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Source article

California's great white sharks now protected by law


A great white shark investigates a fake seal decoy used by U.C. Davis researchers in the Pacific Ocean near San Francisco.
By Sarah Grieco, NBCBayArea.com

Great white sharks off the coast of California gained protection from the California Endangered Species Act Friday.

Three environmental groups asked the California Department of Fish and Wildlife to protect the fish at the beginning of February.
The groups said there are only around 340 great whites in the Northwestern Pacific region, making them in danger of extinction.

Great whites may not be hunted, pursued, or killed under CESA. Anyone caught harming or killing a shark could face criminal prosecution.

Commercial fishing for great whites has been banned in California waters for nearly 20 years, but some exceptions previously existed for research purposes.

Starting March 1, the Fish and Wildlife department will issue permits for scientific research. Fishers will also have to obtain a permit in case of accidental capture of great white sharks.

With CESA protection for great whites, Fish and Wildlife may also decide to deem the species endangered.

The department will conduct a status review of the sharks to determine whether or not it is threatened and expect to make a decision by early 2014.

pic unrelated

Possibly they have migrated away, if so perhaps because there is too much fat content and unnatural food additives in the local human population and the Great Whites are off to find a balanced diet.

Actually Great White sightings have become more diversified in the last ten or fifteen years, they are spreading out, and are now seen off the coasts of many European countries, amongst others though not in large numbers.

Waters outside the GW's normal turf have been warming up, I wouldn't be surprised if they've spread out to less likely to be killed by humans hunting grounds.

 Orlanth wrote:
Possibly they have migrated away, if so perhaps because there is too much fat content and unnatural food additives in the local human population and the Great Whites are off to find a balanced diet.

Actually Great White sightings have become more diversified in the last ten or fifteen years, they are spreading out, and are now seen off the coasts of many European countries, amongst others though not in large numbers.

Brilliant!

Hopefully it's not too late. I thought Great Whites were already protected as an endangered species.

I think the reaction of the coast guard is pathetic here. While I agree that it is tragic that the man has died, and a family has lost it's father, it really isn't rocket science to know that you are putting yourself in danger by swimming in these waters. To be fair the Shark to Human kill ratio is incredibly low on the sharks end, so I guess this is why these beaches prove to be so popular. Why can't people realise that this is the price you pay when you enter an environment were you aren't the apex predator?

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/27/world/asia/new-zealand-shark-attack/index.html

It's a complete joke that people make these creatures out to be monstrous. Considering how many sharks are slaughtered a year by people.

Thrown back into the sea, finless.



For more information on these spectacular animals; This is a fairly good documentary if any of you are interested. It was on Channel 4 here in the UK two-ish years ago.

What is it with the far eastern countries finding the least ecologically suitable things to eat or use as impotence remedies.

"Wow, that tiger burger and tamarin fries was awesome, I'm off to the toilet to do a few lines of rhino horn!"

To be fair, I don't think westerners would have thought about ecological suitability when hunting the precursor to the domestic cow.

It fething gaks me up the wall when i see fin less sharks dumped in the ocean. Boils my blood.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What is it with the far eastern countries finding the least ecologically suitable things to eat or use as impotence remedies.

"Wow, that tiger burger and tamarin fries was awesome, I'm off to the toilet to do a few lines of rhino horn!"

"Yep. In fact, taking a trait that exists among a portion of a population and then extending it as a descriptor to the whole population is pretty much what racism is. " Quote from sebster.

Yet I got a warning.

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What is it with the far eastern countries finding the least ecologically suitable things to eat or use as impotence remedies.

"Wow, that tiger burger and tamarin fries was awesome, I'm off to the toilet to do a few lines of rhino horn!"

"Yep. In fact, taking a trait that exists among a portion of a population and then extending it as a descriptor to the whole population is pretty much what racism is. " Quote from sebster.

Yet I got a warning.

