Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm GMing a Rogue Trader campaign right now and have been for some time. One of my most enthusiastic players, however, has a tendency to power game. It seems he is only concerned with having the most powerful character, obtaining the best gear and slaughtering anything I throw at him. He frequently complains about the gear he receives as rewards, claiming it isn't good enough (even though he has a boltgun, power axe and between subskin armor and regular armor, AP values of 7). Both of his characters thus far have been very weak on actual personality/character, and he rarely actually role plays. He's very competitive in nature and it doesn't translate well to this game. Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

A Bloodthirster?

Maybe it would help if he played a character who was as loot hungry as he was. It's best if both player and character are in the boat for the same reasons.

As with all RPGs the idea is for everybody to have fun, so the question is can his vision of what the game is meant to be be fitted in with what yours is

(and where do any other players ideas fit in)

Can you (or would you) consider tailoring the game more towards 40K 'bolter porn', as from the sound of it that's what he wants. If the other players are ok with this it might be the best way to go.

If you don't want to go that way (and the other players agree) then sit him down and have a talk with him, tell him explicitly what sort of game you are trying to run, and if he won't play ball he has to go

(it would be better to just say, sorry you don't fit with this game, rather than being petty and repeatedly killing his character)

Not an ideal situation either way round but better to deal with it early than waste lots of time where nobodys really enjoying it

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
As with all RPGs the idea is for everybody to have fun

I find your ideas interesting and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

The problem doesn't lie with him constantly wanting better loot, he just constantly wants a more powerful character. It's like he's trying to beat the game. I do give them loot fairly often after completing missions, but he always complains it isn't powerful enough. No one else complains about this issue. I'm talking to him one on one tomorrow, we'll see how it goes.

Simple: give him a super powered item with a consequence.

A bolter that is highly powerful but could harm him if over used. Armor that is high in protection, but could turn him to chaos. A Maul that has a chance to kill him immediately, but will smite any foe he encounters.

Show him the double edged sword of raw power.

Have a session that involves delicate trade negotiations and subtle use of influence. Let him sit uninvolved.

I think it'll learn him real quick.

Have the party captured and lose all of their gear. Then he will be happy when he gets an autopistol next adventure.

Have him corrupted by khorne, for being too bloodthirsty and skilled in martial combat.

So far, everytime I exploit some sort of weakness in his character or another, it just encourages him further. He's not the brightest nor the most well-versed in 40k lore, and will bug me and pester me about what he can do to alleviate whatever weakness he's suffering from. If I ever give him said answer about what he could ever possibly obtain or do, he will harass me until he gets it. It's almost as if I'm dealing with a small child...

See how your talk goes with him today. Tell him that he's being to needy and his constant badgering is not making what should be a fun game fun. Tell him that part of the most RPGs is having drawbacks and learning to deal with them.

We've had to pull people aside when they were disruptive in our groups. Some changed their ways when they realized they were disruptive. Others have gone their separate ways. Just because you both like RPGs, that doesn't mean you both like the same style. If he can't back down after your talk with him to day, you might have to ask him to leave. It's not the end of the world. But one person spoiling it for 5 other people is just being selfish.

I recomend giving him a serious lesson of the dangers of raw power, as others have suggested. Have him loose all his gear, suffer severe penalties fro a few sessions. Then if he acts up again make sure his character dies!

IME, never try to discipline a power gamer/minmaxer with mechanics-based tactics. That is what such gamers call a "a challenge." You have already identified the real problem: in your own words, he's trying to "beat the game." You might take a close look at your GMing: remember that, no matter that PnP came first, these concepts have been altered by the video game context. Conceiving of "loot" as a reward for play is just the kind of video game trope that leads to munckin antics in the first place. With table top RPGs, character and story development are the rewards. Put in a bit more presumptuous way: "the play itself" is the reward. Unlike something like WoW, you don't just meaninglessly grind through dozens of hours to get to level whatever or for X items. Table top RPG sessions shouldn't be grinding for gear or XP -- or rather, to the extent that the GM allows it, s/he's encouraging munchikinitis.

 Manchu wrote:
IME, never try to discipline a power gamer/minmaxer with mechanics-based tactics. That is what such gamers call a "a challenge." You have already identified the real problem: in your own words, he's trying to "beat the game." You might take a close look at your GMing: remember that, no matter that PnP came first, these concepts have been altered by the video game context. Conceiving of "loot" as a reward for play is just the kind of video game trope that leads to munckin antics in the first place. With table top RPGs, character and story development are the rewards. Put in a bit more presumptuous way: "the play itself" is the reward. Unlike something like WoW, you don't just meaninglessly grind through dozens of hours to get to level whatever or for X items. Table top RPG sessions shouldn't be grinding for gear or XP -- or rather, to the extent that the GM allows it, s/he's encouraging munchikinitis.

