a Multi-Melta, both will count as Power Fists in melee

Leman Russ - Space Wolves
- will be WS9 like Angron
- "Mjalnar" might be a +2 Strength Paragon Blade or AP2 Power Weapon (without Murderous Strike or modified Strength)
- Freki and Geri will be attached to him from the moment of deployment, but will count-as destroyed when Russ is slain, their melee attacks will have Rending
- he will have the Wolf Helm and Belt of Russ wargear from C:SW
- will likely have "Furious Charge" and possibly the ability to confer it to nearby Space Wolves units
- will have "Witch Spite" like Mortarion does, since Russ despises psychic powers

Konrad Curze - Night Lords
- will have a rule similar to Mortarion's "Shadow of the Reaper", which increases the power of the Fear USR
- will have a pair of "Master-Crafted Lightning Claws" that possess the "Murderous Strike" USR (in addition to Shred)
- will have a rule to possibly avoid enemy attacks (he could sense the future apparently)

Sanguinius - Blood Angels
- would have the same statline as Horus does
- would count-as Jump Infantry due to his wings
- his sword weapon (Blade Encarmine??) would be a Paragon Blade
- he would have the "Hatred (Daemons)" USR, or "Preferred Enemy (Daemons)" (whichever would be the superior USR)
- would have a rule that would infect all Blood Angels in play with Red Thirst AND Black Rage upon being slain
- would have a "gift of prescience" type rule (he could also see the future)

Ferrus Mannus - Iron Hands
- would have the hammer given to him by Fulgrim, it would be something like "S10 AP1 Concussion Armourbane Unwieldy"
- his metal hands would be Power Fists, and he would have a rule like Horus to divide his Attacks between these and his hammer (Forgebreaker??)
- possibly have the same Toughness as Mortarion (can it be justified?)
- due to his love for bionics he should probably have Feel No Pain and the ability to re-roll failed attempts

Magnus - Thousand Sons
- would be classified as "Extremely Bulky"
- could have a rule that allows Thousand Sons units to use his Leadership for psychic tests, even if Magnus is not part of the unit itself ("Brotherhood of Psykers" with a global range)
- could have a rule that allows him to choose all powers from one of the five disciplines
- due to his control of the Warp (or so he thinks, according to fluff), he could have a rule that allows him to re-roll failed Psyker tests, or a rule that works like an Eldar "Ghosthelm" (avoid PotW on D6 roll of 3+)

Lorgar - Word Bearers
- would have slightly lower stats than many Primarchs, but still be better than a Praetor/Chapter Master (I don't recall Lorgar being much of a fighter)
- "Illuminarum" would be an AP2 Power Maul with Concussion or Strikedown
- he would have one or more rules to bolster the potential of his Word Bearers, and would also have a fixed Warlord Trait - "Inspiring Presence"

Corax - Raven Guard
- Initiative 7
- pair of Master-Crafted Lightning Claws with Shred and Rending
- despite not being a Flyer vehicle, he could "Vector Strike" over an enemy unit and inflict similar damage; I've read that his Jump Pack was equipped with metal wings that sliced enemies apart (they did in "The First Heretic")
- would possess various rules focused on striking fast and sneaking around (Hit and Run? Infiltrate? the ability to assault after Deep Striking?)

Any help with this would be appreciated. To see how me friends' armies fair against these legends of the 30K era would be quite the spectacle!

I'm not sure which is harder: balancing out their rules, or converting models and bitz to make them!

PS: homebrew for the Emperor will happen, but not yet. His sons first, then him!

Hahaha it's no real surprise 4 Primarchs beat about 2000 points of Nids. They ARE supposed to be awesome

I like the brainstorming here. Lots of great ideas for them that don't seem to overly strong or unbeatable (which is easy to get when we're talking about the sons of the Emprah after all), without knowing the stats themselves however (I don't actually have the book on me yet. I read my friends copy and have been debating if I should get it or not). I'd be interested in seeing what others who have the book say though, but the special rules isolated by themselves doesn't seem too bad.

