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I am starting an imperial guard army which includes a CCS with plasmas and a chimera, Marbo, 5 veteran squads with plasmas and some meltas in ML/HF chimeras, and 2 vendettas.

I have 755 points left to spend on Heavy Support and maybe fortifications. I am wondering what the most effective/competitive setup is for mech IG to compliment the rest of my list.

Things I would take:
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Demolisher
Griffon
Manticore

Out of these 4 options, what would be the best combination of them that is no more that 755 points for all-corners competitive play, and if its less what can I add to the rest of my list?

Any help is appreciated, thanks!

Sir Mammoth wrote:
I am starting an imperial guard army which includes a CCS with plasmas and a chimera, Marbo, 5 veteran squads with plasmas and some meltas in ML/HF chimeras, and 2 vendettas.

I have 755 points left to spend on Heavy Support and maybe fortifications. I am wondering what the most effective/competitive setup is for mech IG to compliment the rest of my list.

Things I would take:
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Demolisher
Griffon
Manticore

Out of these 4 options, what would be the best combination of them that is no more that 755 points for all-corners competitive play, and if its less what can I add to the rest of my list?

Any help is appreciated, thanks!

I personally like the 2 Demolisher/Manticore combo. Lot of Str 10.
Another option would be the Medusa. 2 Medusa/Manticore keeps everything
AV 12, you get the same amount of str 10 and save 60 more points that you
could dump into troops.

With the left over 265(or 325) points, I'd add either more vets and/or another Vendetta.
5 man Stormtrooper suicide squads can work well with Mech IG too.

Manticores, Medusae Heavy Artillery Carriages, and Leman Russ Demolishers are IG's best Heavy Support.

Yeah I love the Leman Russ Battle Tanks and Demolishers, I think I am going to take 2 LRBTs and 1 Demolisher. I am still not convinced on the third as they all seem so great. Which ones generally more effective: 1 Manticore or 2 Griffons?

Sir Mammoth wrote:
Yeah I love the Leman Russ Battle Tanks and Demolishers, I think I am going to take 2 LRBTs and 1 Demolisher. I am still not convinced on the third as they all seem so great. Which ones generally more effective: 1 Manticore or 2 Griffons?

Generally, a Manticore.

If you are specifically facing hordes, or if your army needs dedicated anti-horde, two Griffons.

LRBT's are rather lacklustre though, as you will eventually discover.

They simply don't have very much to offer that other weapons won't do better.

Sir Mammoth wrote:
Yeah I love the Leman Russ Battle Tanks and Demolishers, I think I am going to take 2 LRBTs and 1 Demolisher. I am still not convinced on the third as they all seem so great. Which ones generally more effective: 1 Manticore or 2 Griffons?

Depends on what you're shooting at? Manticore is more of an "All comers" choice. To me the Griffon is more specialized.

What do you think is a good replacement for a LRBT then?

Sir Mammoth wrote:
What do you think is a good replacement for a LRBT then?

Medusa, Deomlisher, Manticore, Exterminator, Executioner to name a few.

Sir Mammoth wrote:
What do you think is a good replacement for a LRBT then?

If you need long-range anti-MEQ, a Basilisk artillery carriage. Or, if your LGS doesn't allow FW, then a Basilisk.

If you simply need a medium range heavy-hitter, a Medusa artillery carriage, or if your LGS doesn't allow FW, then a Medusa.

If you really need a LRBT chassis on the board, the Executioner and Demolisher are the best variants. Both offer quite powerful weapons on durable chassis, and frankly outshine the other variants in most lists.

Of course the need for dedicated anti-MEQ is kind of minimal since the OP's list consists of nothing but anti-MEQ units.

OP, what you really need is 3x Manticores. You already have tons of marine killing, and the Manticores give you more long-range anti-tank (since you have no melta this is pretty important) and excellent anti-horde (which you have none of yet).

Wow, i was looking at the basilisk's earthshaker cannon, and Its definitely awesome. i have a few questions though,

1. will the minimum range get in the way?
2. how many?
3. what do you think of parking them behind an aegis defense line, basically doubles their survivability against things that aren't templates.
4. Camo netting? (it seems overpriced to me)

Also, 3 manticores sounds hella good, great anti-horde and anti-tank. is it really as good as it sounds?

Well considering your list is already loaded with anti-MEQ, I'd recommend either some Medusae or Manticores.

