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How well does a Pedro Kantor/Sternguard spam list work? Since Kantor makes them scoring, and Sterns are pretty nice, I think it could work. My only concern would be the lack of bodies on the table; veterans are ~75% more expensive than tactical marines. Personally I might replace all the bolters in maybe one of the squads with meltas (combis consistently fail me) and stick them all in a plasback. Thoughts?

Keep the bolters. The special ammo it worth its weight in gold. You take the combi weapon just for the option to frag a tank. I always take melta on my sternguard.

They work very well, and their delivery system should be drop pods.

Drop Pods ensure you arrive at 100% strength, which, as you pointed out, is an concern. You can combat squad after Drop Podding now, so mixing up the weapons is perfectly viable.

Sternguard are one of the few Marine units that actually delivers firepower. Tactical marines may be cheaper, but they just don't kill things, and killing things is the name of the game now. Don't let yourself get suckered into objective camping.

You can only replace 2 bolters per squad with heavy speical weapons.

I have been running a kantor/vulkan list for the past few games and it is a mean list to look at, 30 sternguard plus 20 marines all in pods, but it is a mutual annihliation list. Good thing is most people focus on the sternguard (attacks each on charge while within 12inch range of Pedro isnt bad) plus their special ammo and special weapons make them quite juicy targets. Means my tac marines are free to get objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
They work very well, and their delivery system should be drop pods.

Drop Pods ensure you arrive at 100% strength, which, as you pointed out, is an concern. You can combat squad after Drop Podding now, so mixing up the weapons is perfectly viable.

Sternguard are one of the few Marine units that actually delivers firepower. Tactical marines may be cheaper, but they just don't kill things, and killing things is the name of the game now. Don't let yourself get suckered into objective camping.

From what I read, it is combat squadding (even in pods) during deployment phase.

Wow, thanks for the quick feedback guys! Markymark, what point value was the list you were playing? Also, the FAQs don't have anything regarding Kantor's "Hold The Line!" special rule, which states that "Your Sternguard Veterans are scoring units." Therefore, would an allied detatchment's Sternguards be scoring as well? EDIT: You actually DO choose to combat squad after leaving a pod, it is in the combat squads rule section of C:SM.

ted234521 wrote:
Wow, thanks for the quick feedback guys! Markymark, what point value was the list you were playing? Also, the FAQs don't have anything regarding Kantor's "Hold The Line!" special rule, which states that "Your Sternguard Veterans are scoring units." Therefore, would an allied detatchment's Sternguards be scoring as well? EDIT: You actually DO choose to combat squad after leaving a pod, it is in the combat squads rule section of C:SM.

One would assume. Blood Angels Libby with Divination -> Prescience, Pedro with a squad, and Lysander with a third squad?

Probably too expensive. Nasty though.

ted234521 wrote:
Wow, thanks for the quick feedback guys! Markymark, what point value was the list you were playing? Also, the FAQs don't have anything regarding Kantor's "Hold The Line!" special rule, which states that "Your Sternguard Veterans are scoring units." Therefore, would an allied detatchment's Sternguards be scoring as well? EDIT: You actually DO choose to combat squad after leaving a pod, it is in the combat squads rule section of C:SM.

I assume so, they are still sternguard after all, iirc it doesnt state only sternguard from C:SM are scoring. I am playing with a 1850 pts list.

Yep, divination would be mean, but that would only really matter that much with the plasma sternguard ( I have 7 combi flamer, 2 heavy flamer, 7 combi meltas, 2 metla guns and 7 combi plasma 2 plasma guns), the meltas and flamers are twinlinked (matters for the flamers) because of vulkan. Personaly a space marine libby with null zone would be a lot better but can only have 2 HQ's :(

About combat squadding, heres the FAQ that is a little unclear..

You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads,
and which models go into each combat squad, immediately
before deployment. A unit split into combat squads therefore is
now two separate units for all game purposes including
calculating the total number of units in the army, and the
number of units you can place in reserve. Then proceed with
deployment as normal. Note that two combat squads split from
the same unit can embark in the same transport vehicle,
providing its transport capacity allows.

Granted, the reserve bits is rendered irrelvant by the units being in drop pods but still it leans towards combat squadding in the deployment 'phase'. Cant see anything in the codex to say they can be combat squadded when the pods are deployed?. I did play it as combat squadding when the pods are deployed until I saw that in the FAQ and now not so sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MadmanMSU wrote:

ted234521 wrote:
Wow, thanks for the quick feedback guys! Markymark, what point value was the list you were playing? Also, the FAQs don't have anything regarding Kantor's "Hold The Line!" special rule, which states that "Your Sternguard Veterans are scoring units." Therefore, would an allied detatchment's Sternguards be scoring as well? EDIT: You actually DO choose to combat squad after leaving a pod, it is in the combat squads rule section of C:SM.