Stats wise I was thinking of the following for each of the Primarchs (excluding the ones from HH:B). They follow the order of WS BS S T W I A LD SV

Lion El'Jonson: ws8 bs5 s6 t5 w5 i6 a5 ld10 sv2+
Perturabo: ws7 bs5 s7 t6 w5 i5 a5 ld10 sv2+
Jaghatai Khan: ws7 bs5 s6 t6 w5 i6 a5 ld10 sv2+
Leman Russ: ws9 bs5 s7 t6 w5 i6 a6 ld10 sv2+
Rogal Dorn: ws7 bs5 s6 t6 w5 i6 a5 ld10 sv2+
Konrad Curze: ws7 bs5 s7 t6 w5 i6 a6 ld10 sv2+
Sanguinius: ws8 bs5 s7 t6 w6 i6 a5 ld10 sv2+ (<--I read some that he was on-par with Horus, confirmed?)
Guilliman: ws7 bs5 s6 t6 w5 i6 a5 ld10 sv2+
Magnus: ws7 bs9 s6 t6 w6 i6 a5 ld10 sv2+
Lorgar: ws6 bs5 s5 t5 w5 i6 a4 ld10 sv2+ (<--as I said in my OP, I don't think he was much of a warrior, but still stronger than your average Marine)
Vulkan: ws8 bs5 s6 t6 w5 i5 a5 ld10 sv2+
Corax: ws7 bs5 s6 t6 w5 i7 a5 ld10 sv2+
Alpharius(/Omegon?): ws7 bs5 s6 t6 w5 i6 a5 ld10 sv2+

Stats look pretty good from a quick glance. I will get a good write-up later, but im sick today so I don't feel like a full analyzation haha

Only thing I can say is that I see WS7 as a base for majority of them. Can I suggest bumping The Lion up for WS8? I have read that he is supposed to be a very very very good swordsman compared to the rest of the Primarchs

valkun should have i4 as his home world has very high g so he moves a lot slower as he is more cumborsem bs higher as he has created all sorts of relics (the nine artifacts so he would train more to be able to hit somthing he most probaly used the eye of valkun abit or no balistic skill as he only has a flamer
strenth and toghness higher as he come from a deth world were you have to be strong and tough to servive



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signarus should have a lower ws as he was beat up in cc by horus and the big e was with him





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this is rules you should do one primach then he next

recomend the ones that survived the heresy are a smig better


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something for rogle dorn rule

bolster defenses

inspiring presence

primach

hatred chaos

army wide stubborn

tda

fist of dorn

something that gives a 3++

dorn's bloter
24 ap 5 s4 a 6

can have a thunder fire cannon to take up no slots

land raider

Update for some:

[Lion El'Jonson]
- his 2+ armour save has re-roll ability
- in challenges, he gains Preferred Enemy against his challenger, but NOT if he initiated the challenge himself
- he can seize the Initiative on a roll of 4+

[Perturabo]
- his armour will be 2+ and 4++, against Barrage and Ordnance damage the latter becomes 3++
- his gauntlets are a pair of Power Fists and can be used as either a Heavy Flamer or Multi-Melta during shooting

[Jaghatai Khan] <--ideas atm
- he seems to have rode a Jetbike back in the day, and it didn't look like the Scimitar pattern from FW, if it had a point at its front, then its possible to give him something like the "Vector Strike" rule, or a brief increase to his Initiative when he successfully charges

Apologies for the double-post, but this update requires a bump.

I've uploaded a .PDF of my work so far. Only the first four Primarchs are featured (Lion, Fulgrim, Perturabo, and Khan), but the rest will follow.

Fulgrim has changed very-little from his HH:B entry.

Some help for valkun

Master atificer
All wepons are 2 link army wide

Hold the line
All termies and devestaors are troops

From fire
No flame wepons hert him

Lord of 9
If all 9 artifacts are used he gets
A choice of some rule

Ew

Ob

Inspireing presance

Wepons

Amour of promethus maste crafted tda
Digatl wepons
Guantlet of the forge
Spear of valkun
Kasres mantle
Song of entrophy
Some wargear
Obsian chariot
A storm bird with 4 flame stoms 2link mm inferno cannon when droping down to send out valkun it has a extra flame storm cannon
Engin of wose
Is a land raider promethus whit cramite planting and a turret mounted inferno cannon

Ferrus didn't like Bionics, on the contrary he thought they were destroying his legion and swore to root them out after the Great Crusade.

wargey wrote:
Some help for valkun

Master atificer
All wepons are 2 link army wide

Hold the line
All termies and devestaors are troops

From fire
No flame wepons hert him

Lord of 9
If all 9 artifacts are used he gets
A choice of some rule

Ew

Ob

Inspireing presance

Wepons

Amour of promethus maste crafted tda
Digatl wepons
Guantlet of the forge
Spear of valkun
Kasres mantle
Song of entrophy
Some wargear
Obsian chariot
A storm bird with 4 flame stoms 2link mm inferno cannon when droping down to send out valkun it has a extra flame storm cannon
Engin of wose
Is a land raider promethus whit cramite planting and a turret mounted inferno cannon

