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Hi all. What would you like to see improved in the next Eldar codex?

Personally I would like to see some or all of the following:

- Mastery level 3 for Farseers (4 for Eldrad to make him equal to Ahriman)
- Reduce Runes of Warding to 24" range (even as an Eldar player I think this is fair)
- Increased range and/or Shred for all shuriken weapons (no increased range for pistols though)
- Warp Spiders gain Fearless (they teleport willingly through the warp, that implies a certain courage) and rending for their death spinners as they are basically ranged versions of the harlequins kiss
- Allow Swooping Hawks to Swoop as per flying monstrous creatures and make a Vector Strike with their Haywire Grenades (each Aspect has to have a niche role in the army and anti-flier seems perfect for Swooping Hawks)
- Change Defend Exarch Power to give Dire Avengers Stubborn and the effect of defensive grenades (every turn)
- Either Relentess or Slow & Purposeful for Dark Reapers and -1 to cover saves for their Target Finders (perhaps as a unit upgrade)
- Give Striking Scorpions Fleet and ability to assault from Outflank
- Allow Howling Banshees to charge out of vehicle on same turn (or give Wave Serpent an assault ramp)
- More attacks for Shining Spears and allow Laser Lances to count as a power sword in subsequent combat rounds (or give them a slash attack similar to Dark Eldar Bladevanes)
- Invulnerable save for Wraithguard and Wraithlords (5++ probably, also 2+ save for Wraithlords?)

That's all I have for now. Let's have some input Craftworld generals!

Allow Swooping Hawks to Swoop as per flying monstrous creatures and make a Vector Strike with their Haywire Grenades (each Aspect has to have a niche role in the army and anti-flier seems perfect for Swooping Hawks)

I'd never though that, but it fits very well!

I concur at least in as far as I feel Swooping Hawks should be Flying Infantry.

rohansoldier wrote:
Hi all. What would you like to see improved in the next Eldar codex?

Personally I would like to see some or all of the following:

- Mastery level 3 for Farseers (4 for Eldrad to make him equal to Ahriman)
- Reduce Runes of Warding to 24" range (even as an Eldar player I think this is fair)
- Increased range and/or Shred for all shuriken weapons (no increased range for pistols though)
- Warp Spiders gain Fearless (they teleport willingly through the warp, that implies a certain courage) and rending for their death spinners as they are basically ranged versions of the harlequins kiss
- Allow Swooping Hawks to Swoop as per flying monstrous creatures and make a Vector Strike with their Haywire Grenades (each Aspect has to have a niche role in the army and anti-flier seems perfect for Swooping Hawks)
- Change Defend Exarch Power to give Dire Avengers Stubborn and the effect of defensive grenades (every turn)
- Either Relentess or Slow & Purposeful for Dark Reapers and -1 to cover saves for their Target Finders (perhaps as a unit upgrade)
- Give Striking Scorpions Fleet and ability to assault from Outflank
- Allow Howling Banshees to charge out of vehicle on same turn (or give Wave Serpent an assault ramp)
- More attacks for Shining Spears and allow Laser Lances to count as a power sword in subsequent combat rounds (or give them a slash attack similar to Dark Eldar Bladevanes)
- Invulnerable save for Wraithguard and Wraithlords (5++ probably, also 2+ save for Wraithlords?)

That's all I have for now. Let's have some input Craftworld generals!

I don't know the current rules for Eldar, but I think the Mastery Levels sounds fair. I like the sounds of the idea with Swooping Hawks, though I imagine I would be boned if I was playing against them.
I don't think Reapers should have Relentless or Slow and Purposeful though. Isn't that aspect meant to be sacrificing movement for armour? What around do they currently have in that regard?
I'm also not sure why Lances should become Power Swords. Aren't they meant to be a strong hit and then moving on? That's the usual idea with knights / lance equipped troops isn't it? Do they have the Hit and Run USR?
Given Terminators have 5++, I think I'd be okay with it on Wraithtroops.

Man, I'd really love to have a few games versus some Eldar. Slaanesh is hungry.

 Shandara wrote:

Allow Swooping Hawks to Swoop as per flying monstrous creatures and make a Vector Strike with their Haywire Grenades (each Aspect has to have a niche role in the army and anti-flier seems perfect for Swooping Hawks)

I'd never though that, but it fits very well!

im not sure if swooping hawks or DE scorges are fast or manuverable enough to go after flyers. Also vector strike is d3+1 auto hits per model, seems excessive. Certainly something where they could zoom or gain skyfire, or something would be very nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rohansoldier wrote:

- Reduce Runes of Warding to 24" range (even as an Eldar player I think this is fair)
- Give Striking Scorpions Fleet and ability to assault from Outflank

Done easy


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rohansoldier wrote:


- Mastery level 3 for Farseers (4 for Eldrad to make him equal to Ahriman)

Point cost would have to go up. Eldrad is already crazy good for his points

rohansoldier wrote:

- Warp Spiders gain Fearless (they teleport willingly through the warp, that implies a certain courage) and rending for their death spinners as they are basically ranged versions of the harlequins kiss

rohansoldier wrote:

umm? Most things in the fluff are pretty nasty. Mandrakes are half daemons who have been fused to the webway, why should they care about mortal pains. CSM Warp Talons are also suitably nasty entities that live int he warp. They arent fearless either. What does a mutilator fear?
Adding rending makes them too good against light tanks. Make all monofiliment weapons str- fleshbane, so they always wound on 2+
- Change Defend Exarch Power to give Dire Avengers Stubborn and the effect of defensive grenades (every turn)

perhaps, i think there are more changes to DA with shurkien weapons and eldar armor though that would be better played out

rohansoldier wrote:

- Either Relentess or Slow & Purposeful for Dark Reapers and -1 to cover saves for their Target Finders (perhaps as a unit upgrade)

I would rather see all eldar snap fire on a 5 or 6, to represent their advanced weaponry. cover modifiers arent happening. It is either ignore(crazy good) or nothing

rohansoldier wrote:

- Give Striking Scorpions Fleet and ability to assault from Outflank

nothing can assault after outflanking. 6th edition was specifically designed to prevent assault out of reserves. The only thing that can do it takes massive risks.

rohansoldier wrote:

- Allow Howling Banshees to charge out of vehicle on same turn (or give Wave Serpent an assault ramp)

vehicle upgrade possiblities, still 6th edition sucks for assault, so why bother.

rohansoldier wrote:

- More attacks for Shining Spears and allow Laser Lances to count as a power sword in subsequent combat rounds (or give them a slash attack similar to Dark Eldar Bladevanes)

The point of lances is to make them hit hard on the first turn and then nothing on following turns. I say +1 str, AP2 on round 1, Ap4 normal str after that.

rohansoldier wrote:

- Invulnerable save for Wraithguard and Wraithlords (5++ probably, also 2+ save for Wraithlords?)