Very good points. I have already decided to severely cut down on the amount of loot I had out. However, after having given them xp every session since the beginning of the campaign, how do I simply stop handing out xp?

The conversation went bad. He didn't get mad or defensive, and although he agreed to quit complaining, he fails to see the how insignificant or petty his complaints are (complaining because the item he got in a game that exists almost solely in our imagination). In addition, he doesn't see anything wrong with continuing to play competitively ("but I don't rub how good my character is in the other players faces!"). Meaning he is still going to be pissed when things don't go his way and if his character ever dies. This is a bit of a problem since the game is set in the 40k universe so obviously I like to keep death an ever present threat. He comes from a very competitive family, how do I go against 19 years of training him to be a super-competitive egomaniac?

I guess I'll have to see how he behaves over the next few sessions. Maybe I just need to chill out a little bit and try not to let my resentment of power gamers get to me.

You don't need to stop handing out XP. Just make sure you more often hand it out based on the party's overall effectiveness rather than on a strictly individual basis.

Also, power gamers aren't necessarily doing anything wrong unless their antics start interfering with other players' good time. As the GM, it can be easy to forget that you are one of the players, too. If the power gaming is making you less willing to spend the time and effort GMing, you need to make that clear to the entire group. Same goes for him: if he wants to play something more geared to hack'n'slash, then a narrative-heavy group does not (to put it in power gamer lingo) optimize his experience.

"The reward for gaming is the time spent developing my character in the larger story."

"The reward for gaming is leveling up and getting better gear."

Maybe put those two statements in front of your group and see who gravitates towards what or whether they come up with some other ways of finishing the sentence. It's a good idea for gamers in a group to be on the same page as to what the goals of the group actually are. It tends to help with (but not necessarily prevent) GM burnout and PC burnout.

 imark789 wrote:

Very good points. I have already decided to severely cut down on the amount of loot I had out. However, after having given them xp every session since the beginning of the campaign, how do I simply stop handing out xp?

The conversation went bad. He didn't get mad or defensive, and although he agreed to quit complaining, he fails to see the how insignificant or petty his complaints are (complaining because the item he got in a game that exists almost solely in our imagination). In addition, he doesn't see anything wrong with continuing to play competitively ("but I don't rub how good my character is in the other players faces!"). Meaning he is still going to be pissed when things don't go his way and if his character ever dies. This is a bit of a problem since the game is set in the 40k universe so obviously I like to keep death an ever present threat. He comes from a very competitive family, how do I go against 19 years of training him to be a super-competitive egomaniac?

I guess I'll have to see how he behaves over the next few sessions. Maybe I just need to chill out a little bit and try not to let my resentment of power gamers get to me.

I'll be frank. You and he do not have the same ideas about what is fun. His reply of "but I don't rub how good my character is in other players faces" is chock full of power gamerness. You don't rub anything in another RPG player's face. That's not the point of an RPG. Further "how good" is meaningless in an RPG. Yes, you might have a great fighter, but if you don't support your cleric and wizard, or run amok, you can really f-up an encounter just from your own stupidity.

IMHO, you have to ask yourself a few questions: For the sake of his continued friendship, are you willing to continue playing with him, even though it makes your "fun time" less enjoyable?

If so, see how the next few weeks go. Correct him EVERY time he whines about his character flaws. In fact, start telling him NO when he demands that you put something in the adventure to lessen his flaws.

If not, then you may need to cut ties with him in your game.

We've kicked 2 people out of our groups because they just didn't fit. One was a power gamer that kept provoking NPCs and such, getting the party in trouble. His excuse was always "I'm just playing my character". He thought that all Chaotic Neutral characters were insane. There are groups that like that sort of thing. Ours doesn't. The other person intentionally went out of his way to make annoying characters. You have a Paladin in the group? Sweet! I'll make an evil character that worships a diametrically opposed god, and so on. He wasn't having fun unless there was party conflict and/or PVP. Again, some groups are into that. Even after these guys were told that we're not into that sort of role playing, they continued. We showed them the door. To be honest, our group got much better immediately afterwards each time.

