Model behaviour as Warlord Games company expands to USA

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**BrookM**

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/Model-behaviour-Warlord-Games-company-expands-USA/story-17829527-detail/story.html

A GROUP of people made redundant from city firm Games Workshop are now enjoying huge success with a new company they set up.

Warlord Games was founded by John Stallard and Paul Sawyer five years ago – and is based in the Lenton Business Centre, just one mile from their old employers.

Their success has been so great that they have now set up a new office in Arizona, USA, to oversee distribution.

Meanwhile they have joined forces with another new company – Dark Space Corp – to develop a new tabletop war game called The Gates of Antares.

Mr Stallard said: "We have been doing very well. We now have 22 members of staff who all worked for Games Workshop.

"The US office opening is a very exciting development. We have two guys who were based over there who are running that office and overseeing distribution of the products.

"We hope in the next five years we can continue to grow, and have 90 staff and more distribution centres across the world."

Warlord is similar to Games Workshop in that it produces model soldiers which people use to play war games, though Mr Stallard says its historical figures set it apart from his former employers.

Models include Romans, English Civil War and Second World War figures.

In producing the new game, they have enlisted the help of Rick Priestley, who created Games Workshop's hugely successful games Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000.

They are looking to raise £300,000 by the end of February through the Kickstarter funding programme, which allows people across the world to pledge money online towards a project. So far, they have raised £77,000.

Mr Priestley said: "Producing the new game is very exciting. It is a science fiction tabletop game.

"We hope to have it finished and ready for launch by December this year.

"I worked with Games Workshop for 28 years, going from shop-floor worker to board director. The company grew in size, and is now a huge local employer.

"But I'm glad to be where I am now. We are not sure how the game will work out, but we are very hopeful it will be a success."

The company sends the models to shops in more than 50 countries, including USA, Germany, France and Russia.

**Sidstyler**

...OH IT'S A PUN.

**Mattman154**

"Morning Bill"
"Morning Bob"
"Anything new today?"
"Nope"
*Nine hours of silence.

**GBDarkAngel**

If they were so successful then banks and investors would be falling over themselves to lend the money.

They are going to use £300k of everyone elses money to ensure they remain in employment for a year or two on nice salaries and then GW will take them over / rescue them and release the new range of minis that you all paid for.

**xxvaderxx**

GBDarkAngel wrote:
If they were so successful then banks and investors would be falling over themselves to lend the money.

They are going to use £300k of everyone elses money to ensure they remain in employment for a year or two on nice salaries and then GW will take them over / rescue them and release the new range of minis that you all paid for.

Yeah it could not possibly be because through croud funding they dont have to pay it back, could it?

**BrookM**

GBDarkAngel wrote:
then GW will take them over / rescue them and release the new range of minis that you all paid for.

Please stop huffing that paint, it's makes you sound stupid.

**blood reaper**

GBDarkAngel wrote:
If they were so successful then banks and investors would be falling over themselves to lend the money.

They are going to use £300k of everyone elses money to ensure they remain in employment for a year or two on nice salaries and then GW will take them over / rescue them and release the new range of minis that you all paid for.

Ether you can't accept model companies other than GW, or are just really ignorant of how the world and money works.

**Sean_OBrien**

xxvaderxx wrote:
GBDarkAngel wrote:
If they were so successful then banks and investors would be falling over themselves to lend the money.

They are going to use £300k of everyone elses money to ensure they remain in employment for a year or two on nice salaries and then GW will take them over / rescue them and release the new range of minis that you all paid for.

Yeah it could not possibly be because through croud funding they dont have to pay it back, could it?

Nah - that's ridiculous. It would make far more business sense to take out a large loan from a bank or attempt to seek venture capital with the financing charges and long term hassles of being tied into an investment company. Why on Earth would they choose to utilize a crowd funding project which would both provide the initial capital investment as well as allow them to organize early adopters to help grow the system faster.