Point cost would go up and toughness would go down. The dreadknight costs more, has a 2+ and a 5++ but is only T6. 2+ armor seems a little much. Still I could see the 5++ and T5 for wraithguard and T7 for wraithlords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rohansoldier wrote:
Hi all. What would you like to see improved in the next Eldar codex?

- Increased range and/or Shred for all shuriken weapons (no increased range for pistols though)

shred, str3, 18" rapid fire
avenger str 3, 24" rapid fire shred
cannon str4 24" shred heavy 5


Automatically Appended Next Post:
fortune has to go away. It is crazy abuseable.
bright lances/missile launchers and star cannons need to be cheaper, much cheaper.


further
I really like the idea of making all eldar armor need AP to beat its value to be removed. IE need AP4 to negate a 5+ save. AP3 to negate a 4+ save.

Would need to bump the phoniex lords back to 3+ or change point costs. With that, wraithlords and guard wouldnt need anything more(no 5++)

I also think all eldar should snap fire on a 5+, like I said earlier. Precision shots would still only be on 6s.
These changes would effect Eldar and DE

Farseer mastery level: please see the Chaos Sorcerer for a hint at costs. I'd say prices shouldn't take too much of a hike from current (while brushing the cost for purchasing powers under the carpet), but it's mostly depending on whether Ghost Helm would be standard gear or not.
You can make an almost-Eldrad-but-slightly-different Chaos Sorcerer for cheaper than Eldrad.

Personally, one small but important change would be for ALL Exarch powers to become squad powers. Naturally things like Crack Shot needs to be drastically changed, but having the entire squads training disappear because of a single stray bullet is a bit odd.

Guardians really should be an Eldar army's engineer corps. You know, the guys who run around with light carbines and all the gadgets. Lightest armour, worst basic weapon, decent amount of special weapons (fusion guns, flamers, long rifles, haywire launchers, power weapons), the odd heavy weapon (i.e. an optional platform), one or two optional gadgets (Webway portals, plasma shields, demo-charges)

Full blown Warlock psychers with max ML1 that's got an essential warrior profile and does not need a Farseer to purchase with an exotic distribution system. Warlocks really have the potential to bring the Eldar army's psycher potential up, but I feel that tying them to Farseers is just bad for the army in general and forces you to select a certain HQ/Warlord for every single game and tying them to Guardians and Wraithguards has the potential of tethering the players to a different sort of unit that simply doesn't fit an Alaitoc, Biel-Tan or Saim-Hann army - Biel-Tan above all would make sense to stick Warlocks among, for example, Striking Scorpions rather than Wraithguards.

Wraithlords are a bit difficult. In order to get better armour they need to get worse toughness (or a price hike). Wraithguards on the other hand I feel need to be given proper MC status - though that gives Smash and having an A1 creature with Smash is a bit off. A middle ground would be to give them voluntary access to D-Blade (melee distort weapons which should also be available to the Autarch, although for him it's a two-handed weapon).
In either case I feel Wraithsight needs to have it's chance element removed. Straight up "if not within 12 inch of a psycher, the Wraith is Slow and Purposeful and has a weapon skill and ballistics skill of 1". Yes, harsh, but not as harsh as completely useless for a turn.

Warlord traits. Focus on annoyance. Examples:
Ranger Disruption - forces 1d3 random enemy units to deploy in normal reserves. Does not work on models that must start in a certain type of deployment (e.g. fliers) and may force opponent to deploy fewer than the minimum required units.
Divined fate - allow the Warlord to redeploy 1d3+1 units prior to scouts and infiltrators are placed. (Guess what Warlord trait Eldrad has as default)
Logistics - each turn, the Warlord may decide whether a friendly unit enters from reserve or not without rolling dice. Yes, this does mean he can keep them away from the battlefield when they'd ordinarily be forced to come in.
Swordwind - all aspect warriors are scoring. (The default trait for the Biel-Tan special character)
Hidden death - the battlefield has been mined by forward Ranger elements. At the end of any turn, when an enemy infantry unit enters a previously unexplored area terrain feature, on a roll of 5 or 6 that terrain piece was mined. Resolve a single Plasma Grenade hit on the unit using the ranged profile.
Path of the Seer - the warlord has walked the Path of the Seer before and is a mastery level 1 psycher. Upon gaining this trait, immediately generate a psychic power and add this to the charcters repertoire (yes, that means a Farseer of ML3 would have 4 powers). No, this does not give you a free Ghost Helm.


Exergy: Phoenix Lords would be able to stay 2+ with the correct wording. "In order to penetrate Eldar armour, an armour piercing value capable of piercing an armour value one point better than the listed value is required". Since the best armour value is 2+, and since 1+ is treated exactly like 2+, you get to penetrate Eldar 3+ AND 2+ armour with AP2 or better.
For Snap Fire I'd say select Aspect Warriors would be able to get a squad upgrade (I call them Discipline) that alters their snap fire behaviour. Dire Avengers (and by extension Autarchs who've trained as Dire Avengers) would be able to take the Calm Under Pressure upgrade which allows them to use full ballistics skill when Snap Firing while Reapers (and their Autarchs) would be able to get a power that is essentially I've Been Expecting You, though toned down to a single reaction per turn but at longer range. While it makes sense that a Scorpion would be a significantly better shot than a human in all situations, unfortunately Snap Fire is BS1 for everyone, including every single other race's specialist and marksmen.

