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I have looked and I have had owners of store look and a veteran player look and we cant find it anywhere... ok this is a long one, I am looking for REAL answers and not WHAT YOU THINK but actual RAW on this..... Here we go>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Can you target the unit in a transport (for any reasons) but in particular shooting.

on page 12,
Choose a Target: you must check the range and line of sight.

Well if a unit ignores the LoS rules then you ignore the LoS part of that rule under Choose a Target.

Also no where in the rules does it say that you cant target a unit embarked in a transport (that we found).

This came up b.c I had a transport next to his Psyker and he used the spell "Sunburst" that has the Nova ability and Nova states: Automatically targets and hits all enemy units within the psychic powers range, regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat, intervening models/terrain and so on.

So I asked him "Would that hit the unit embarked in my transport and he said, no... wait?, It sounds like it would lets look it up to make sure b.c this is a NEW edition and might have changed."

Well after much looking we couldn't find anywhere that it said you can not target/shoot a unit embarked in a transport.

what do you think?

Please only quote real rules and page numbers

RAW yes you can hit and wound an embarked unit, however, I'm not seeing anything allowing you to allocate said wounds.

How are you drawing line of sight or distance to the embarked unit?

so a gk pergation squad can shoot at ANYTHING in range of their weapons have range to??,,,,,,

 Happyjew wrote:
RAW yes you can hit and wound an embarked unit, however, I'm not seeing anything allowing you to allocate said wounds.

Why cant you? What rules you read to get to this answer? So that I my better understand and continue looking it up.

 Grey Templar wrote:
How are you drawing line of sight or distance to the embarked unit?

There are some units that don't need LoS, like Hive Guard and there are others that do this as well.

More importantly distance. How do you have distance to the embarked unit? Don't tell me its because have distance to the transport, that only gives you distance to the transport.

 Grey Templar wrote:
More importantly distance. How do you have distance to the embarked unit? Don't tell me its because have distance to the transport, that only gives you distance to the transport.

What page is the rule that allows you to measure to a transport for effects? (Like the BA chalice)
Need to check the wording on that...

 Grey Templar wrote:
More importantly distance. How do you have distance to the embarked unit? Don't tell me its because have distance to the transport, that only gives you distance to the transport.

If someone can find the Page (I cant find it, I am looking right now) I 90% sure that I read somewhere in the book that "If you need to message to the embarked unit use the hall of the transport to do so." But again I might not have read that, I am looking for it now.

and I thought I read that "A unit that is held in reserves for a Dedicated Transport if marked being in the transport even tho that units isn't on the table." Again I thought I read this and I am now looking it up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pg 78 "Embarking" When the units embarks, remove the entire unit from the tableand place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported.

It goes on and says...

If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked units (except for its shooting), this range is measure to or from the vehicles hull.

So there we go, you can target/measure a unit embarked in a transport. But can you shoot it if you don't need Line of Sight?

how do you tell what model is the closest and in the gk faq the pergation squads can not shoot at units in transports and neither can hive guard or the doom of malanti. it just doesnt work in the realm of the game

Amishprn86 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
RAW yes you can hit and wound an embarked unit, however, I'm not seeing anything allowing you to allocate said wounds.

Why cant you? What rules you read to get to this answer? So that I my better understand and continue looking it up.

 Grey Templar wrote:
How are you drawing line of sight or distance to the embarked unit?

There are some units that don't need LoS, like Hive Guard and there are others that do this as well.

Certain psychic powers allow you to hit and wound units that are not in los. Certain weapons allow the same (such as scattering blast markers). However, until FAQ'd otherwise, you still need LOS to remove models. Otherwise, per the shooting rules, the Wound pool empties as you do not have LOS.

 Happyjew wrote:

Amishprn86 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
RAW yes you can hit and wound an embarked unit, however, I'm not seeing anything allowing you to allocate said wounds.

Why cant you? What rules you read to get to this answer? So that I my better understand and continue looking it up.

 Grey Templar wrote:
How are you drawing line of sight or distance to the embarked unit?

There are some units that don't need LoS, like Hive Guard and there are others that do this as well.

Certain psychic powers allow you to hit and wound units that are not in los. Certain weapons allow the same (such as scattering blast markers). However, until FAQ'd otherwise, you still need LOS to remove models. Otherwise, per the shooting rules, the Wound pool empties as you do not have LOS.

Why would the Wound Pool empty? Where is the rule that says this, if you cannot determined what model takes the wound 1st you then use RANDOM ALLOCATIONS described on pg 15.

Page 15, Take Saves and Remove Casualties. You have no permission to override this, therefore, the Wound pool empties.

 Happyjew wrote:
Page 15, Take Saves and Remove Casualties. You have no permission to override this, therefore, the Wound pool empties.

Im not overriding this at all, the casualties your removing arnt on the table that's all.