**Enigwolf**

Sean_OBrien wrote:
xxvaderxx wrote:
GBDarkAngel wrote:
If they were so successful then banks and investors would be falling over themselves to lend the money.

They are going to use £300k of everyone elses money to ensure they remain in employment for a year or two on nice salaries and then GW will take them over / rescue them and release the new range of minis that you all paid for.

Yeah it could not possibly be because through croud funding they dont have to pay it back, could it?

Nah - that's ridiculous. It would make far more business sense to take out a large loan from a bank or attempt to seek venture capital with the financing charges and long term hassles of being tied into an investment company. Why on Earth would they choose to utilize a crowd funding project which would both provide the initial capital investment as well as allow them to organize early adopters to help grow the system faster.

LOL, the troll-fu is strong in this one.

In any case, I saw the Kickstarter for this, and considering that they hadn't anything save much in the way of tests and sketches to show versus actual product, I was a little hesitant. I like the idea that players can contribute to advancing the storyline, though. It lends a little bit more depth of interaction and a feeling of having a stake in it.

**GBDarkAngel**

Im not trolling anyone or anything.
I am merely reading between the lines of the OP post.

1st Line -Huge Success
3rd Line - Success so Great.
7th Line - Hope to continue growth (takes capital)

I would be more impressed if they gave us some figures as to what % of the 300k will be used to develop and implement and % of everything else. (Pie chart breakdown would be nice).

If their success really has been "so great" or "so huge" then they would not need kickstart.

I do not play 40k so its of no interest to me but I personally think you guys that are contributing should be asking more questions than you are or appear to be asking.

The salaries for the staff over the next year or two are going to be circa 22 x 25k average (I would hope its more) and I would doubt very much that the historical side can prop that up to that tune.

Also Darkspace Corporation Ltd (I assume this is the new company they have joined forces with ) only came into the world in November 2012.
Their director is one George Richard Alexander.
(At this point I will note that if this is not the same company and director then I will offer my apologies however its the only company called Darkspace Corporation that I could find).

I like most people when investing in Kickstarts look up the basic info on the companies and directors.
If I like what I see then I will throw in a few quid if I dont I wont.

http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/910815088

**wilycoyote**

Of course you will be aware that Warlord games have achieved what must be considered a great deal of success in their product line for 28mm historical wargaming. Hail Caesar, Bolt Action and Black Powder are well supported products and in turn WG give a customer service that others can only envy. Along the way they have formed partnerships with smaller firms such as Victoria miniatures and indeed have shown that like the Perry twins you do not have to be GW.

The new project is a venture back into the fickle world of SFiction that will inevitably put them up against GW and 40k. At the moment crowd funding is getting a lot of popular support and if done correctly immediately gains you a interested fanbase, rather than starting from scratch. So would seem to make sense, after all it is only another form of venture capital.

Fanticide the last Priestley release is a fine game, so I will watch this one with interest.

I would think it might be GW who are looking over their shoulder given their latest price hikes and the finecast debacle that has eroded their customer base even more.

As always only thoughts about playing with toy soldiers.

**GBDarkAngel**

@Wilycoyote

You make some very good points however to say GW should be looking over their shoulder is I think somewhat wishful thinking.

In theory Mantic should be doing great due to the things you point out but as far as I know they are not making a dent in GW market share.

These guys also seem to be basing their new tabletop game on the GW 40k Model and will be going up against it.
A new system versus a well known system.

At best it might force GW to have a look at pricing however I doubt the new company or system will be much cheaper.

**Lanrak**

Hi GBDarkAngel.
If Mantic, PP,BF, CB, UM, PM, WG, et all are growing and expanding.

And GW plc has lost sales volumes for the last 8 years in a row.(Lost over 50% of sales volume since 2005)

I would say GWs competition as a whole IS making a dent in GW market share.

But GW dont seem to care as long as their are enough demented, er I mean devoted fans to pay what ever price GW dreams up.