Ideas for Eldar Warlord Traits (some borrowed from above)

Swordwind - All Aspect Warrior units in the army count as scoring units for this battle.

Ranger Disruption - All Ranger or Pathfinder units in the army gain a free round of shooting before the game begins (perhaps just one unit for balance purposes?)

Council of Seers - All units in the Eldar army will Deny the Witch on a 5+ instead of a 6. In addition, all Farseers in the army count as being one Mastery Level higher than they are.

Not sure on Iyanden or Saim Hann relevant Traits yet.

I do like the Calm Under Pressure rule for Dire Avengers, that fits right in with their intended purpose. Although I would like to see Stubborn as well.

Fleshbane Monofilament weapons could work as well as I doubt they were intended to take out light vehicles (more of an anti - infantry weapon).

To represent Guardians being able to take a variety of weaponry across their units, how about this for options:

-Merge Storm and Defender guardians into one unit
- Shuriken catapults and plasma grenades as basic weaponry
- Swap catapult to shuriken pistol and combat weapon for no cost
- The unit may take up to 1 Weapon platform or 2 Special weapons for every 10 models in the unit (so if you want a more mobile shooty unit you can have catapults and special weaponry)
- New special weapon - Star rifle
Strength 6, range 24" ap2, rapid fire
- Perhaps allow Guardians to take lasblasters instead of shuriken catapults for + 2pts per model

I like most of what I see here. I really think that GW needs to give us more options for CC (just from a sales point of view). I don't like the idea of rapid fire, I prefer the way Eldar weaponry works at present (to me rapid fire is a SM thing although I think other factions have it too).

I have been thinking of a Warp Generator type option for WSs and Falcons that could make them assault vehicles. The embarked unit would DS from within the transport (it would work basically as a homing beacon (6" range from the transport hull), except that the unit would be able to shoot and assault.

Otherwise, I like the ideas for Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders.

I haven't been playing long (I started in 5th so this is my first edition change and new codex). What is the expectation for Eldar Flyers? Does GW just pull in the Forgeworld unit/rules or will they come up with their own models/stats? What would people like or expect for Eldar Flyers?

Flyers, from what I've heard, will feature things like a top-mounted D-Cannon and D-missiles. The fighter might have haywire missiles. Not too much info on them yet. I do fully expect them to be nothing like the Nightwing or Phoenix.

I've been tinkering with how to write proper rules for flying infantry quite a bit and have come to the conclusion that a grounding test for those are quite obscene and would make no sense.
Instead I'd say that when shooting at flying infantry you get a re-roll on your to-wound to represent the increased dangers of being hit at high altitudes.
Also, I had Intercept down as the power necessary to place grenades on flyers (or rather, literally assault flyers if you yourself is flying, thus also being able to bring FMC down to the ground to be assaulted by Shining Spears etc - neatly creating a bit of extra synergy)

Yes I think Intercept would be the perfect choice for allowing Hawks to use their grenades on fliers and FMC.

As someone else said, all Exarch powers should become squad upgrades though. There is no way that experienced soldiers like Aspect Warriors forget all their special training because their boss takes a bullet to the head. It just makes no sense!

That being said, do CSM units lose their benefits of icons if the icon bearer is killed? Surely someone else would just pick it up like a heavy or special weapon?

I believe we do lose the icon's effect, though the model is likely to remain unless taken out via precision shots or being the closest casualty.

In response to Exergy, I didn't release that Vector Strikes were D3+1 hits per model. That would be clearly unbalanced (although freakin awesome!) for swooping hawks with haywire grenades. Make their attack on enemy fliers one hit per model with haywire grenades (4+ to hit because of Intercept unless Vector Strike hits automatically?).

That would make swooping hawks cool again while also giving them a niche role in the army (as all Aspects should have).

The alternative to Vector Strikes for Hawks is to simply allow them to assault fliers as if they were in hover mode. Potentially high risk depending on where the flier is in relation to the rest of the army, but it would be one of the few units in the game capable of reliably killing a flier (which is why the game is so unbalanced atm, cause the stuff designed to kill them is still a 1/3 chance at best).

Just some ideas off the top of my head:
Exarch's become compulsory upgrades i.e you buy the Exarch + 4 other guys as the default squad - mostly a fluff based thing but also helps combat mini maxing to some degree.

All Eldar apart from Wraithguard and Wraithlords (who should probably be able to get it with an upgrade) have Fleet by default, including the Avatar

Some form of Eldar specific psychic table, would include Fortune, Doom and a seriously buffed Eldritch Storm (possibly a warp charge 1 as well as a boosted warp charge 2 version). You obviously don't need Guide anymore, and Mind War is quite close to some of the rulebook powers, so you would need 1 (if they go with a D3 table) to 4 more powers (if they do a full D6 table, which the probably deserve). Fortune needs to be reworded so that only models from codex Eldar can make use of it (so no more 2++ re-rollable stupidity). Simply making them use tables is already a major nerf, since if you want Fortune to make an army work (like Councils etc do atm) then you have to go crazy with the number of powers you have to ensure you get it.

Farseers with access to stupidly high numbers of Mastery Levels is fine, as long as they don't get the Warp Charge to cast them all. I would be perfectly happy giving Eldrad 6 powers as long as he can only cast 2-3 per turn. Alternatively give Seers/Eldard some way to pick some or all of their powers without rolling. Standard Seers become T4, Eldrad drops to T3 (he is supposed to be insanely old/dead, this balances him out quite nicely as he is no longer a tank), both gain an attack (even Librarians have 2 attacks). Witchblades (and Singing Spears) gain the Force special rule but still only have AP4 or 5. Seers don't get access to power weapons, Warlocks get a psychic power which lets everyone in the unit count as having one lower AP if they pass (which can stack like Hammerhand).

Warlocks become proper Lvl 1 Psykers with Ld9, 2A and I5 base. Either a seperate psychic chart (Seers/Warlocks or Buffs/Offence with Seers having access to both) with a good base power, or just let them buy their powers as they are now. Still not sure what slot they should go in but change them so that they work like Wolf Guard or a Necron Court, and can be attached to ANY Eldar unit including Aspect Warriors (limit 1 per squad). This matches the fluff, they act as battle leaders and links back to the Seers/command structure for plenty of different units, not just Guardians. This would open up some interesting options for adding different tactical options for different Aspects (see Warlocks with -1AP power with Banshees), and ensure that Eldar remain a heavily psychic army.