The Basilisk are unnecessary.

Manticores are awesome, but three is a bit much.

If you were to go two Manticore, two Medusae, I'm sure you wouldn't be displeased.

And parking artillery behind an Aegis is the best thing to do.

I'm not so sure about the Medusa, don't i have enough short range ap2? I personally like the Demolisher more that the Medusa, Its front armor 14 and it will move before it fires so it has only 6" less range than the Medusa which would have to be behind the defense line.

Is the LRBT really that bad? its the cheapest LR and can be behind the line because of its range and is incredibly survivable with its 4+ cover and AV14

Oh god... please stop with the forge world. Most people in the US have very limited access to FW, and even less tourneys allow them.

Glocknall wrote:
Most people in the US have very limited access to FW

Not true at all. Everyone in the US has complete access to FW, unless they have some bizarre fear of online shopping.

and even less tourneys allow them.

Why should we assume that we're talking about a tournament with non-standard house rules when the OP hasn't said anything about that being the case?

My local gaming group and tournaments that I go to never allow Forge World, so I don't really want to spend a lot of money on FW models


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How about

2 LRBT
1 LR Demolisher
1 Manticore

long/short range anti-vehicle, check
long/short range anti-MEQ, check
anti-horde, check
anti-terminator/HQs, check

But the Medusa is in the Codex....?

Sir Mammoth wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How about

2 LRBT
1 LR Demolisher
1 Manticore

long/short range anti-vehicle, check
long/short range anti-MEQ, check
anti-horde, check
anti-terminator/HQs, check

LRBT's are not very good. Basilisks are better at what you'll be using, which is long-range anti-MEQ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Glocknall wrote:
Oh god... please stop with the forge world. Most people in the US have very limited access to FW, and even less tourneys allow them.

Well, first of all, people in the US have perfectly good access to FW. Plenty of Tournaments allow them. Every tournament I've ever attended has allowed FW, and plenty of GT's are opening up to their rules this year.

Not to mention, you know, you can't really tell us to "stop with the FW". We're not really breaking any rules, and you're not a part of the moderation staff. It's rather impolite to attempt to boss us around. I understand you aren't a fan of Forgeworld, and that is fine, but if it is not presented as a viable option to a poster looking into Heavy Support for the IG codex, then we are keeping from said OP information that he can form his own opinion on, be it positive or negative.

Lastly, no one is forcing FW down the OP's throat. I simply casually suggested it as an option, along with valid non-FW alternatives.

If you need long-range anti-MEQ, a Basilisk artillery carriage. Or, if your LGS doesn't allow FW, then a Basilisk.

So, really, I'm offering a bipartisan opinion, where as you're essentially telling me I have to do it your way. Which one is more unreasonable?

Cheers,
-TheCaptain

You said a couple posts ago that basilisks were unnecessary. The LRBT also can do short range anti-MEQ because it doesn't have a 36"!!! minimum range which is ridiculous. Also the LRBT can be crazy survivable behind an aegis with AV14, plus I have plenty of ap2 already.

Sir Mammoth wrote:
You said a couple posts ago that basilisks were unnecessary. The LRBT also can do short range anti-MEQ because it doesn't have a 36"!!! minimum range which is ridiculous. Also the LRBT can be crazy survivable behind an aegis with AV14, plus I have plenty of ap2 already.

Basilisks are unnecessary because Medusas are better.

But if you are concerned about Medusa short-range, the Basilisk is the place to go.

I believe you are misinterpreting "Minimum range". In 6th, it only means that you scatter the full distance if you fire inside that min-range. You can still fire within 36" Essentially, on a miss, you scatter 3" more. In exchange, you get a significant discount, and the ability to fire out of line-of-sight. And +1 Strength.

Also, yes, you have a good lot of AP2, but not a lot of Ordinance Str10 Range 36" AP2. Demolishers are fine and good, but are normally forced to get in the opponent's face. This can lead to problems.

The Medusa avoids these problems by adding 12" range.

AV14 behind an Aegis is probably just as survivable, if not less, than AV12 behind an Aegis with a Camo net.

Ok, I have been looking into the medusa, it sounds awesome and a replacement for a Demolisher. On the other hand, I am tired of lists that have devastators camping in the back out of range, which the Medusa and Manticore can't deal with. I trust your opinion because I see your posts all over the place about imperial guard and you obviously know whats best, so what do you personally run when you want to play competitively?