Except that between Chinese herbal medicines, shark fin soup and Japanese tastes for rare or exotic seafoods, (and other countries with a culture of these 'medicines' or 'delicacies' ) many species are being pushed to extinction. I make absolutely no comment on someone's race and every criticism based on the trends or cultural insistence on pushing groups of animals into annilihation purely for rarified tastes or non-scientific 'medicines'. I can criticize the culture without attacking the race of people who live there.

You are, of course, welcome to report my comment to a mod for assessment, but it was not racism.

 Snrub wrote:
It fething gaks me up the wall when i see fin less sharks dumped in the ocean. Boils my blood.

Why don't you and a group of fellow believers put your money where your mouth is and start blowing up fishing boats?

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What is it with the far eastern countries finding the least ecologically suitable things to eat or use as impotence remedies.

"Wow, that tiger burger and tamarin fries was awesome, I'm off to the toilet to do a few lines of rhino horn!"

"Yep. In fact, taking a trait that exists among a portion of a population and then extending it as a descriptor to the whole population is pretty much what racism is. " Quote from sebster.

Yet I got a warning.

Except that between Chinese herbal medicines, shark fin soup and Japanese tastes for rare or exotic seafoods, (and other countries with a culture of these 'medicines' or 'delicacies' ) many species are being pushed to extinction. I make absolutely no comment on someone's race and every criticism based on the trends or cultural insistence on pushing groups of animals into annilihation purely for rarified tastes or non-scientific 'medicines'. I can criticize the culture without attacking the race of people who live there.

You are, of course, welcome to report my comment to a mod for assessment, but it was not racism.

Oh I find nothing wrong with your comment, in fact I wholeheartedly agree. It's disgusting what they do to animals in the name of "medicine". Rather I was just pointing out a double standard. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain how I'm wrong.

On Topic did you catch the PBS documentary on the ivory trade in China just the other night? I left absolutely disgusted after watching it.

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain how I'm wrong.

MGS already did. Meanwhile, please stop hijacking the thread.

On-topic, was anyone actually hunting great white sharks in American waters before this law was passed?

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

Oh I find nothing wrong with your comment, in fact I wholeheartedly agree. It's disgusting what they do to animals in the name of "medicine". Rather I was just pointing out a double standard. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain how I'm wrong.

On Topic did you catch the PBS documentary on the ivory trade in China just the other night? I left absolutely disgusted after watching it.

No, I can't stand watching that stuff any more. It just drives me insane.

Watching what's happening day after day to species, to the planet, to our future... It's the prime reason Mrs S and I decided to not have kids, I wouldn't want to bring a child into this world, we're thinking even if a pandemic doesn't sweep the human race soon, then it's going to take a nosedive in the next 50 years for everyone anyway, given the rate of population expansion and we'd rather not subject a new human to it.

I'm hoping she and I are dead and buried when it happens, whatever 'it' is going to be...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
What is it with the far eastern countries finding the least ecologically suitable things to eat or use as impotence remedies.

"Wow, that tiger burger and tamarin fries was awesome, I'm off to the toilet to do a few lines of rhino horn!"

"Yep. In fact, taking a trait that exists among a portion of a population and then extending it as a descriptor to the whole population is pretty much what racism is. " Quote from sebster.

Yet I got a warning.

Except that between Chinese herbal medicines, shark fin soup and Japanese tastes for rare or exotic seafoods, (and other countries with a culture of these 'medicines' or 'delicacies' ) many species are being pushed to extinction. I make absolutely no comment on someone's race and every criticism based on the trends or cultural insistence on pushing groups of animals into annilihation purely for rarified tastes or non-scientific 'medicines'. I can criticize the culture without attacking the race of people who live there.

You are, of course, welcome to report my comment to a mod for assessment, but it was not racism.

Well, as someone from China myself . . .