Remove Support Weapon Batteries from the Heavy slot and let Guardian Defenders take them instead, probably 1 per 10 max. If Guardians get some form of special weapon then this should be place of the standard platform, if they don't then it could be in addition to (2 D Cannons and 2 Missiles in a 20 man unit is strong but not overpowering because its still T3). Also give Guardians access to mobile shield generators to give themselves cover saves everywhere.

Avengers get a serious boost, no one wins games by spamming bolters (even the DA Bolter banner combo needs some other stuff to work properly) and Avengers are far far worse than Bolters. Give them Shred/Rending and/or another shot, and give them access to 1 Shuriken Cannon per 5 guys (which they can move and shoot). If they are supposed to be the more allround 'balanced' Aspect then they need to be able to take on vehicles as well. They should also probably have 2 attacks base.

Dragons need a slight points JUMP (pretty much the only thing that does). I'm crossing my fingers they don't get the infamous double nerf and lose their Meltaguns for Heat Lances. I would also like to see all the specialist Aspects redone, all the shooting ones get BS5 WS3, all the assault ones get WS5 BS3 (and everyone gets 2A base) and the balanced ones (Avengers, Spiders, Hawks) stay WS4 BS4. An even more radical one I would like to see if Phoenix Lords removed from the HQ section (opening up space for more Craftworld specific HQs, Bonesinger, Wraithlord special character etc). This wouldn't be much of an issue since they don't really lead armies anyway, in the fluff they just join up with an Aspect Squad and beat peoples faces in. Make any Aspect unit led by a Phoenix Lord scoring, but keep them 200 odd points and people won't spam them. It also removes a few of the silly combo units people try and run.

Wraithguard and Wraithlords get FNP (either by default or as a psychic power from a Spiritseer/Bonesinger), Wraithguard get a 1 per 10 D Cannon or some other ranged weapon so they can do things outside of 12". Wraithguard also get a close combat loadout, entire squad gets 2 attacks base, Power Mauls and Storm Shield equivalent.

Change Vypers to be more like Marine attack bikes (i.e a multi wound model rather than a vehicle), and let them be added to Jetbike units (as Troops) in addition to their existing stand alone Fast choice. If this doesn't happen Jetbikes need some more weapon upgrade options beyond just the underslung Cannons. In general a few new weapons on options would be nice, a Multi Melta equivilant, a light D Cannon and a light Prism Cannon being the obvious candidates.

Reapers either gain some ability to move and fire, or my prefered option which would be to just give them Missile Launchers again. They are described as the long range Aspect, so imo it should be possible to set them up to either smash infantry or vehicles depending on what you give them.

Wraithlord gets a slight base points drop, but can then take Aspect Warrior upgrades and equipment options for reasonable points cost. Banshee Aspect for the Wraithlord gives Sword, Fleet and an uber Banshee Mask, Scorpion gives Stealth, Chainsword (possibly giving some form of anti horde sweep attack like Seth) and uber Mandiblaster. Dragon replaces arm Flamers with Meltagun and Tank Hunters. Hawk gives Jump Pack/Wings and Grenade (Haywire?) Launcher. Avenger gives re-rolls with Shuriken Weaponry and re-rolls Wraithsight. Reaper gives additional heavy weapon and ability to fire more than 2 weapons per turn. Some of these should obviously put the Lord in the 200pt range (Jump Pack Dreadknight is comparable), but would seriously add to the flavour of Wraithlords. Wraithsight should also probably change to WS1 in combat rather than auto hit (but otherwise can't do anything other than shoot the closest target).

Vehicles all need a major points drop, both in base cost and weaponry. A Chimera is 55pts with two very solid weapons by default, add 5pts per armour value, -5 for removing the 2nd weapon (Catapults might as well not be there), +5 to twin link the main weapon, 10pts for Fast and 10pts for the Shields and you end up with imo a good base price of 80-85pts for a Serpent including its weapon. The once you drop all the weapon upgrade by 15pts you end up with a solid transport again that might actually see some use in the infantry heavy environment of 6th. Assault ramps either needs to be an (expensive) upgrade, or an Aspect power, Eldar simply can't stand around waiting to get shot. In addition to the Serpent a Venom like transport would also be nice to see.

It should go without saying that Eldar get 1-2 new fliers, hopefully one in Heavy and one in Fast so they can rule the skies like the do in the fluff.

Of course this is all just wishlisting, because by all accounts the Eldar codex (along with the Daemon and Tau books) has already been written, its just waiting for a release slot.

Chaos Space Marine icons aren't the result of many cycles of dedicated training, it is a psychic artefact which emanates power from the chaos gods. The Chaos icons are much more similar to Shimmershields.

--

Here's the Eldar psychic powers I've written down in my document:

Portents
Primaris: Doom. 24" Malediction. Any weapon attacking the afflicted unit is treated as if it had Shred special rule.
1: Despair. 24" Malediction. Afflicted unit suffers a one point penalty to leadership and initiative to a minimum of 1 and does not gain bonuses from assaulting.
2: Fortune. 12" Blessing. Affected unit gains 3 counters, each counter may be spent to re-roll a single dice that any member of that unit rolled for any reason.
3: Competence. 12" Blessing. Models affected have their weapon skill and ballistics skill increased by 1. Multiple applications are not cumulative.
4: Eldritch Storm. 24" Witchfire. S8 Ap3 Assault 3, Skyfire, Intercept.
5: Destructor. 18" Witchfire. S5 Ap3 Blast, Soul Blaze.
6: Mind War: Focused Witchfire 24". Afflicted model suffers Perils of the Warp.

My thoughts on Fortune is simply thus: it's got to go. It's too powerful and is holding the codex back. From day one it's been designed around the thought that each and every unit has access to Fortune, meaning each and every unit is too weak and relies on the 120 point Farseer Crutch.
This new fortune is not as individually powerful as Doom, Prescience, or any of the other re-rolls, but this one can be used to change a Vehicle Shaken to a Vehicle Destroyed and then the next round save the psycher from Death By Missile Launcher by re-rolling his, and only his, invulnerable save. Pay some power for a lot of versatility.
I'm debating with myself whether this new Fortune or the old Doom should be primaris.

