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I cannot seem to find anything in the Eldar codex or FAQ to indicate that the Falcon cannot transport Bulky or Very Bulky models. Is there any reason Aun'Va cannot be transported in a Falcon and extend his abilities to Tau units within 12" of the sides of the Falcon?
40k-noob wrote: Allies cannot embark vehicles of the allied army.
No Tau units cannot embark Eldar vehicles.
Depends on whether or not the IC rule that states the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes overrides that restrictions. If it does, Aun'Va still cannot embark as he is not an IC.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
40k-noob wrote: Allies cannot embark vehicles of the allied army.
No Tau units cannot embark Eldar vehicles.
Depends on whether or not the IC rule that states the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes overrides that restrictions. If it does, Aun'Va still cannot embark as he is not an IC.
Just clarifying here (on a separate but similar manner), does that mean in an IG force with DA Allies, you can attach a Techmarine with a Power Field Generator to a vet squad (or any other IG squad for that matter) and it can ride in a Vendetta?
40k-noob wrote: Allies cannot embark vehicles of the allied army.
No Tau units cannot embark Eldar vehicles.
Depends on whether or not the IC rule that states the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes overrides that restrictions. If it does, Aun'Va still cannot embark as he is not an IC.
Page 112 makes it clear that Allies, even Battle Brothers cannot embark Allied Transports.
40k-noob wrote: Allies cannot embark vehicles of the allied army.
No Tau units cannot embark Eldar vehicles.
Depends on whether or not the IC rule that states the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes overrides that restrictions. If it does, Aun'Va still cannot embark as he is not an IC.
Page 112 makes it clear that Allies, even Battle Brothers cannot embark Allied Transports.
And the IC rule makes it clear that the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes. Which is why I said that it depends on how (if ever) GW rules it.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
40k-noob wrote: Allies cannot embark vehicles of the allied army.
No Tau units cannot embark Eldar vehicles.
Depends on whether or not the IC rule that states the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes overrides that restrictions. If it does, Aun'Va still cannot embark as he is not an IC.
Page 112 makes it clear that Allies, even Battle Brothers cannot embark Allied Transports.
And the IC rule makes it clear that the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes. Which is why I said that it depends on how (if ever) GW rules it.
I do not see how these points can be any more clear.
BRBpg 112 wrote: Battle Brothers are treated as 'friendly units' from all points of view. This means, for example, that Battle Brothers: . Can be joined by allied Independent Characters. . Are counted as being friendly units for the targeting of psychic powers, abilities and so on. . However, note that not even Battle Brothers can embark in allied transport vehicles.
It is clear that IC can join Allied squads, and as the IC rules state are treated as "normal" members of that unit. However the Allied rules for Battle Brothers go further on to note that even Battle Brothers cannot embark on Allied Transports.
Normal member of that unit or not, it doesn't matter. This rule explicitly prohibits an Allied model, whether IC or any other unit type/character, from embarking on an Allied transport.
edit: spelling
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/18 17:43:57
40k-noob wrote: Allies cannot embark vehicles of the allied army.
No Tau units cannot embark Eldar vehicles.
Depends on whether or not the IC rule that states the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes overrides that restrictions. If it does, Aun'Va still cannot embark as he is not an IC.
Page 112 makes it clear that Allies, even Battle Brothers cannot embark Allied Transports.
And the IC rule makes it clear that the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes. Which is why I said that it depends on how (if ever) GW rules it.
I do not see how these points can be any more clear.
BRBpg 112 wrote: Battle Brothers are treated as 'friendly units' from all points of view. This means, for example, that Battle Brothers: . Can be joined by allied Independent Characters. . Are counted as being friendly units for the targeting of psychic powers, abilities and so on. . However, note that not even Battle Brothers can embark in allied transport vehicles.
It is clear that IC can join Allied squads, and as the IC rules state are treated as "normal" members of that unit. However the Allied rules for Battle Brothers go further on to note that even Battle Brothers cannot embark on Allied Transports.