Wait.....no flamer weapons hurt him, he automatically twin-links EVERY weapon in the army, and he gets a choice of a rule if "all 9 artifacts are taken"? Well....pretty severe, but we are talking a primarch here....would like some stats and points
Oh, and I read over the PDF. I actually really like the rules overall, gonna ask my friend if we can run some games with these guys and see how it turns out. Will post about how it went

EDIT: Shadowclaimer, are you sure Ferrus didn't like bionics? I understand he had them himself and preached to the natives of Medusa about the greatness of technology. I could be wrong however...

Lorgar is definitely a fighter if you read Aurelian or Betrayer. He kicks ass and takes names. He beat the freaking Lord of Bloodthirsters in a martial battle. His statline is too low for a Primarch.

Sallies are ment to be imune to fire so valkun has no damege from fire
You will have to pay for the big ones
And sallies have to maintain there owne gear and have the bestist wepons in the inperum so master craft evry thing insted
You don't no much about sallies do you
Roubust slow well armed well amourd basicly

wargey wrote:
Sallies are ment to be imune to fire so valkun has no damege from fire
You will have to pay for the big ones
And sallies have to maintain there owne gear and have the bestist wepons in the inperum so master craft evry thing insted
You don't no much about sallies do you
Roubust slow well armed well amourd basicly

I....still, no need to make them really powerful over the other Primarchs. He has to have SOME sort of downside....

Fluff doesn't equal good rules. They may be immune to fire (im gonna have to trust you here), but making every unit in their army immune to fire weapons makes a pretty strong rule and isn't a good one at that without balance. Fluff is irrelevant when it comes to balance. The Imperial Fists are really really defensive minded, should they be able to take fortifications for free if Dorn is taken? Making all the weapons master-crafted (NOT twin-linked! So many people get them confused. Master-Crafter re-rolls one's, Twin-Linked re-rolls all misses) does make sense fluff wise, and isn't too strong, so that can stay.

Since we are talking about the Primarchs not the legions, I understand Vulkan was known to be a very patient and "caring" man (in comparison to the other Primarchs, he cared about the people a bit more and sought to reduce civilian and native casualties). Not sure how to represent that. However, I also understand Vulkan fought very little in the Heresy. I know he was at Isstvan V Massacre with Ferrus and Corax but.....from what I have read, there is little record about what he fought in (not his Legion, him as a person)

PS: Bestist?

No primarch is less than t6 with exceptions to alpharius or omegon, ferrus and vulkan are the toughest primarchs, peturabo is now added to this list along with mortarion, lorgar should have access to the entire telekinesis law from brb, as the is now part of his fluff ( betrayer) and peturabo had his hammer from the outset of the war, not after.

Just a few suggestions and clarifications for you

I've uploaded an updated PDF document.

All Primarchs up to and including Konrad Curze have been added. As always, I've tried to get as close to their fluff as possible, and balance their statlines accordingly.

Brief insight:
- Perturabo is a vehicle's/building's worst nightmare
- Curze is the bane of any/all models with lower-than-average Leadership
- Khan goes "zoom-zoom-zoom"
- Dorn makes allied buildings last longer

Comments and opinions are welcome. Play-test feedback would also be greatly appreciated!

Let's see, going through your PDF...

Any fluff reason for the Lion's armor save to be rerollable? That's really powerful and I'd like to hear your justification for it, as I can't really think of any.

I think Armourbane may be a bit overpowered to give to units with Perturabo. I'd suggest keeping Tank Hunters on there, and swapping out Armourbane for the 5th Ed Tank Hunters, where you add +1 Strength when attacking vehicles.

Bump the Khan's Toughness up by one for his bike, that's just a pretty standard thing. Also I noticed you didn't actually explicitly give him Skilled Rider, just the other squads, so throw that one in. And you seem to have described Eldar Jetbikes as described in the rulebook in your rules for white Lightning, so to make it less complex maybe just say he is treated as an Eldar Jetbike.

I would probably make Freki and Geri an option that Russ has to pay for, and have them be appropriately expensive. Otherwise he's going to be even more absurdly expensive than the other Primarchs, coming with two monstrous creatures, essentially. Also drop the Berserk Charge, unless you also plan on giving it to Angron. I figure if Angron didn't get something like that in HH:B, no Primarch should.