---

Powerguy: The problem with the Wraithlord is that he's emotionally crippled. He doesn't see the world as he used to, his reflexes are bound to that of his new body, and his motivation to fight is simply duty. He's literally a ghost of what he used to be, and only the strongest of souls can actually motivate (that word is more appropriate than you may realise in this case) the Wraithlord body to action.

In the end it all comes down to whether the Bonesingers would mount the equipment to the Wraithlord. Personally I don't think the codex would benefit from a Wraithlord in such a way and would like to keep him simple. Maybe even simple enough that you'd be able to get them in squads of 1-3.

There's a problem with the Venom. That problem is called Fire Dragons. I'll let you do the math on why Craftworld Eldar shouldn't have open-topped transports

rohansoldier wrote:
Yes I think Intercept would be the perfect choice for allowing Hawks to use their grenades on fliers and FMC.

As someone else said, all Exarch powers should become squad upgrades though. There is no way that experienced soldiers like Aspect Warriors forget all their special training because their boss takes a bullet to the head. It just makes no sense!

That being said, do CSM units lose their benefits of icons if the icon bearer is killed? Surely someone else would just pick it up like a heavy or special weapon?

I definitely agree with you there

Guardians - To keep the Eldar feel make them Troops outside of the FOC. You qualify for taking a guardian unit for any non-vehicle/non-HQ you have in the army.
Either 1 platform or 1 special weapon per 5. May be taken as a heavy choice to qualify for heavy weapons platform.
Reduce cost of guardians to 6.

Warlocks - Increase value and cost. Simplify Psychic abilities... Make warlocks base Ld 9 perhaps base attacks 2.
Embolden - Ld 10 and reroll failed psychic tests.
Destructor - Hvy flamer template and +1 S to farseer attack spells.
Enhance - +1 I, +1 WS, Perhaps +1 A (does not stack)
Conceal - Shroud, 5+ Invulnerable

Farseer spells - Mind war - As now.
Fortune - 5++ Invulnerable Save or +1 to Invulnerable Save
Doom - As now or Fleshbane
Guide - +1 WS
Eldritch Storm - S3 AP5 Large Blast (can now be modified by Destructor Warlocks)

These changes get rid of all rerolls except for Embolden rerolls for psychic tests and Doom if you don't go with Fleshbane.

Phoenix Lords - Unique but upgrade to Exarchs instead of HQ choice. +1 S +1 A +1 Ld and Fearless to squad.
Perhaps make a phoenix lord qualify the squad attached as a troop choice - allowing for Biel Tan

Wraithlord - +1 A and Construct special rules.
Construct gets FNP and immune to poison weapons.
Sword - Reroll hits and armorbane.
2 Weapons of same type - Either 50% discount for TL weapon or make 2 weapons no longer qualify as TL and ability to fire separate.

Wraithguard- Construct special rule

Vehicles - ALL vehicles BS 4.
Spirit Stone - 5+ restore 1 Hull Point. Stun equals shaken
Holofield - Shroud to vehicle
Star Engine - 12" movement instead of firing
Vector Engine - Reroll dangerous terrain
Crystal Targeting Matrix - Grant unit Interceptor special rule

Aspect warriors- Minimum squad size + exarch with abilities required.

Dire Avengers - Defend - Defensive grenades and Offensive Grenade+ Stubborn.
Bladestorm -as now or Overwatch at BS. No fire in next turn.
Fire Dragon - Tank Hunter - As Now
Crack Shot - As Now
Striking Scorpion - Gains Fleet and offensive grenades.
Stealth - Infiltrate and immune to difficult terrain.
Shadow- Shroud
Howling Banshee - Mask qualifies as offensive grenade, strikes first and negates enemy overwatch.
Acrobatics - Qualifies unit as being able to assault out of any vehicle as if open topped.
Withdraw - Gains Hit and Run
Dark Reaper - Slow and Purposeful
May chose 1 or the other:
Quick shot - +1 RoF
Crack shot - Ignore cover save
Reaper launcher changed to ROF 1 S7 AP3
Shining Spears - Change laser lance from shooting weapon to 1 S6 AP2 attack delivered like Reaver attack.
Skilled rider
Hit and Run

 Mahtamori wrote:
Chaos Space Marine icons aren't the result of many cycles of dedicated training, it is a psychic artefact which emanates power from the chaos gods. The Chaos icons are much more similar to Shimmershields.

--

Here's the Eldar psychic powers I've written down in my document:

Portents
Primaris: Doom. 24" Malediction. Any weapon attacking the afflicted unit is treated as if it had Shred special rule.
1: Despair. 24" Malediction. Afflicted unit suffers a one point penalty to leadership and initiative to a minimum of 1 and does not gain bonuses from assaulting.
2: Fortune. 12" Blessing. Affected unit gains 3 counters, each counter may be spent to re-roll a single dice that any member of that unit rolled for any reason.
3: Competence. 12" Blessing. Models affected have their weapon skill and ballistics skill increased by 1. Multiple applications are not cumulative.
4: Eldritch Storm. 24" Witchfire. S8 Ap3 Assault 3, Skyfire, Intercept.
5: Destructor. 18" Witchfire. S5 Ap3 Blast, Soul Blaze.
6: Mind War: Focused Witchfire 24". Afflicted model suffers Perils of the Warp.

My thoughts on Fortune is simply thus: it's got to go. It's too powerful and is holding the codex back. From day one it's been designed around the thought that each and every unit has access to Fortune, meaning each and every unit is too weak and relies on the 120 point Farseer Crutch.
This new fortune is not as individually powerful as Doom, Prescience, or any of the other re-rolls, but this one can be used to change a Vehicle Shaken to a Vehicle Destroyed and then the next round save the psycher from Death By Missile Launcher by re-rolling his, and only his, invulnerable save. Pay some power for a lot of versatility.
I'm debating with myself whether this new Fortune or the old Doom should be primaris.