- Most herbal medicines will not have tiger willy or things in them. It's why they're called herbal medicines. They have herbs. Few medicines will have animal parts in them.
- Shark Fin soup is not something that we'll eat all the time. It's eaten on a special occasion. Granted, one billion people eating it, on average, less than once every two years maximum (and many probably do not even do that, I for one haven't had it in about eight years, plus it's very expensive compared to, say, Char Siu Fan) does equal a lot of dead sharks, but let's put things into perspective - it's not something that everyone will eat a lot, and it's a consequence of Chinese overpopulation.
- Some Japanese do like their exotic seafoods, but like Chinese people eating Shark's Fin soup, they're not going to be sitting down every Sunday evening to eat whale sushi with a side of dolphin sashimi.
- A lot of the things that you mentioned are traditional cultural things. A thousand years ago, Sharks and Tigers were probably a lot more common than they are now. The Tiger was seen as a strong and powerful animal, for example. I don't see what's wrong with that.
- Am I allowed to criticise Europeans from eating Persian Fallow Deer? You probably eat it as much as I eat Shark Fin soup or my Japanese friend eats bottle-nosed dolphin.
- As for your non-scientific medicines - many of the herbal medicines that I've had actually have worked. My Chinese herbal cough remedy has worked better than an over-the-counter cough remedy, and guess which one has been around for thousands of years?

Please don't criticise us for things that not a lot of us actually do not do.

 Manchu wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain how I'm wrong.

MGS already did. Meanwhile, please stop hijacking the thread.

On-topic, was anyone actually hunting great white sharks in American waters before this law was passed?

Actually he didn't. At least not related to the quote I posted.

Yes they were, though I'm not sure of the date when they were put on the endangered list. I do know after Jaws came out there was something like a 1000 fold increase in retaliatory shark killings. From a movie.

 Manchu wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain how I'm wrong.

MGS already did. Meanwhile, please stop hijacking the thread.

On-topic, was anyone actually hunting great white sharks in American waters before this law was passed?

I'm familiar with US Fishing Industry (and Fishing Tourism).

As a rule, they don't actively go after the great whites (takes serious time/gear/money).

Accidently catching sharks happens all the time though.

 Manchu wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain how I'm wrong.

MGS already did. Meanwhile, please stop hijacking the thread.

On-topic, was anyone actually hunting great white sharks in American waters before this law was passed?

Sheriff Brody and Quint?

 Frazzled wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain how I'm wrong.

MGS already did. Meanwhile, please stop hijacking the thread.

On-topic, was anyone actually hunting great white sharks in American waters before this law was passed?

Sheriff Brody and Quint?

Quite possible the best scene in cinema history.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
- Am I allowed to criticise Europeans from eating Persian Fallow Deer? You probably eat it as much as I eat Shark Fin soup or my Japanese friend eats bottle-nosed dolphin.
- As for your non-scientific medicines - many of the herbal medicines that I've had actually have worked. My Chinese herbal cough remedy has worked better than an over-the-counter cough remedy, and guess which one has been around for thousands of years?

Please don't criticise us for things that not a lot of us actually do not do.

I've never even heard of Persian fallow deer. Of course I'm not European.

We need to stop eating sharks in general. As an apex predator with a low reproduction rate and a relatively long lifespan, we're spending more time and money to catch them, the meat flavor and texture can be had from a multitude of less threatened animals and the mercury content is very high.

There are only a few shark species that are even remotely sustainable to eat, and I've seen convincing arguments that those are shakier than they seem.

I don't believe we should eat them either. All the Shark's Fin does is add a bit of unnecessary texture. The soup will be fine without it. I'm just saying that it's unfair that Westerners make Chinese people seem to want to eat Shark's Fin every day.

I hadn't heard of Persian Fallow Deer before writing that reply, I'm sure many Europeans haven't heard of it either. Which is my point. Few people eat it, and few people eat Shark's Fin Soup.

Shark Steaks are yummy though...

With some season'ed horseradish... AWESOME!