One would assume. Blood Angels Libby with Divination -> Prescience, Pedro with a squad, and Lysander with a third squad?

Probably too expensive. Nasty though.

Plus Prescience is done at the beginning of the movement phase, before the pods are deployed IMO

MarkyMark C:SM states this: "Both combat squads may be deployed to separate locations. The one exception to this is a unit that arrives by Drop Pod.The player can choose to split such a unit into combat squads when it disembarks from the Drop Pod." (Codex: Space Marines, pg. 51) I would probably be running this kind of list in 1500; I always prepare for 1500 first and then higher point limits so I'm ready for tournaments. (For some reason it seems like 9/10 of the tournaments I go to are 1500) But yeah, pods sound good. I'd probably run the sterns with 10 men, 2 meltaguns and a pod.

I've been experimenting with a Kantor Drop Pod Hybrid list, and I've been so impressed with its performance that I'm actually making it my main list. It has 20 Sternguard, each unit of 10 with 4 Combi Meltas (1 of them on the Sarge) and 3 Combi Flamers. I'll explain further down why those numbers.

Getting the alpha strike and killing your opponent's scariest unit(s) before he's able to do anything is such a strong move in the general meta. In my local meta, there's a lot of players that are adapting gunline armies and hiding behind Aegis walls. Drop Pods allow me to close the distance immediately and light up the juicy infantry with Hellfire Rounds.

I'm not doing 5 combi weapons because it's overkill. I haven't had a need of 5 combi weapons.

The reason why I call my list Hybrid is because I don't go all in on the Drop Pods. Instead I adopt a pincer effect strategy with a Land Raider Crusader stuffed with 8 TH/SS. I present to my opponent a major decision: Either he kills my Sternguard to allow my Land Raider to zoom up uncontested, or he shoots at my Land Raider with whatever anti-tank was left alive, most likely anti-tank that won't reliably destroy the Land Raider in a single turn, and allows my Sternguard to continue to run around freely. The strategy has worked extremely well so far.

At first I was so scared of losing Combat Tactics. However, with Kantor's bubble plus Stubborn, I'm not scared of being in combat. I no longer suck in combat! It's an amazing feeling.

Here's the current version of the list that I'm using (in a spoiler tag to prevent "wall of text effect"):

I did have a list with two 10 man sternguards (10 melta, 10 plasma) libby with null zone (perfect for drop pods as its cast in the shooting phase) tac squad in pod, 2 tac squads and 2 thunderfires and 6 hyperios, think that was 1850, it was ok but it left the sternguard quite unsupported when playing long ways (both times it was terrain heavy). Wasnt a bad list though alpha striking two tervigons first turn was very nice....

My list at the moment is

Pedro
Vulkan

10 Sternguard, 7 combi flamers, 2 heavy flamers, sarg with BP Power axe (Vulkan goes here) in drop pod

10 Sternguard 7 combi melta 2 melta guns sarg with BP Power Sword drop pod

10 Sternguard 7 combi plasma, 2 plasma guns sarg with BP power axe (Pedro goes here) drop pod

10 tac marines, MM (twin linked goodness) plasma gun sarg with BP CCW drop pod

10 tac marines MM PG Sarg BP CCW drop pod.

Thats 30 sternguard in the first turn if I want them all down that would be most death star units dead (flamers to pile the wounds on, then plasmas then meltas if needed, meltas usually combat squad and go after AV

why do you run vulkan and pedro..? did they FAQ that two chapter tactics work together now..?

Combat squadding for drop pod units occurs when they come on the board. Check the rules for drop pod in the sm codex.

Thunderwolf39 wrote:
Combat squadding for drop pod units occurs when they come on the board. Check the rules for drop pod in the sm codex.

Read the Errata it says:

Gamesworkshop wrote:
You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads,
and which models go into each combat squad, immediately
before deployment...

It doesn't say anything about drop pods.

Thunderwolf39 wrote:
Combat squadding for drop pod units occurs when they come on the board. Check the rules for drop pod in the sm codex.