---

Powerguy: The problem with the Wraithlord is that he's emotionally crippled. He doesn't see the world as he used to, his reflexes are bound to that of his new body, and his motivation to fight is simply duty. He's literally a ghost of what he used to be, and only the strongest of souls can actually motivate (that word is more appropriate than you may realise in this case) the Wraithlord body to action.

In the end it all comes down to whether the Bonesingers would mount the equipment to the Wraithlord. Personally I don't think the codex would benefit from a Wraithlord in such a way and would like to keep him simple. Maybe even simple enough that you'd be able to get them in squads of 1-3.

There's a problem with the Venom. That problem is called Fire Dragons. I'll let you do the math on why Craftworld Eldar shouldn't have open-topped transports

On the whole those psychic powers you have listed are massively inferior to the rulebook ones. Mind War does one wound max (have to hit and could be LoS'd), Destructor becomes a small blast thereby making it terrible (just take Psychic Shriek instead...), Competence is largely pointless because you can just take Prescience to get re-rolls anyway (and 4's with re-rolls is better than 3's), Fortune takes a massive and unneeded nerf, Despair is terrible (compare it to Terrify for example). Eldritch Storm stands out as being solid simply because it has Skyfire, compared to the likes of Bolt of Tzeentch its far superior, and Doom is still solid (although it would be easily to just leave it as re-rolls to wound against the unit). The issues with Fortune have nothing to do with the power itself, its the stupid combos you can do with it because of edition changes that weren't forseen. Simply rewording it so that you can only use the re-rolls for Eldar units removes the worst of the 2++ stupidity and putting it onto a table rather than an automatic purchased power is also a massive nerf because you have to do silly things to ensure you get it. Once you reduce the attractiveness of Biker Councils (primarily by making splitting off Warlocks more attractive) there really aren't many problems with it anymore, Marine players have no right to complain about T3 4+ save models getting re-rolled saves. If you did change it to the way you have suggested I would make those 3 counters global player re-rolls rather than a targeted unit.

Wraithlords are still going to have Wraithsight and I4. Stronger souls will have more success with a Wraith construct, so an Exarch soul controlling one should do pretty well. Eldar have all kinds of different fighting styles, so its not that hard to see a Wraithlord controlled by a Banshee Exarch getting a big ass sword so they can fight in a style they are used to.

How could AV10 Open topped vehicles ever be a problem for any codex? Who cares if Dragons (remember these are 20+pts Dragons, possibly with Heat Lances, that have minimal use in 6th because S6 can just glance things to death now) would be able to fire out the top, it can still be blasted off the face to the planet BY BOLTERS. Eldar desperately need another transport to complement the expensive Serpent and they also need better access to assault vehicles because they simply cannot stand around in the open inside rapid fire range. Those two together just scream 'small open topped transport', its something the codex would really benefit from and certainly isn't going to break anything.

Small, open-topped transports don't mesh with the Eldar style of combat fluff-wise, though. They are all about maximizing protection and minimizing risk, and an open-topped paper thin boat rushing towards the enemy full of Eldar lives is not something they would do.

I have an idea for Fortune. What if it made a unit's Armor Saves into Invulnerable Saves, and if the unit already had an Invulnerable Save (say like Rune Armor) they could reroll that save.

This would eliminate the rerollable cover saves and make it extremely unlikely rerollable 2+ saves would be possible, while still keeping the flavor the power already has.

Small, open-topped transports don't mesh with the Eldar style of combat fluff-wise, though. They are all about maximizing protection and minimizing risk, and an open-topped paper thin boat rushing towards the enemy full of Eldar lives is not something they would do.

Yeah, open-topped is about the opposite that you can get from Eldar vehicle technology.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Small, open-topped transports don't mesh with the Eldar style of combat fluff-wise, though. They are all about maximizing protection and minimizing risk, and an open-topped paper thin boat rushing towards the enemy full of Eldar lives is not something they would do.

Yeah, open-topped is about the opposite that you can get from Eldar vehicle technology.

Yes and no, they favour protection more so than Dark Eldar but they do that with deception and technology rather than armour plate. All it would need is some form of Energy Field or Holo-field and suddenly its not really a paper plane anymore. Eldar are also an army which focuses on rapid and overwhelming strikes on isolated units with specialised units, which a rapid assault transport would be perfect for. As long as it stays as a 6 man max transport its not going to be that threatening purely because 5 man units of Banshees etc aren't going to punch massive holes in things.

Powerguy wrote:
On the whole those psychic powers you have listed are massively inferior to the rulebook ones. Mind War does one wound max (have to hit and could be LoS'd), Destructor becomes a small blast thereby making it terrible (just take Psychic Shriek instead...), Competence is largely pointless because you can just take Prescience to get re-rolls anyway (and 4's with re-rolls is better than 3's), Fortune takes a massive and unneeded nerf, Despair is terrible (compare it to Terrify for example). Eldritch Storm stands out as being solid simply because it has Skyfire, compared to the likes of Bolt of Tzeentch its far superior, and Doom is still solid (although it would be easily to just leave it as re-rolls to wound against the unit). The issues with Fortune have nothing to do with the power itself, its the stupid combos you can do with it because of edition changes that weren't forseen. Simply rewording it so that you can only use the re-rolls for Eldar units removes the worst of the 2++ stupidity and putting it onto a table rather than an automatic purchased power is also a massive nerf because you have to do silly things to ensure you get it. Once you reduce the attractiveness of Biker Councils (primarily by making splitting off Warlocks more attractive) there really aren't many problems with it anymore, Marine players have no right to complain about T3 4+ save models getting re-rolled saves. If you did change it to the way you have suggested I would make those 3 counters global player re-rolls rather than a targeted unit.

Wraithlords are still going to have Wraithsight and I4. Stronger souls will have more success with a Wraith construct, so an Exarch soul controlling one should do pretty well. Eldar have all kinds of different fighting styles, so its not that hard to see a Wraithlord controlled by a Banshee Exarch getting a big ass sword so they can fight in a style they are used to.