Y'all know me. Know how I earn a livin'. I'll catch this bird for you, but it ain't gonna be easy. Bad fish. Not like going down the pond chasin' bluegills and tommycods. This shark, swallow you whole. Little shakin', little tenderizin', an' down you go. And we gotta do it quick, that'll bring back your tourists, put all your businesses on a payin' basis. But it's not gonna be pleasant. I value my neck a lot more than three thousand bucks, chief. I'll find him for three, but I'll catch him, and kill him, for ten. But you've gotta make up your minds. If you want to stay alive, then ante up. If you want to play it cheap, be on welfare the whole winter. I don't want no volunteers, I don't want no mates, there's just too many captains on this island. $10,000 for me by myself. For that you get the head, the tail, the whole damn thing......


But in all seriousness this is really messed up.

 Medium of Death wrote:
Thrown back into the sea, finless.

That's the most barbaric practice. If you're going to hunt them, fine, but at least kill them humanely.

I also feel the same way about lobster fisherman who snap lobster in two and throw the front end overboard. At least kill it first.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

Well, as someone from China myself . . .

1- Most herbal medicines will not have tiger willy or things in them. It's why they're called herbal medicines. They have herbs. Few medicines will have animal parts in them.
2- Shark Fin soup is not something that we'll eat all the time. It's eaten on a special occasion. Granted, one billion people eating it, on average, less than once every two years maximum (and many probably do not even do that, I for one haven't had it in about eight years, plus it's very expensive compared to, say, Char Siu Fan) does equal a lot of dead sharks, but let's put things into perspective - it's not something that everyone will eat a lot, and it's a consequence of Chinese overpopulation.
3- Some Japanese do like their exotic seafoods, but like Chinese people eating Shark's Fin soup, they're not going to be sitting down every Sunday evening to eat whale sushi with a side of dolphin sashimi.
4- A lot of the things that you mentioned are traditional cultural things. A thousand years ago, Sharks and Tigers were probably a lot more common than they are now. The Tiger was seen as a strong and powerful animal, for example. I don't see what's wrong with that.
5- Am I allowed to criticise Europeans from eating Persian Fallow Deer? You probably eat it as much as I eat Shark Fin soup or my Japanese friend eats bottle-nosed dolphin.
6- As for your non-scientific medicines - many of the herbal medicines that I've had actually have worked. My Chinese herbal cough remedy has worked better than an over-the-counter cough remedy, and guess which one has been around for thousands of years?

Please don't criticise us for things that not a lot of us actually do not do.

I already explained I was not criticizing individuals not indulging in racism. However China is guilty as sin of taking little to no action to prevent and enabling to flourish, the continued trade in animals being forced into extinction. You may not like the criticism, you might decide to take it personally, that's your choice, but what I've said is fact.

Let me cover off your raised points:

1. Most traditional remedies not containing the vital parts of endangered animals does not stop lots of traditional remedies containing the vital parts of endangered animals.

2. This is as useless a raised point as your previous statement, shark fin soup is placing massive pressure on almost all shark species in the world. Overpopulation is not an excuse, if the overpopulated country of China stopped eating it, there would be more sharks.

3. See above, the demand is still pushing species to extinction. It has nothing to do with how many times a day someone eats something, if several thousand people want to eat an animal and there's only a few hundred of them left, then the species goes extinct... unless those people are told 'no'.

4. What does this have to do with pushing an entire species into extinction?

5. I am unaware of a Europe-wide demand for Persian Fallow Deer, I do know that they are protected and there is serious consequence for hunting them. There would be little to no demand in the UK, for example, for this animal, certainly once it's status as highly endangered was known. Also, pointing and saying 'but they do it!' is a poor excuse indeed.

6. Again, more red herring. I have no doubt certain plant derived remedies work. That's a piss poor diversion from 'eating tiger cock makes you a great lover' or 'rhino horn will make you live longer', because those things have been tested and it's utter bs.