I am WG are doing well.And its nice to see the 'old guard' back together making good things for gamers.

**snurl**

As I read my Bolt Aciton rulebook I noticed how familiar the rules felt. Preistley and Cavatore wrote up a tight set of rules using concepts that are similar, yet different than their former master's product. The quality of their publications and models is first rate. If they continue to offer a quality product at a fair price they will bring GW to it's knees within a few years.

**ExNoctemNacimur**

AND cheap miniatures!

**agustin**

22+ people laid off by GW have gainful employment doing what they love.

GW has laid off an awful lot of people that have very good skill sets for the miniature wargaming market. And with each price hike making margins more attractive, more and more competition is going to be entering the market and a lot of those ex-GW types are going to find homes at places like Warlord Games.

It's a good thing. More variety, people having employment opportunities.

And all it takes is GW continuing to raise it's prices to make room for more competition. And I think we can rely on them to do that.

**Enigwolf**

agustin wrote:
22+ people laid off by GW have gainful employment doing what they love.

GW has laid off an awful lot of people that have very good skill sets for the miniature wargaming market. And with each price hike making margins more attractive, more and more competition is going to be entering the market and a lot of those ex-GW types are going to find homes at places like Warlord Games.

It's a good thing. More variety, people having employment opportunities.

And all it takes is GW continuing to raise it's prices to make room for more competition. And I think we can rely on them to do that.

Although if you think from it from a corporate point of view, there has to be a reason for why they each was laid off - one of which might be that their work was not up to par with their colleagues', which might thus result in the fact that bringing them together might produce a subpar product than what the existing people at GW put out.

Just a theory that I'm devil's advocating, of course, not a point of view that I am supporting. I am all for more competition for GW.

**Sean_OBrien**

Enigwolf wrote:
agustin wrote:
22+ people laid off by GW have gainful employment doing what they love.

GW has laid off an awful lot of people that have very good skill sets for the miniature wargaming market. And with each price hike making margins more attractive, more and more competition is going to be entering the market and a lot of those ex-GW types are going to find homes at places like Warlord Games.

It's a good thing. More variety, people having employment opportunities.

And all it takes is GW continuing to raise it's prices to make room for more competition. And I think we can rely on them to do that.

Although if you think from it from a corporate point of view, there has to be a reason for why they each was laid off - one of which might be that their work was not up to par with their colleagues', which might thus result in the fact that bringing them together might produce a subpar product than what the existing people at GW put out. Just a theory that I'm devil's advocating, of course, not a point of view that I am supporting. I am all for more competition for GW.

They don't actually specify that any of them were laid off by GW - just that they used to work for them. The closest indication is that they say "A GROUP of people made redundant from city firm Games Workshop" which would probably indicate that a few were laid off - though quite often when someone is made "redundant" they are bought out as opposed to specifically fired (granted a lot of that will depend on specifically what you did and your arrangement with the company).

Sculptors are made redundant when they become too talented to be a line sculptor and are able to do lead work (without an opening for another lead). Creative types in general loose their use once their creative project is completed. I would guess more than one person who worked on the LotR games lost their jobs simply because the project was complete and they didn't have any other work for them.

Management is often made redundant because of organizational changes. If the company (or governmental regulations) has a policy relating to seniority and retainment - you may be forced to loose a more qualified person or keep both on and eat the extra salary. In many of those cases, one or the other person often ends up quitting on their own as there generally isn't enough productive work for both people.

Writers may want more money or just are not in favor of the direction which is being pushed by management. As a result, they may be laid off in favor of someone who will work for peanuts and not attempt to rock the boat.

**GreySkull**

The market is absolutely saturated with games large and small. I certainly hope they have success in the market, but with so many games out there they'd have to do something that will set them apart in a major way. 40k, Warmachine, and Warlord (Reaper Miniatures FTW!) caught me because they have a range of minis that are awesome saucesome and have excellent systems of play. They'll have to do something radically different to not end up looking like some bad derivitive like the Space Rangers (I have a set I bought on ebay...ugh!)

