Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I've been thinking about how to expand my army. I currently run a mainly Infantry force and am at 1,000 points. Here's an idea of what I am working with. Company commands, primaris Psyker, platoon command with 5 squads, Lascannon HWS, 1 veteran squad, 2 leman Russ. I want to add 3 account sentinels with auto cannons as a harassment element and pop light armor. I feel like I could set them up away from my main army and they could handle themselves alone. I feel like they would be a great addition because I lack some bigger fire power as is, and if I add more AV to my army it might draw fire away from my infantry or they would get left alone to cause havoc.

What do you guys think about my idea? What are your experiences with Scout Sentinels? Thoughts? Advice?

Thanks for any help.

I think sentinels are alright, but I've found that mine just don't do anything, and, lets face it, there are many more deadly alternatives
Some people have had some success with equipping them with lascannons, but I've found that they're too fragile and at the same time too costly for that armament.

Run them with lascannons (other weapons are too puny, yes, even against side armor), and almost always ouflank them (too fragile to start on the board).

Scout sentinels are cool because it's a cheap way to get hull points on the table, and because they can outflank (unlike vendettas), and because they can get into close combat. This means contesting objectives (and scoring on Scouring missions), and drawing models away from an objective.

The best part is that if they have krak grenades, they can't break and run, and they're going to have a hard time beating up 3 sentinels with just krak grenades, and if they can't hurt the walker, then you get the chance to just sweeping advance them straight off the board.

They also get other tiny goodies (ability to overwatch, ability to take searchlights, etc.), but really what we're talking about with scout sentinels is using them as a strategic tool. If you're not screwing things up in your opponent's deployment zone, and only care about the damage they do in shooting, then don't bother with scout sentinels. Russes can do the job with better armor, and HWSs can do the job for much cheaper, to say nothing of vendettas.

They die too easily to do anything decent.

The only reasonable use is outflanking Lascannons, and even that is crap.

 Ailaros wrote:
because they can outflank (unlike vendettas)

Please stop misquoting that FAQ. Vendettas can outflank, end of discussion.


Anyway, Sentinels of any kind are garbage. They cost more than a Vendetta, but have much less firepower and durability and no transport capacity. The only reason you should ever even consider using them is because you got a battleforce and can't afford to replace them with Vendettas yet.

Funny you guys mention vendettas, I was wondering about their usefulness as well, but that's for another discussion.

I disagree about them being garbage, a scout sentinel is 40 Pts with an auto cannon 3 of them is 120pts a vendetta is around 130-140pts. And they have their uses like Ailaros said tying up in CC and all around harassment. I would only do auto cannons on them cause I want to wreck trucks and rhinos while having the versatility to take down any infantry. Plus I never roll well with one shot lasconnons.

Now, I didn't c anywhere that said they can outflank, and I thought they could, but from my understanding they only have the scout rule? Please give me a page number or explanation for them being able to outflank. Because if they can I feel like that increases their validity quite a bit.

Scout sentinels are great for their points. Why do they seem like sub par units? It is the same slot as the valk/vendetta. I find leaving them stock with multi lasers or upgrading to auto cannons worth it.

Now, I have never run three in a squadron or three in a game at all. At that point you can take the flyer. In my current 1750 list I had 40 points left over after HQ, troops, dedicated transports , elites and heavies. At 40 points guard options are pretty weak. 4 ratings or an outflanking auto cannon.

 Ailaros wrote:
because they can outflank (unlike vendettas)

Comments like this are just begging for a flame-war. Unintentional or not, stuff like this can be considered trolling; that is, speaking in absolutes regarding a known disputed ruling.

I deliberately attempted to avoid it, because even though I believe that they are still able to outflank; logically a debate over such a rule would detract from the discussion.

TLDR: It's mature to avoid saying stuff like that.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 Che-Vito wrote:

If this is what you're referencing, then the wording is crystal clear: the Scout rule has no effect on a Valkyrie or Vendetta.

The wording isn't clear as to whether Scout not having effect still confers Outflank.

Because the conference of Outflank isn't an effect of Scout, its an effect of having scout. Vendettas still have scout. They just don't benefit from its effects. If you have scout, you have outflank.

This whole issue belongs in YMDC, and it was frankly foolish to bring it up in the first place, as well as childish/ignorant to act as if it is clear-cut.

iheartlargeblasttemplates wrote: I would only do auto cannons on them cause I want to wreck trucks and rhinos while having the versatility to take down any infantry. Plus I never roll well with one shot lasconnons.

Autocannons are terrible anti-infantry weapons. It's not worth sacrificing the anti-vehicular goodness of a lascannon just to handle infantry slightly less poorly.