I agree that the basilisk is better than a LRBT now, but the Medusa basically has to be stationary, while the Demolisher can at least move up the board.

So what do you think about:
2 Basilisks
1 Demolisher
1 Manticore

Sir Mammoth wrote:
Ok, I have been looking into the medusa, it sounds awesome and a replacement for a Demolisher. On the other hand, I am tired of lists that have devastators camping in the back out of range, which the Medusa and Manticore can't deal with. I trust your opinion because I see your posts all over the place about imperial guard and you obviously know whats best, so what do you personally run when you want to play competitively?

I agree that the basilisk is better than a LRBT now, but the Medusa basically has to be stationary, while the Demolisher can at least move up the board.

So what do you think about:
2 Basilisks
1 Demolisher
1 Manticore

I do like this HS choice better than the others.

And I understand the sentiment regarding Long Fangs/Devastators/Havocs. The Basilisks will mince them up, ignoring any Aegis your opponent puts between you two.

Now, you say this, which actually quite intrigued me: " the Medusa basically has to be stationary, while the Demolisher can at least move up the board."

Now, I encourage you to also look at it from a different perspective: " the Medusa can remain stationary, while the Demolisher has to move up the board."

See what I mean? The Demolisher Vs. Medusa argument comes down to one thing "Is the Demolisher going to be alone mid-field?"

If you are rushing chimeras into your opponent's face, then tacking in a Demolisher or two will help with target saturation, and put the pressure on, drawing anti-tank fire away from your backfield artillery.

However, if you are running a gunline with everything behind an Aegis, and nothing in the midfield but flyers zipping about overhead, then you don't very well want one or two vehicles putzing about the middle of the board, AV14 or not. Gunlines take advantage of the 36" range on the Medusas, able to pop anything even thinking about coming close to your Aegis line.

So to put it simply:
Chimeras + Demolishers =
Gunline + Medusas =

Ok, thanks for the advice, You made some really good points. But I'm not really feeling the Medusa, because in a tournament the Demolisher can be aggressive or defensive (not as defensive as a Medusa, but its alright) I can either do a gunline with this list or rush down the board with my Chimeras and Demolisher, depending on the opponent. The Medusa seems to not fit in when I'm rushing down the board. Plus I like AV14.

Also I had 20 points to spare so I gave the Demolisher a lascannon so it has something to do while it moves up or is waiting for the enemy to arrive.

I am still curious, What do you usually field in a competitive 2000 point game with IG? You seem like an expert so if you swear by the Medusa, and it does epic damage in every game of yours I can't argue with that., is it that much better than a Demolisher?

AV14 behind an Aegis is probably just as survivable, if not less, than AV12 behind an Aegis with a Camo net.

That can't be true. There are several weapons that can't hurt AV14 at all, no matter how much of a cover save it is or isn't getting.

Plus, imagine giving AV14 a camo net, lol.

Don't go with the LRBT. It's definitely the worst russ, and arguably the worst HS option.

The best HS slots at the moment are non-ordnance, sponson-filled russes, and mid-price artillery spam. Medusas, colossuses, basilisks, exterminators, punishers and vanquishers are all fine choices, depending on what you're looking for.

How's this?

HQ:
Company Command Squad w/Chimera
+ 4 Plasma guns

Elites:
Marbo

Troops:
Veterans w/ Chimera
+ 3 Melta guns
Veterans w/ Chimera
+ 3 Melta guns
Veterans w/ Chimera
+ 3 Plasma guns
Veterans w/ Chimera
+ 3 Plasma guns
Veterans w/ Chimera
+ 3 Plasma guns

Fast Attack:
Vendetta
Vendetta

Heavy Support:
2 Basilisks
+ Camo Netting
Leman Russ Demolisher
+ Lascannon (I had 15 points left)
Manticore Rocket Launcher
+ Camo netting

Fortification:
Aegis Defense Line

I'm not the biggest fan of them being all the different types like that. I think you would be better served by the redundancy of 3 russes, or 3 manticores, or 5 lighter artillery pieces instead.

What would you suggest then for an all-corners list?

In your case, I'd probably go for more anti-tank more than for anti-heavy-infantry. Perhaps a bunch of medusas, or some russes with hull lascannons and sponson multimeltas.