Yea there's no doubt he power games, he tried to talk me into letting him pay cash (real life cash) for an in game item once. Thankfully he's not bright enough to abuse the system very well. If he can keep his whining to himself and I severely limit the amount of gear I put in his hands, I think it may work out.

LOL, you could make a killing on "DLC microtransactions" with this guy.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
As with all RPGs the idea is for everybody to have fun, so the question is can his vision of what the game is meant to be be fitted in with what yours is

(and where do any other players ideas fit in)

Can you (or would you) consider tailoring the game more towards 40K 'bolter porn', as from the sound of it that's what he wants. If the other players are ok with this it might be the best way to go.

If you don't want to go that way (and the other players agree) then sit him down and have a talk with him, tell him explicitly what sort of game you are trying to run, and if he won't play ball he has to go

(it would be better to just say, sorry you don't fit with this game, rather than being petty and repeatedly killing his character)

Not an ideal situation either way round but better to deal with it early than waste lots of time where nobodys really enjoying it

This is great advice... To restate it, talk to him.

I could see a munchkin attitude being common in the 40k RPGs because of the crossover from more 'competitive' wargaming to more 'cooperative' RPGs. He may not realize that the experience is the reward here, not the XPs.

One overpowered character can be a major issue to a GM as fights will ened to be calibrated to challenge that character, which may mean the others have to sit on the sidelines.

I did talk to him-see above. He fails to see why he should maybe, possibly, take the game a little less seriously or why competitive gaming in a PnP is a problem. He still doesn't even realize how petty or stupid his complaints are about the gear he receives. They still seem totally justified to him, which blows my mind...

Give it too more sessions.

If improvement, great for everyone.

If not, boot him and move on.

 imark789 wrote:
I did talk to him-see above. He fails to see why he should maybe, possibly, take the game a little less seriously or why competitive gaming in a PnP is a problem. He still doesn't even realize how petty or stupid his complaints are about the gear he receives. They still seem totally justified to him, which blows my mind...

You may need to ask him to not return.

Yep.

Not everyone fits into every game. He may need help realizing that he is a poor fit for this campaign.

On a side note, do the other players care?

 kronk wrote:
Give it too more sessions.

If improvement, great for everyone.

If not, boot him and move on.

Agreed. If this person can't
1-understand that that isn't a good way of playing
or
2-understand that, regardless of how well justified he feels he is, it's still causing problems

Then he's got more social problems than not being able to play pretend, and it's not your problem. I'd give him 1-2 games to show improvement, then gently shove him out.

You could write a scenario without combat.

Even better, you could write a scenario without combat, with a specific scene were his caracter was in the spotlight. Give him a chance to taste how "roleplaying" can be fun.

Maybe he will like it. Maybe not.

Balance wrote:You may need to ask him to not return.

The tough part is, to some degree or another, he's a friend.

pretre wrote:On a side note, do the other players care?

They haven't said anything to me specifically, I haven't asked specifically. I can imagine they don't enjoy the couple times we've had to spend a few minutes arguing over a rule or whatever equipment he received. The main problem with it all is just that he gets upset when things don't go his way. If I don't let him use a certain skill, if his character gets into a tight spot, if he doesn't get the equipment he feels he should...he may not complain about it anymore, but that may lead to just him brooding over it. We'll have to see it.

M_Stress wrote:You could write a scenario without combat.

Even better, you could write a scenario without combat, with a specific scene were his caracter was in the spotlight. Give him a chance to taste how "roleplaying" can be fun.

Maybe he will like it. Maybe not.

But the rest of the party enjoys combat to some degree or another as well. And I always come up short on ideas for combat-free missions.

I might subtly find out from the others what they think. If they don't care or like his take on it, it may just be you. If they don't like it, then you have more reason why he isn't a good fit.

Cripple his character, make his gear worthless, make him wish he hadn't drawn your ire.

"You are the Dungeon Master, he is your pawn."

Or w/e Dexter says in that episode.


As someone that has had to kick friends out, if he's really a friend, he'll understand him not meshing with the group.

Stuff you can do:

Talk to random stranger about him (that's us).

Talk to him.

Talk to the other player to find out if the situation bothers them.

Stop playing with him.

Keep playing with him:
* play a game were he has a lot of fun (plenty combat & goodies) and hope his attitude don't bother others
* play a game to punish him. (I dont know what good will come of it, but it has been suggested a couple of time)
* play a game where everyone has fun, but try to minimized the situation where he can get annoying.