If you want an anti-infantry sentinel, then just keep them with the multilaser. By that point, though, I don't know why you'd bother, given that 3 mulilasers aren't going to be ALL that good. Find a few more points and run a hellhound instead. They don't get to run backfield shenannigans as well but they're way, WAY better at killing infantry models.

Never rolling well with one-shot lascannons doesn't mean they aren't the good choice.

Your poor, anecdotal luck isn't a good basis for list-building.

Lascannons are good for what the Scout Sentinel is there for, outflanking into side-rear armor.

Autocannons aren't effective anti-armor at BS3 in a group of 3.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 Che-Vito wrote:


It doesn't belong in YMDC...the argument above as presented:
"The FAQ says that the Scout rule has no effect on the Vendetta, but the Vendetta gains Outflank from having Scout, not using it."

That's beyond silly; and incredibly clear-cut.

Don't try to interpret the rules in attempt to have them "make sense".

The scout rule has no effect on Vendettas.

Vendettas still have scout.

If you have scout, you have outflank.

Gaining outflank is not an effect of scout. It's a byproduct.

As written, Vendettas still have scout, and thus have outflank. Scout just has no effects.

RAW>RAI

Sorry, bud. Arguing interpretation is irrelevant on the internet. Rules as written always trumps it. Find me a FAQ that says Valk/Vendettas lose scout, and you'd be right, but until then...

 Che-Vito wrote:
If this is what you're referencing, then the wording is crystal clear: the Scout rule has no effect on a Valkyrie or Vendetta.

Wrong. The FAQ is specifically addressing the scout redeployment. It's simple:

FAQs can only clarify ambiguous rules, they can't change rules.

Errata can and does change rules.

Since this was presented as an FAQ it can only apply to the ambiguous scout redeployment, and can not simply remove the outflanking ability as well. For that it requires errata, just like when GW removed lumbering behemoth from Leman Russes it was done through an errata removing the rule and adding the heavy USR, not by an FAQ. And so far we do not have that errata.

Hmm so Scout Sentinels can outflank due to the scout rule I take it? Thanks.

And okay but taking Lascannons makes them more expensive ill have to try it out both options.

I want them for not only anti-tank but back field harassment I feel they would do well at this and add some AV to my list which it badly needs.

 Peregrine wrote:

FAQs can only clarify ambiguous rules, they can't change rules.

Errata can and does change rules.

And so far we do not have that errata.

Yeah. This.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iheartlargeblasttemplates wrote:
Hmm so Scout Sentinels can outflank due to the scout rule I take it? Thanks.

And okay but taking Lascannons makes them more expensive ill have to try it out both options.

I want them for not only anti-tank but back field harassment I feel they would do well at this and add some AV to my list which it badly needs.

Yeah, Scout Sentinels can outflank. I'd assemble them fully, but leave off the gun until you find what performs better. Run some math on them as well; I think you'll find that against rear/side armor, the Lascannon will Pen much more reliably.

Back field harassment is sortof a myth. Only really works against assault/short range armies that have to send something to deal with you.

For any other purpose, midfield harassment works just as well as backfield, and can be done better with more point-efficient units.

iheartlargeblasttemplates wrote:And okay but taking Lascannons makes them more expensive ill have to try it out both options.

I agree that you should probably refrain from seriously gluing anything down. Sentinels are a little tricky to magnetize, or do other things to make their guns swappable as they are mounted to the side of the cab, though.

Worst case, you can really, really lightly superglue a gun in with just the absolute tiniest bit of glue you can possibly get away with. That way you can just rip the gun off if you don't like it. Don't try this with plastic glue, though, of course.

That or just build it as a lascannon sentinel and then proxy it as something else for awhile until you see the inferiority of every other weapon, and wind up just running it as a lascannon sentinel anyways.

iheartlargeblasttemplates wrote:I want them for not only anti-tank but back field harassment I feel they would do well at this and add some AV to my list which it badly needs.

Well... there are better ways to get AV into your list. For the price of 3 lascannon sentinels, you can get a leman russ. Not quite as shooty (though an exterminator is equally as shooty as 3 autocannon sentinels), and it has half the hull points, but it gets +4 AV, and loses open topped, which more than makes up for this.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 Che-Vito wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:
The scout rule has no effect on Vendettas.

Vendettas still have scout.

If you have scout, you have outflank.

Gaining outflank is not an effect of scout. It's a byproduct.