I tend to eye the Kickstarter Program with caution as I don't want my money to be taken and see nothing for it. I'm pretty sure a lot of you feel the same way and 300K British Sterling is a ton of cash.

I wish them lots of luck

**Polonius**

It's been my experience that lay offs and redundencies, at any level, have little to do with competency and work performance. Usually, those selected for removal are picked because they are in a branch/division taht is being closed or merged. After that, it tends to go with seniority or rank (lower being first laid off).

Any time you are selecting people at a fine enough level to actually look at work performance/qualifications, you are also close enough for personality, petty feuds, and the sheer arbitrary hand of fate to also kick in.

It's certainly possible for a really crappy employee to be laid off. It's also very possible for a really crappy employee to have tons of seniority and friends in managment. So, YMMV.

Now, don't get me wrong.. I'm not afraid of Kickstarter, but I need more than a name and a vague idea before I jump in.

**GBDarkAngel**

I think the global economy is the reason for the lay offs.

As for Warlord Games. Its great to see a small firm trying to take on the big boys.
I personally feel there is just too many ex GW hands in that particular pie.
I can honestly see this in a year or so magically becoming part of GW.

As a point of note I asked a lot of questions on the Website of the New table top game and to their credit they left the post for 5 minutes before deleting it.
Now I would have thought if you were looking for peoples money the last thing you would do is delete posts asking for more info.

**BrookM**

Hahaha, really now? Warlord Games is made up of quite a few ex-GW who used to do an awful lot for the now shut-down Warhammer Historicals. GW doesn't want Warlord and the chaps at Warlord do NOT want to see their passions ruined by their former employer.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does this mean that Mantic will also "magically" be owned by GW sooner or later, seeing as a fair chunk of Mantic is also from GW and also has its office in Nottingham? Eh?

**blood reaper**

BrookM wrote:
Hahaha, really now? Warlord Games is made up of quite a few ex-GW who used to do an awful lot for the now shut-down Warhammer Historicals. GW doesn't want Warlord and the chaps at Warlord do NOT want to see their passions ruined by their former employer.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does this mean that Mantic will also "magically" be owned by GW sooner or later, seeing as a fair chunk of Mantic is also from GW and also has its office in Nottingham? Eh?

Yes, because (insert illogical argument here).

**redbristles**

I have this lovely little vision in my head that in 5-10 years, Warlord Games will become the new "old GW" that so many people (myself included) loved so much. WIth the amount of key ex-GW staff they seem to be employing and recruiting for writing etc it seems like only a matter of time. ALl the best to them.

**wilycoyote**

To follow on from my last post, it is only logical that a lot of the firms challenging GW are led by their former employees. For years GW had the opportunity to attract the best in design both for rules and sculpting. These people no longer appear to want to churn out the new dark Angels (version 6 or whatever) and have moved on.

Again, it would be fair to say economics may have led to the focusing on the cash cows of 40k and Fantasy, but sadly this alienated a lot of others who liked WH Historical and their specialist games, amongst these were some of the same "hobby minded people who now lead the opposition.

Warlord has a feeling of passion about their product as does Mantic - albeit by going plastic, fantasy/scifi they are inevitably going to be compared to GW - look at Dreadball a great game in its own right but hampered by the comparison to Blood Bowl.

Over the years I put a fair investment into GW only to see systems I played and bought into heavily, simply discarded so that they could sell shiny toys to the new generation. That is why I am enjoying the renaissance of the smaller guys with enthusiasm and the discomfort of GW.

The thing that has really changed and will have GW scared more than anything else, is the growing quality of the other plastic/restic models out there at very reasonable prices - the Perry stuff is amazing at their price point. Now if someone came up with a Flames of War type scifi game backed up by quality plastic 15mm figures and models, that could be the end of GW unless they make an effort to reconnect with their fan base instead of that same fan base's wallet.