How could AV10 Open topped vehicles ever be a problem for any codex? Who cares if Dragons (remember these are 20+pts Dragons, possibly with Heat Lances, that have minimal use in 6th because S6 can just glance things to death now) would be able to fire out the top, it can still be blasted off the face to the planet BY BOLTERS. Eldar desperately need another transport to complement the expensive Serpent and they also need better access to assault vehicles because they simply cannot stand around in the open inside rapid fire range. Those two together just scream 'small open topped transport', its something the codex would really benefit from and certainly isn't going to break anything.

Mind War: It does one wound that can't be saved at all. The current allows both Invul and Cover.
Destructor: Psychic Shriek is only 12". Destructor is designed to be good against power armour with Soul Blaze making it decent against hordes as well. I need to take a peek at the Pyromancy skills for a better design, but Psychic Shriek is massively inferior to this Destructor in my experience, unless you set your farseer up for it.
Competence: Should be initiative as well. It's actually designed for synergy with Prescience.
Despair: Terrify doesn't reduce enemy psycher's ability to use their powers. And they synergies. Stick both on for greatly increased effect on both.
Fortune: My least favourite of my powers. The original must go, though, or go up to WC2. It just makes the Farseer too good. Even without it affecting Dark Eldar, Fortune makes the Farseer necessary each and every Eldar army.
Eldritch: Thanks.
Doom: It's exactly the same effect. I'd actually want it to say Tank Hunter as well, but the wording looks odd.

Eldar units: The key here is to bring these psychic powers in line with the current ones, that means you have to design them with Dark Eldar and Tau in mind as well.
Wraithlords: Do they even inter Exarchs in Wraiths? Going by Path of the Warrior, Wraith constructs doesn't even appear to be on the chart for an Exarch.
Venoms: In combination with reducing Fire Dragons to Heat Lances, then yes, it could work. However, Fire Dragons at 16 points with proper guns do not need to get more expensive in this edition since they are going back to how they were in 3rd (useless) and they were 17 points then. Eldar, however, do not have anythign but Dragons who benefit from open topped Cap 6 transports.

Psychic Shriek ignores cover and all armour, which lets it punch through anything. As such it compares pretty favourably to both your version of Mind War and Destructor. In practice a small blast is terrible against hordes, whereas a template is usually pretty solid (its like three times the size). I guess my main point is that I would prefer the existing flamer version of Destructor than a small blast one.

Even if you made competence I10 with free grenades Competence is a so-so power, most Eldar hit first already (and all the assault units have grenades). Obviously Despair and Terrify combo nicely (on the off chance you can get them both) but the point is simply being -1Ld isn't particularly impressive. Psyker Battle Squads can get -8Ld remember.

My suggestion for Fortune is to make it the Primaris Power, and upon a successful casting the player gets D6 free re-rolls which can be used for anything until the start of the next Eldar turn. I completely disagree about the strength of Fortune though, throughout all of 5th edition I never ran Fortune once and never missed it. Only a few Eldar builds make use of it (Council, Wraithguard blob and now Harliestar) because for the rest of the army its not actually that helpful. Farseers are necessary in every Eldar army mostly because a) they need an HQ and Seers are the cheapest and b) they bring Runes of Warding which lets you basically ignore any psychic threats.
Btw as much as I like your Eldritch Storm there is no way it will be that good (even with Warp Charge 2), stuff with Skyfire is rare and multishot S8 with Intercept is just not going to happen.

My point with Doom is that there is no need to change the wording. Currently it works on absolutely everything, including vehicle explosions and other 'neutral' damage sources. It would also remove Shred as a design option for Shuirken or Mono filament weaponry.

Path of the Warrior isn't really a good example in this case. Not every Exarch ends up merging with a Phoenix Lord. Its not much of a tweak to the fluff in any case, and from a 'rule of cool' perspective I think its something GW will consider.

I would happily bet money that if Dragons still have Meltaguns they will cost more than they do currently in the next codex. They haven't gotten any weaker in this edition, if anything they are stronger because AP1 just crushes things and vehicles die faster anyway. The only reason they aren't as useful is because of a shift away from mech heavy lists, and that isn't enough to drop them in price. They are still an 80pt unit that can reliably drop any vehicle in the game, which is way too cheap.

Dragons don't really benefit that much from an opened topped transport. I am assuming that in addition to an open topped transport all the assault aspects would get a major boost. Something like 5 Banshees (including Exarch) + a character should be enough to wreck most Marine units.

I would really like to see both a heavy and fast attack flyer for the eldar. The fire dragons are good for what they do but don't forget that they are basically a sacrifice group so if their is an increased points cost i would like to see their survivability go up by a bit. I also really would love to see different wraiths from different aspects, and aspects as troops. Something else would be to pull back some harlequins with a Hq for them and what not to make their themed lists work a little better. I would also love to see Assault vehicles and think that fortune is great and if anything should just be allowed for eldar units only to solve any problems with shenanigans. You can only hope that gw doesn't rape our book with both point hikes and fluff destruction.

Improvements? Hmmm......

1) Fix Guardians. When I say fix them I don't mean cheaper, I mean better. Either make them fit the fluff of being post aspect and give thembetter stat-lines or change the fluff to make them pre-aspect but with tendencies in favouring a specific path. This boil down to Guardian Defenders and Storm Guardians having slightly different but still better than current stat lines.

Also, make Guardian units number 5-15 with access to special weapons or weapon platforms following a 1 for every 5 models rule.

2) Aspect specific stat-lines. Current stats make no sense when you see a cc aspect that shoots as good as the ranged one and vice versa.

3) Each Aspect gets one of the old Exarch powers unit wide and then have each of the various exarch types be able to choose(purchase) an optional aspect specific focus.

4) Fire Dragons have choice between melta and flamer but choice is unit wide not single model.

5) Eldar vehicles need minor point reduction but Vehicle upgrades need major point reduction and rule improvement.