RAP: I don't frankly care if someone wants to Outflank their Vendettas. It's what they're meant to do.
RAW: Your argument above is 100% incorrect. You're fabricating a difference between 'effect' and 'byproduct'. As is Peregrine for that matter; GW clarified something and it's the RAW we've got for now.

Like Peregrine said; FAQ's clarify rules, Erratas change them. You're citing a FAQ and trying to state its changing a rule. Not the case.

Try to do as Ailaros did; the mature thing, and drop it due to irrelevance.

I personlly don't think Vendettas can outflank and I will continue to not outflank mine. I don't think they need it anyways as they are fast enough to get anywhere on the table as is.

 Che-Vito wrote:
As is Peregrine for that matter; GW clarified something and it's the RAW we've got for now.

The point is that there isn't clear RAW, the FAQ is ambiguous and has two possible interpretations:

1) You can't use the Scout redeployment, no matter how creative you get in explaining why you should be able to have your Vendetta on the table on the first turn. The "no effect" statement is just an attempt to rule out all possible loopholes in the context of scout redeployments (as the question asked). The FAQ has nothing to do with the separate outflank issue.

or

2) "No effect" means "remove the Scout USR entirely", but is just worded poorly.

Now, the point is that these two interpretations are not equal. Interpretation #1 is consistent with how GW treats errata and FAQs, while interpretation #2 contradicts GW's use of errata and FAQs by making a rule change through an FAQ instead of the appropriate errata. In the absence of an unambiguous ruling on the subject the sensible way to interpret the statement is #1.

(And let's be honest here, most of the desire to pick interpretation #2 comes from the fact that Vendettas are powerful and arguably need a nerf, so people are naturally going to favor an interpretation that gives them one.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sinji wrote:
I personlly don't think Vendettas can outflank and I will continue to not outflank mine. I don't think they need it anyways as they are fast enough to get anywhere on the table as is.

The important thing isn't the distance, it's the angle. Outflanking lets you get side/rear amor, while moving on from your own table edge usually gives you front/side.

Aaaanyways, I find that sentinels are best run solo, and outflanking. They will die, but the goal is the waste your enemy's firepower of the dinky sentinel instead of your units downfeild.

Heavy flamers are ok if your opponent likes to deploy near the edges. Multilasers and autocannons I find are both a bit medicore, same goes with the lascannon. Really, I find that sentinels are more of a distraction than anything else, but through smart deployment and perhaps a lucky arrival, your opponent may decide to waste the firepower of a TAC squad on the sentinel instead of your infantry.

Later on in the game, I find my opponents usually start going for troops, so sentinels have to be in the fight early, and be well-placed (i.e. making them a situational threat to your opponent) to make that much of a difference.

That said, the model looks freaking amazing, and they are great fun to build and paint.

I'm not a fan of sentinels. My sentinel has whiffed literally every shot it's ever fired, so who knows, maybe I'm just cursed.

I've had much better luck with hellhounds and vendettas/valkyries to be perfectly honest, in every single role a poor sentinel could ever hope to achieve.

Quick random question. Would Sentinels be better if they could contest objectives even though they are vehicles it would fit there fluff of being an advanced scout type vehicles.

Sinji wrote:
Quick random question. Would Sentinels be better if they could contest objectives even though they are vehicles it would fit there fluff of being an advanced scout type vehicles.

It'd be better than nothing.

They really feel like they should be a troop choice, like you can add them to platoons or something.

And maybe 5-10pts cheaper.

Armoured Sentinels are definatly over costed scouts could use a 5-10 point decrease

I didn't think about the effectiveness of heavy flamers on them, but that could really take away from how much harassment they can produce, because they have to get really close. And lets face it the opponent can just wait til they get close and deal with them when needed, taking them out of target priority until they are in flamer range. Where with lascannon or auto cannon they can be effective in a lot more different roles and ranges. A good advantage of flamers would be clearing objectives and over watch would be awesome.

I still think for what they can do they have potential. The mobility and light armor, with the built in low target priority, they can be surprisingly annoying and once they have inflicted some damage they will draw fire away from your troops in mid-late game which is exactly what every commander wants. They would be a thorn in your opponents side all game, unless he spends precious resources on destroying them.

 iheartlargeblasttemplates wrote:
unless he spends precious resources on destroying them.

Resources like a volley of bolter fire. Not exactly game breaking for an objective camping combat squad to wipe out a sentinel when it's got nothing else to do.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 iheartlargeblasttemplates wrote:
unless he spends precious resources on destroying them.

Resources like a volley of bolter fire. Not exactly game breaking for an objective camping combat squad to wipe out a sentinel when it's got nothing else to do.

5 less bolters aimed at your troops.