**BrookM**

redbristles wrote:
I have this lovely little vision in my head that in 5-10 years, Warlord Games will become the new "old GW" that so many people (myself included) loved so much. WIth the amount of key ex-GW staff they seem to be employing and recruiting for writing etc it seems like only a matter of time. ALl the best to them.

Only more for historicals and less for the sci-fi I think. They've done a lot for the historical scene, pulled in and worked together with quite a few other, smaller companies out there in getting the minis to more of the masses.

wilycoyote wrote:
Warlord has a feeling of passion about their product as does Mantic - albeit by going plastic, fantasy/scifi they are inevitably going to be compared to GW - look at Dreadball a great game in its own right but hampered by the comparison to Blood Bowl.

Warlord is also getting more and more heavily into the plastics, just look at the Bolt Action range, it's slowly getting there, but most of the big nations out there have one or more plastic boxed sets going now and just look at their other historical ranges, loads of plastics there. Granted, not many done by Warlord itself.

**MrMoustaffa**

If they were making a fantasy game, yeah, I would say they'd be in trouble. Because GW already has a clear competitor there. Warmachine/hordes.

But this is Sci Fi. If they're making a large scale Sci Fi game, what other real competition does GW have? Mantic maybe, but it seems more like a cheap knock off than a truely unique game. If warlord can make a truly great Sci Fi wargame with multipart plastic miniatures (which is what I would bet the main chunk of the kickstarter would be paying for, plastic molds are expensive and they would need a ton of cash to bring in several armies out of thin air) they could be a true competitor. If someone came up and said "hey, there's a game like 40k, where you can run these same sized armies, but the rules are more streamlined and the models are cheaper" I would be all ears.

They could become essentially the "Privateer Press" of the Sci Fi market. A serious contender who is definitely eating into the market share of GW. Warmachine/hordes is already bigger than fantasy in the USA, so it's not impossible that Warlord could overtake GW as well. ESPECIALLY if they make some of their armies generic enough that 40k players could use their armies as is for the new system, then start to buy the official minis once they had a better feel for the game.

**Pacific**

GBDarkAngel wrote:

As for Warlord Games. Its great to see a small firm trying to take on the big boys.
I personally feel there is just too many ex GW hands in that particular pie.
I can honestly see this in a year or so magically becoming part of GW.

As a point of note I asked a lot of questions on the Website of the New table top game and to their credit they left the post for 5 minutes before deleting it.
Now I would have thought if you were looking for peoples money the last thing you would do is delete posts asking for more info.

Line 3 of your post is possibly one of the least likely things to happen - I would put it somewhere between God and the Devil joining forces, and there being a new children's show starring an animated Jimmy Saville.

And if your posts on the official forum are anything like the content you have posted in this thread, I'm amazed that they lasted five minutes before being deleted. I'm sorry but you sound more than a little trollish, and certainly very confrontational.

**Riquende**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
Mantic maybe, but it seems more like a cheap knock off than a truely unique game... If someone came up and said "hey, there's a game like 40k, where you can run these same sized armies, but the rules are more streamlined and the models are cheaper" I would be all ears.

So that would be Warpath then! (Seriously, have you read the rules? 40k knock off? Really?)

Anyway...

Warlord are great. I've had a slowly growing Roman army for years, and if I thought I could get games in at all I'd buy Hail Caesar in a shot. I've got an eye on making up Napoleonic and WW2 Forces as well once my current painting projects are done. They're making Historical wargames have a mass appeal, whereas before such a genre seemed to be the province of bearded 'veterans' meeting in hard to find places.

**BrookM**

It certainly helps the hobby as a whole that Warlord is helping with the distribution of the products of other companies, like Empress and the Perry's. Not that the latter really needed the help, but it's always great to find everything you need on one site.