And I am not criticizing you personally, nor am I criticizing you as a Chinese person, I am criticizing the Chinese, Japanese and other Far Eastern nations for not taking steps to eliminate the continued demand for non-essential and ridiculous products that result in the extinction of the species we share the earth with.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Snrub wrote:
It fething gaks me up the wall when i see fin less sharks dumped in the ocean. Boils my blood.

Why don't you and a group of fellow believers put your money where your mouth is and start blowing up fishing boats?

Yes, that seems like a reasonable response, with no action short of that being acceptable.

 whembly wrote:
Shark Steaks are yummy though...

With some season'ed horseradish... AWESOME!

You've got that right. I've never been disappointed by shark filet. Very good texture and easy to sear.

That said, I'm 100% comfortable forgoing it in the future and sticking to grouper and tuna, which can be quite similar in the hands of a good cook. Though I will admit, grouper and tuna have their own share of overfishing and you want to watch your sourcing. Plus the mercury issue is still relevant with tuna.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

Well, as someone from China myself . . .

1- Most herbal medicines will not have tiger willy or things in them. It's why they're called herbal medicines. They have herbs. Few medicines will have animal parts in them.
2- Shark Fin soup is not something that we'll eat all the time. It's eaten on a special occasion. Granted, one billion people eating it, on average, less than once every two years maximum (and many probably do not even do that, I for one haven't had it in about eight years, plus it's very expensive compared to, say, Char Siu Fan) does equal a lot of dead sharks, but let's put things into perspective - it's not something that everyone will eat a lot, and it's a consequence of Chinese overpopulation.
3- Some Japanese do like their exotic seafoods, but like Chinese people eating Shark's Fin soup, they're not going to be sitting down every Sunday evening to eat whale sushi with a side of dolphin sashimi.
4- A lot of the things that you mentioned are traditional cultural things. A thousand years ago, Sharks and Tigers were probably a lot more common than they are now. The Tiger was seen as a strong and powerful animal, for example. I don't see what's wrong with that.
5- Am I allowed to criticise Europeans from eating Persian Fallow Deer? You probably eat it as much as I eat Shark Fin soup or my Japanese friend eats bottle-nosed dolphin.
6- As for your non-scientific medicines - many of the herbal medicines that I've had actually have worked. My Chinese herbal cough remedy has worked better than an over-the-counter cough remedy, and guess which one has been around for thousands of years?

Please don't criticise us for things that not a lot of us actually do not do.

I already explained I was not criticizing individuals not indulging in racism. However China is guilty as sin of taking little to no action to prevent and enabling to flourish, the continued trade in animals being forced into extinction. You may not like the criticism, you might decide to take it personally, that's your choice, but what I've said is fact.

Let me cover off your raised points:

1. Most traditional remedies not containing the vital parts of endangered animals does not stop lots of traditional remedies containing the vital parts of endangered animals.
2. This is as useless a raised point as your previous statement, shark fin soup is placing massive pressure on almost all shark species in the world. Overpopulation is not an excuse, if the overpopulated country of China stopped eating it, there would be more sharks.
3. See above, the demand is still pushing species to extinction. It has nothing to do with how many times a day someone eats something, if several thousand people want to eat an animal and there's only a few hundred of them left, then the species goes extinct... unless those people are told 'no'.
4. What does this have to do with pushing an entire species into extinction?
5. I am unaware of a Europe-wide demand for Persian Fallow Deer, I do know that they are protected and there is serious consequence for hunting them. There would be little to no demand in the UK, for example, for this animal, certainly once it's status as highly endangered was known. Also, pointing and saying 'but they do it!' is a poor excuse indeed.
6. Again, more red herring. I have no doubt certain plant derived remedies work. That's a piss poor diversion from 'eating tiger cock makes you a great lover' or 'rhino horn will make you live longer', because those things have been tested and it's utter bs.