Curze should probably have a 3+ armor save, simply because there's precedent for that with Angron and I can't think of a reason for him not to. And I think it's a little harsh to remove his invul entirely, maybe have it drop to a 4++ or 5++ when he fails. He is still a Primarch, he should have some invul. Change the wording of his Infiltrate rule to "outside of 12 inches." Within 12 inches would mean he can't be more than 12 in away when he infiltrates. Terror Sight: again, why can he reroll failed saves? I've never seen anything talk about him having exceptional armor. It was described in one short story and it seemed pretty ordinary.

Make him Very Bulky. Not really sure what the justification is for Dorn's invul increasing in cc, he's not a particularly combat-focused Primarch. Make sure to specify that Dorn's Arrow can benefit from his Bolter Drill if that's what you intended, as of now he can't. The re-rolling pens on structures is a little confusingly worded. I'm assuming you meant that to work the same as like a Venerable Dreadnought? Do you mean for him to allow a Fortification's AV to go above 14? Because all of the ones that can be taken that have an AV are 14. Also maybe allow him to unlock an extra Fortification slot to be taken.

Otherwise, it all seems good! Really cool project, and I appreciate all the effort going into this.

As for what others were saying about Lorgar, if you're going for pre-Heresy (not during-Heresy), then Lorgar is not much of a fighter at all, he despises combat. His S and T, however, should probably match up with the rest, as he's physically pretty much the same, just a lower WS maybe, and not many combat-focused special rules (more support-y). Although you've got a while before you reach him, so yeah.

Curze had the ability of foresight, hence why "Terror Sight" is so-worded.

Dorn cannot have a building exceed AV14 - I'll edit this in later.

With Perturabo I could just have Armourbane for his Power Fists ONLY, instead of both shooting and melee. Or remove Armourbane entirely and give it to Ferrus Manus.

Sanguinius will be up next. He will be quite powerful, let me tell you!

Ah yeah, that makes Terror Sight make sense. I think it works a lot better with him having a 3+ though, a rerollable 2+ will never be failed.

That makes sense for Perturabo, essentially give him chainfists. Armourbane on missile launchers and lascannons would just be a bit too much.

Look forward to going over the others once they're out. I'd come up with some ideas, but it's 2:30 in the morning and I'm not feeling very creative .

PM me your ideas then bro. At the very least I will take a look at them and, maybe, integrate a number of them if they are suitable.

Uploaded another update. This fixes some general spelling and grammar errors in many of their entries: Perturabo now has chainfists for melee, Khan's toughness is bumped up due to his bike which itself is now an Eldar Jetbike (counts-as one, it isn't actually of xenos origin), Curze's wargear has been adjusted. These are but a few of the fixes and changes I made.

Sanguinius has been added, but as you'll see his entry is far from complete. Fluff I've read has indicated that he did use the "Spear of Telesto", and that is very-powerful archeotech - appropriate for "The Angel" then.

About Lorgar: he will be designed with lower combat potential, but his other stats will still match most of his brother Primarchs. I have read "The First Heretic", and the Custodian Vendatha (?) knew that although he was able to kill a number of Word Bearers in mere seconds, taking on a Primarch would be far riskier. His Weapon Skill and Attacks will be the lowest of his stats. As suggested, his role will be more geared towards support than actual fighting.

Can you also post the rules stats and warger on the fourm as well as downloads

Sorry if I misunderstood, but are these pre or during heresy, as if they're during heresy there are a fair few mistakes on equipment and abilities, dont get me wrong the stats are fine by and large, just a few mistakes I'm chalking up to not having read all the books?

NeoAigaion wrote:
Now like the HH:B book, I want to be as close to their fluff as possible. Specifically, their pre-Heresy fluff - which means Fulgrim will not have a Laeren Blade in his arsenal (he will be compensated, don't worry)

I'm sorry but I don't think Russ's WS should be the same and definitely not higher than sanguinius's

Russ as good or better than sang haha, no just no, the fluff categorically states the sang was the best cc primarch, even horus was afraid of him, and the newer books state this again when lorgar goes through so much trouble to make sure the traitors have an answer to sang, one is horus the other is daemon angron, now I say this with no bias, im a lion fanboy.

Now is Russ a better brawler.. Hell yes to that, a better fighter, certainly not.