By the way line of sight doesn't work anymore, the line of sight rule says you draw line of sight from the eyes to the target. However on page ten under turning and facing it says the direction the model is facing doesn't effect its ability to shoot or assault a unit.

Eldercaveman wrote:
By the way line of sight doesn't work anymore, the line of sight rule says you draw line of sight from the eyes to the target. However on page ten under turning and facing it says the direction the model is facing doesn't effect its ability to shoot or assault a unit.

The whole point of this is If you IGNORE the LoS rule can you shoot at things embarked in Vehicles, or special rules that auto hit all units within range.

So there for Drawing the Line is not needed.

no

 forchoas wrote:
no

???

Pg 16 out of sight. Even if you somehow determine that your can target the unit, you don't have LOS to allocate wounds, this is why the wound pool will empty.

Also, I am away from my BRB so forgive me, but how exactly are passengers described, because if they are treated as removed from the battlefield then you can't target them one would think.

Haha, it's the doom argument again, in short no, gw has made it clear through multiple faqs on similar abilities that targeting or hitting units in a transport ( outside of blowing it up to cause wounds to occupants) you cannot effect it's contents, anyone who tries this ( and tries it on purpose) is either trying to cheat or does not know the rules

Crazy rule answer! No, you may not target units inside a transport.

 Formosa wrote:
Haha, it's the doom argument again, in short no, gw has made it clear through multiple faqs on similar abilities that targeting or hitting units in a transport ( outside of blowing it up to cause wounds to occupants) you cannot effect it's contents, anyone who tries this ( and tries it on purpose) is either trying to cheat or does not know the rules

I would tend to agree but I know this was covered in 5th, not sure in 6th. I still think that even using the BRB as it stands are answer is no simply using page 16.

 Formosa wrote:
Haha, it's the doom argument again, in short no, gw has made it clear through multiple faqs on similar abilities that targeting or hitting units in a transport ( outside of blowing it up to cause wounds to occupants) you cannot effect it's contents, anyone who tries this ( and tries it on purpose) is either trying to cheat or does not know the rules

Im not trying to actually use it in a game at all, I actually had this happen to me and I told the other play "IMO it hits my units embarked into my transport" yes a FAQ said A Power cant do it, but that doesn't really say ALL cant do it.

Its just a rules question b.c I WANT TO KNOW THE RAW for it and not what you think, SoloFalcon1138, You cant just say no with out rules from the BRB or Faqs b.c b.c then anyone could say anything for any rule they want to make it true.

First off, permissive rule set. So the question is: do you see anything that allows you to shoot a unit that is embarked in a transport?

The rules we do have are:

When attempting to perform a regular (non-psychic) shooting attack you have to check range and LOS. In this case you do not have LOS to the embarked target (it's not even on the table); so that ends that.

When attempting to perform a psychic shooting attack, we have to look at the BRB FAQ:
Q: Can psychic powers or other effects that cause a leadership test, for example the Tyranids Psychic Scream, affect vehicles or units embarked upon transports?
A: No.

Wounds taken from a shooting attack might cause a leadership/morale test. Therefore you can't shoot them.

Pg. 67 A psyker outside a transport cannot target a unit embarked in one.

Keep in mind he wasn't just asking about psykers there fellas. Purgation and HG, heck even smart missile pods don't require LOS to hit targets. They do require LOS to allocate wounds though if im not mistaken this wasn't faq'd

LOS isnt an issue i understand. You cant target a unit in a transport because you cant check range on it.
pg 78 "if the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is measure too or from the vehicles hull."
Can you check range on a model not on the table?

The quoted rule allows to me to check range to an embarked unit.
Hive Guard, for example, do not need LOS to target a unit.

Permission to target? Check.
Permission to check range? Check.

There is no permission to check for range out of that. It says "measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting)" Has nothing to do with LOS. You cant measure from your firing unit to models you are shooting, and this rule states you cant measure to the hull. You cant check range so you cant shoot.

Backlash wrote:
There is no permission to check for range out of that. It says "measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting)" Has nothing to do with LOS. You cant measure from your firing unit to models you are shooting, and this rule states you cant measure to the hull. You cant check range so you cant shoot.

I need to measure a range involving the embarked unit. This measurement has nothing to do with the embarked unit shooting.
Why does the quoted rule not apply?

clively wrote:
First off, permissive rule set. So the question is: do you see anything that allows you to shoot a unit that is embarked in a transport?

The rules we do have are:

When attempting to perform a regular (non-psychic) shooting attack you have to check range and LOS. In this case you do not have LOS to the embarked target (it's not even on the table); so that ends that.

When attempting to perform a psychic shooting attack, we have to look at the BRB FAQ:
Q: Can psychic powers or other effects that cause a leadership test, for example the Tyranids Psychic Scream, affect vehicles or units embarked upon transports?
A: No.

Wounds taken from a shooting attack might cause a leadership/morale test. Therefore you can't shoot them.

This is the closest to an answer I was looking for its a round about way to say "NO" but it is the closes like I said.