1. You'll find that, actually, lots of traditional remedies do not have endangered animals. A tiny amount will.
2. Linked to point number four: you're not going to China to stop eating it. Well, the few that actually do eat it regularly. It's cultural. It's like trying to tell you Americans that you should stop eating beef because of global warming.
3. There are so many other reasons why whales and dolphins are becoming extinct. It's not a case of one country eating it. Changes in ecosystems, bad fishing practices etc are pushing whales and dolphins to extinction.
4. I've explained it in 2.
5. Precisely.
6. You know, I don't think too many Chinese people believe or believed that anyway.

Yes, something needs to be done. But look at yourself first: what practices are my fishermen using that are harming them? What am I doing that could theoretically harm whale species? Let me give you a chain of things that could harm the numbers of whales:

1: You (and millions of others) do something that contributes to the greenhouse effect.
2: This warms up the seas ever so slightly.
3: Algae bloom.
4: Phytoplankton can no longer photosynthesise so easily so many die.
5: Zooplankton are deprived of one of their major sources of food, so they die as well.
6: Whales eat zooplankton, and with the reduction of zooplankton they struggle to find food. Many die.

I haven't seen the statistics, but I'm pretty sure that more whales die for less tangible reasons such as the one above than die from Japanese whaling.

Please note that I am myself an environmentalist. I want to preserve forests, seas and the air. I'd rather it if we lived in harmony with nature rather than just destroy it. But I come from a more Spiritual line of thought, so that may be where my views differ slightly.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

1. You'll find that, actually, lots of traditional remedies do not have endangered animals. A tiny amount will.
2. Linked to point number four: you're not going to China to stop eating it. Well, the few that actually do eat it regularly. It's cultural. It's like trying to tell you Americans that you should stop eating beef because of global warming.
3. There are so many other reasons why whales and dolphins are becoming extinct. It's not a case of one country eating it. Changes in ecosystems, bad fishing practices etc are pushing whales and dolphins to extinction.
4. I've explained it in 2.
5. Precisely.
6. You know, I don't think too many Chinese people believe or believed that anyway.

Yes, something needs to be done. But look at yourself first: what practices are my fishermen using that are harming them? What am I doing that could theoretically harm whale species? Let me give you a chain of things that could harm the numbers of whales:

1: You (and millions of others) do something that contributes to the greenhouse effect.
2: This warms up the seas ever so slightly.
3: Algae bloom.
4: Phytoplankton can no longer photosynthesise so easily so many die.
5: Zooplankton are deprived of one of their major sources of food, so they die as well.
6: Whales eat zooplankton, and with the reduction of zooplankton they struggle to find food. Many die.

I haven't seen the statistics, but I'm pretty sure that more whales die for less tangible reasons such as the one above than die from Japanese whaling.

Please note that I am myself an environmentalist. I want to preserve forests, seas and the air. I'd rather it if we lived in harmony with nature rather than just destroy it. But I come from a more Spiritual line of thought, so that may be where my views differ slightly.

It's this sort of deflection and evasive talk that allow the continuation of the problem in your country.

Again, let me break down your points in turn:

1. I've already covered this: You can have 1 in 100 remedies involve the use of a vital organ from an endangered animal and it's still going to result in a dead endangered animal to use that product and as you've already covered, in a massively overpopulated country like China, that demand is actually still then fairly large. It is causing animals to go extinct.

2. Red herring: Yes, global warming is bad, it's not what we're talking about, we're talking about your country's cultural needs for delicacies and hoodoo medicines bringing about the extinction of species across the world. You can point and say 'but these things are bad as well' and you'll still not have changed the fact that China is destroying species for wasteful and self indulgent reasons.

3. There is indeed ecological pressure on these species, that's why it would be a really smart move to stop eating them or rending them down for nonfuctional medicines!

4. No you didn't.

5. ?

6. Enough do to be making species across the world extinct and not enough of the Chinese who do not believe this are trying to stop them.



As to the rest of it, yes, all these other pressures are coming to bear on these species... so people need to stop eating them or turning them into aphrodisiacs or 'medicines'...