6) Swooping Hawks, Shining Spears and Warp Spiders all need to be better defined as to their roles.
Imo,
Swooping Hawks should be Aerial Assault Specialist(Assault Grenadiers) or forward spotter teams(Reduce cover saves on enemy units within 18"
Shining Spears should be Anti-TEQ and Flank attack specialists. A jetbike assault unit whose members are all armed Star Lances(Plasma lances).
Warp Spiders really only need a tweak to their weapon rules. Something that makes them either a Rapid Dominance shooting unit or something that makes them a grwat delaying/tarpitting unit. Maybe both. Personally would like to see the squad have poor cc ability but able to teleport out of cc. When teleporting out of cc they should be able to drag any enemy models in base to base into the warp on a d6 roll of 6.

7) Some mechanism that allows for viable craftworld specific lists

8)Wraith lords lose BL's, ML's, and Star Cannons but gain D-Cannon, Vibro Cannon and Death(Shadow?) Weaver

9) Pheonix Lords dropped 10% in costs and are outside of the FOC.

10) Vypers either lose open-topped or get Venom transport capacity......maybe some type of bonus movement for assault units that have an "Acrobatic" rule.

11) War Walkers should be moved to Fast Attack

12) Shuriken Catapults- increase range to 18". DA Shuricat should disapear. Aspect abilities should be as much about training as the weapons

13) Re- work theEldar Psychic powers lists

14) AA abilty of some sort

15) Sexy Aircraft that looks as good as their DE cousins or like the FW ones

These would make me happy


Oh yeah,....Jetbike Harlequins

 Mahtamori wrote:

4: Eldritch Storm. 24" Witchfire. S8 Ap3 Assault 3, Skyfire, Intercept.

This is several orders of magnitude more powerful than any other psykic shooting attack. Compare to doombolt(which is ok not great) Str8 ap1 assault 1, extra explosion distance. This gives you 3 times as many shots and you get the rarest and most powerful skyfire and intercept.

How about str5 ap- assault 2 haywire skyfire intercept. Still very very powerful but not the, 3 missile launchers with skyfire auto take.

 Mahtamori wrote:

6: Mind War: Focused Witchfire 24". Afflicted model suffers Perils of the Warp.

perils is just 1 wound that cannot be saved right? Seems too simple
I would rather something a little random, like a ld test on 3d6, if you beat the LD, take 1 wound, if you beat LD by 3 or more, take 1 wound no save. triple 6 and the model is killed outright. triple one and the farseer takes a wound.

Otherwise I am a fan.

I would like to see eldar guardian squad be able to take two heavy weopons platforms for every ten models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would like to see eldar guardian squad be able to take two heavy weopons platforms for every ten models.

 Exergy wrote:

 Mahtamori wrote:

4: Eldritch Storm. 24" Witchfire. S8 Ap3 Assault 3, Skyfire, Intercept.

This is several orders of magnitude more powerful than any other psykic shooting attack. Compare to doombolt(which is ok not great) Str8 ap1 assault 1, extra explosion distance. This gives you 3 times as many shots and you get the rarest and most powerful skyfire and intercept.

How about str5 ap- assault 2 haywire skyfire intercept. Still very very powerful but not the, 3 missile launchers with skyfire auto take.

It's not an auto-take because these are generated and not chosen. I meant it to be good against most things. It's not AP1, but what makes it good is the range. Maybe put it down to two shots. At your suggestion I'd say 3 shots or even D6+X shots. Note that Intercept only allows it to be shot at ground as well. What I'd really want is a cylinder blast sort of thing at lower strength, worse AP, and possibly haywire that also hits air, but there's no real good way to implement with current rules.

 Mahtamori wrote:

6: Mind War: Focused Witchfire 24". Afflicted model suffers Perils of the Warp.

perils is just 1 wound that cannot be saved right? Seems too simple
I would rather something a little random, like a ld test on 3d6, if you beat the LD, take 1 wound, if you beat LD by 3 or more, take 1 wound no save. triple 6 and the model is killed outright. triple one and the farseer takes a wound.

Otherwise I am a fan.

I prefer less random. True, I'd like it to strike the leadership stat, but at the same time I wanted to get the rolls down as well as keep it simple. It's a sniper power and it's also assumed to be a rather high chance of getting a large number of Warlocks running around which can get this. Perils work excellent in that it doesn't allow a model to save itself, but is limited effectiveness against real characters and at the same time it really says "you were hit in the mind". Of all the permutations I've ran through, Perils is just about the only thing I'm comfortable with that doesn't do one of the big no-nos: require lots of rolls, risk being overpowered, feel strange, require two warp charges, and so on.
Going by your suggestion, a perhaps easier version is to put it like thus "adding the difference between the Eldar Psycher's LD and the afflicted model, the target takes a wound for each roll of three dice of 3 or lower". The expected outcome here is 1,5 wounds unless you strike a non-HQ, but with this version you'll have to actively state whether you disallow cover, armour and/or invulnerable saves (and the latter would be a rather big "no, you shouldn't, there's too many wounds potential")
The Farseer already risks a wound on his leadership test, so that can be left out. Also, whether the Ghost Helm should be standard is also up for question.

In either case, let's just face it, witchfire is not this edition's high point. Tzeentch powers have been received with little enthusiasm and pyromancy is rather sad (although I think this is due to Pyromancy being designed with only a Librarian burning heretic traitor guard in mind since nearly everything is AP5 and ignoring cover)

P.S. Regarding Mind War: I hope it won't become too similar to Psychic Shriek.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bleumike wrote:
I would like to see eldar guardian squad be able to take two heavy weopons platforms for every ten models.

This is much more in line with other armies. I'd still say "Engineer" and give them a lot of extra toys. The heavy weapons aren't all they can be used for.

I like the idea of a bonesinger upgrade on all vehicles that gives it the it will not die special rule.

Runes of warding go to range 12", perils on any double on the 3 dice, not over 12 perils as it is now.

Runes of witnessing: allows you to 're-roll psychic tests

Spirit helm: gives adamantium will farseer and unit. Ignore perils on 5+

All wraiths have 3+ / 5++, wraithguard dropped to t5, gain fleet, lose wraith sight, lords gain +1 attack (3 standard) and may upgrade to aspect wraith lords.

Wraithseer added

Hornet added

Firestorm added

Wasp added as option

Falcons dropped in price, assault ramp added as option.

All eldar weapons go down in price

War walkers weapons are twin linked not 2 different guns.

Thats all for now