We all should know by now that x primarch is good at y thing, it's rock paper scissors, Russ should be a powerhouse I agree, but should also be represented as a good general ( not lion or guiliman good, but good), if we use dorn as an example of a well round primarch, good at alot of things and specialises in a certain area, then Russ should be slightly above that, joint 3rd or 4th in terms of cc power ( behind horus and sang, but joint with angron) and again joint 3rd or 4th as a general. ( behind lion and guiliman/horus) then we can get a general idea on where each should lie in the pecking order, remember what made Russ so dangerous washes legion and there willingness to get the job done.

Magnus isn't here...no proxy battle between my Blood ravens and 1k sons. That would be awesome to have a Gabriel Angelos vs Magnus challenge, and see Magnus splatter Gabe w/ mind bullets.

Magnus will be present in the document in due time, don't worry . Needless to say he will have extremely-powerful psychic talents.

I'm debating whether to give Lorgar a few powers. He always did have psychic potential, but he never used it until the heresy. They wouldn't be too strong - just ones like Crush and Assail.

Vulkan will not be immune to Melta and Flamer weapons like the Eldar Avatar. He will have a rule similar to how Mortarion resists Poisoned weapons and the like - only a to-wound roll of 6 will work. They can still work on him but there's little chance to do so.

EDIT: New version of the homebrew pdf has been uploaded. Sanguinius and Ferrus Manus now have entries.
- Sanguinius gets angry when any of his sons are killed, likewise ALL Blood Angels on the battlefield get angry when their Primarch is killed
- Ferrus Manus might be as difficult to kill as Mortarion
- Allies don't work so well with the Iron Hands Primarch as the force's Warlord

Next up will be Angron (merely a copy of the FW rules), Guilliman (lots of tactical prowess will be featured), and Mortarion (also a copy of the FW rules).


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This is just a minor update. Angron and the others are still coming, just not quite yet.

I gave the document a front-page, and adjusted a few entries:

- Konrad Curze's "Talons of Terror" now inflict a Leadership penalty to a unit if it's leading model (usually the one with the Character type) is slain by Curze.
- As per a suggestion by a fellow poster, Sanguinius can choose to move as a FMC during a turn, but cannot shoot or assault until the player's following turn.
- Leman Russ' WS has been decreased to 7, however he still has his brute physical strength.
- Ferrus Manus "Living Metal Hands" ignore Armour saves and force successful Invulnerable saves to be re-rolled, he can also divide his attacks between his hands and his "Forgebreaker" (similar stats to Horus' "World Breaker" weapon).

Sounds good remember a lot had pesonal body gaurd like feruss manus had the morlocks teromnators the sallies still have the prye gaurd manus best mate had the pheonix gaurd

Put the body gaurd for the leigon in the primach or sire rules

HH:B set the precedent for those being separate unit entries, as they can still be used without the Primarchs.

I reiterate, Ferrus did not like the bionics that his brethren took. He thought they were corrupting his chapter and that they were being way over-zealous with them.

"They are not my hands. This fact is forgotten by my brothers -- inexplicably, it has always seemed to me. The hands are strong, to be sure, and have created great things for us all, but they are not mine. And that counts for something. They forget that the silver on my arms comes from a beast that I vanquished. It is the mark of a great evil that I ended, and yet it persists within me... I would struggle to remove it now... I will not remove the silver from my flesh because I have learned to depend on it. The fault is with my mind. I rely on the augmentation given to me by my metal gauntlets, so much so that the flesh beneath them is now little more than a distant memory... A day will come when I will strip it from me, lest I lose the power to master myself forever. Already my Legion's warriors replace their shield hands with metal in my honour, and so they too are learning to doubt the natural strength of their bodies. They must be weaned off this practice before it becomes a mania for them. Hatred of what is natural, of what is human, is the first and greatest of the corruptions. So I record it here: when the time comes, I will strip my hands of their unnatural silver. I will instruct my Legion to recant their distrust of the flesh. I will turn then away from the gifts of the machine and bid them relearn the mysteries of flesh, bone and blood. When my father's Crusade is over, this shall be my sacred task. When the fighting is done, I shall cure my Legion and myself. For if fighting is all there is, if we may never pause to reflect on what such devotion to strength is doing to us, then our compulsion will only grow."

—The Neimerel Scrolls attributed to the Primarch Ferrus Manus

Need to find the OS.

Trust me if the primach anit there the primachs body gaurd anit