-marky mark already cleared this up -

You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads,
and which models go into each combat squad, immediately
before deployment. A unit split into combat squads therefore is
now two separate units for all game purposes including
calculating the total number of units in the army, and the
number of units you can place in reserve. Then proceed with
deployment as normal. Note that two combat squads split from
the same unit can embark in the same transport vehicle,
providing its transport capacity allows.

Pedro makes them troop picks, and vulken gives them mastercrafter weapons.

Pretty sure "hold the line" is a sub rule for his chapter tactics. I.E. you would still need to use his chapter tactics for the sternguard to be scoring.

Regarding Sternguard heavy lists they are solid but I'd recommend a balanced approach to the list wtih no more than 20 Sternguard.

 g0atsticks wrote:

Pedro makes them troop picks, and vulken gives them mastercrafter weapons.

Pedro makes them scoring, not troops. You still have to take two tac or scout squads.

Tactical squads in pods don't exactly suck either. Just leave the heavy weapons at home. Or snap fire them. Or whatever. Have them come in after the turn 1 blitz to claim stuff.

 g0atsticks wrote:

Pedro makes them troop picks, and vulken gives them mastercrafter weapons.

1. Pedro does not make Sternguard Troops choices, he makes sternguard scoring. This is a big difference, as you still have to take a minimum of two troops choices, and you can only take up to 3 sternguard squads per FOC.

2. This doesn't work, since Pedro's Chapter tactics states that it gives all units stubborn and gives Sternguard Units 'Hold the Line', which makes them scoring. So you can't take Pedro to make your Sternguard Scoring then have Vulkan make all flamers/meltas/thuderhammers master crafted. It is one or the other.

Is hold the line actually a chapter tactic? I mean it has its own rule doesn't it? IMO I'd rather have more sterns instead of Vulkan, but I thought that Pedro/Vulkan's rules didn't conflict.

Hold the Line is part of Kantor's Chapter Tactics. pg 90 of the C:SM codex.

SCORING IS WHAT I MEANT SHEEPLE. thanks.

 AresX8 wrote:
Hold the Line is part of Kantor's Chapter Tactics. pg 90 of the C:SM codex.

Its a debatable one at that, yes it does mention it in his chapter tactics, but it also has a seperate entry for Hold the line as one of his special rules it says in his chapter tactics that blah blah and your sternguard vets also gain hold the line.

If it is just when using his chapter tactics, why not put it wholly under his chapter tactics, why have another entry under his special rules for it?

I have been using a 10 man Sternguard with Combi-Plasmas and two Plasma Guns and it has been working great for me.

The reason I have to two Plasma Guns is later on in the game when I need them.

MarkyMark wrote:

 AresX8 wrote:
Hold the Line is part of Kantor's Chapter Tactics. pg 90 of the C:SM codex.

Its a debatable one at that, yes it does mention it in his chapter tactics, but it also has a seperate entry for Hold the line as one of his special rules it says in his chapter tactics that blah blah and your sternguard vets also gain hold the line.

If it is just when using his chapter tactics, why not put it wholly under his chapter tactics, why have another entry under his special rules for it?

It's not a unit special rule though. Else it would be under his special rules in his unit entry in the army list. It's a subrule of the the primary rule, chapter tactics. Once the first criteria is met the second comes into play.

 Hulksmash wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

 AresX8 wrote:
Hold the Line is part of Kantor's Chapter Tactics. pg 90 of the C:SM codex.

Its a debatable one at that, yes it does mention it in his chapter tactics, but it also has a seperate entry for Hold the line as one of his special rules it says in his chapter tactics that blah blah and your sternguard vets also gain hold the line.

If it is just when using his chapter tactics, why not put it wholly under his chapter tactics, why have another entry under his special rules for it?

It's not a unit special rule though. Else it would be under his special rules in his unit entry in the army list. It's a subrule of the the primary rule, chapter tactics. Once the first criteria is met the second comes into play.

Just having it as a seperate entry doesnt make it that clear but granted I never thought to check the army list. It is in bold under his special rule like all the other special characters in the codex, GW should have made that more clear!

Vulkan and Pedro unfortunately do not work together..

spartiatis wrote:
Vulkan and Pedro unfortunately do not work together..

Well, yes they do. Any Codex Space Marine army can take both of them and benefit from some of their rules.

Perhaps you meant you can't use both of their Chapter Tactics, which is their only conflicting rules.

Of course, what is the point of spendind 365 pts on HQ's if you can not use both rules..

Thats what I am now thinking, dropping vulkan I could get in another tac squad or a maxed up libby

Libbys FTW, definitely the best HQ for its points.