Normal member of that unit or not, it doesn't matter. This rule explicitly prohibits an Allied model, whether IC or any other unit type/character, from embarking on an Allied transport.
edit: spelling
(Spoiler'd to cut down on post size).
So you are arguing that an IC is not a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes?
Edit: I'm not saying my "side" is the right one. Nor do I play it that way. However, it is how I read the rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/18 19:43:47
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
What I believe my Jovial Hebrew brother is trying to say is that for all rules purposes the IC has joined a unit that is legal to embark on a transport and therefore also legal.
The Battlebrothers rule says "Not even Battle brothers can embark on an allied transport"; referring to Battlebrother units. But, as soon as the Battlebrother IC joins the Allied unit he has become for all rules purposes part of the allied unit(they do not become BBs).
Ergo A BBIC ceases to be a BB Unit when joined to an allied unit, and allied units are of course allowed to embark on their owed transports.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
40k-noob wrote: Allies cannot embark vehicles of the allied army.
No Tau units cannot embark Eldar vehicles.
Depends on whether or not the IC rule that states the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes overrides that restrictions. If it does, Aun'Va still cannot embark as he is not an IC.
Page 112 makes it clear that Allies, even Battle Brothers cannot embark Allied Transports.
And the IC rule makes it clear that the IC is a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes. Which is why I said that it depends on how (if ever) GW rules it.
I do not see how these points can be any more clear.
BRBpg 112 wrote:
Battle Brothers are treated as 'friendly units' from all
points of view. This means, for example, that Battle Brothers:
. Can be joined by allied Independent Characters.
. Are counted as being friendly units for the targeting of
psychic powers, abilities and so on.
. However, note that not even Battle Brothers can embark in
allied transport vehicles.
It is clear that IC can join Allied squads, and as the IC rules state are treated as "normal" members of that unit. However the Allied rules for Battle Brothers go further on to note that even Battle Brothers cannot embark on Allied Transports.
Normal member of that unit or not, it doesn't matter. This rule explicitly prohibits an Allied model, whether IC or any other unit type/character, from embarking on an Allied transport.
edit: spelling
(Spoiler'd to cut down on post size).
So you are arguing that an IC is not a normal member of the unit for all rule purposes?
Edit: I'm not saying my "side" is the right one. Nor do I play it that way. However, it is how I read the rules.
I am arguing that a BB does not cease to be BB just because he joined an Allied unit.
While IC gives that model certain benfits, the BB rules still slaps a No on this particular ability.
Kommissar Kel wrote: Ergo A BBIC ceases to be a BB Unit when joined to an allied unit, ....
Which doesn't matter, because the rules don't forbid allied units from embarking.
If I join a American football team, for all intents and purposes I am a member of that team. But I'm still from another country.
(I'm not likely to join an American football team.)
Like I said earlier, my interpretation is how I read the rules interaction. Per the IC rules an attached IC is a normal member of the unit for all rules purposes. BBs not being able to embark into an allied transport is a rule. Ergo, since the BB is a normal member of the unit it joins, then it can embark into an allied transport. HIWPI, however is that they cannot. There are number of rule interpretations that can go both ways (like a bi-sexual), however, I don't always play it the way I think it works (such as taking 4 Burst Cannons on a Commander).
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
If being a allied BB IC overrides the restriction for getting in allied transports, then shouldn't an allied BB IC in terminator armor be able to get in a rhino?
If not, what's the difference?
Both are restrictions to who can get in a transport, and if being a BB IC somehow overrides one, then it overrides the other also right?
insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.
BarBoBot wrote: If being a allied BB IC overrides the restriction for getting in allied transports, then shouldn't an allied BB IC in terminator armor be able to get in a rhino?
If not, what's the difference?
Both are restrictions to who can get in a transport, and if being a BB IC somehow overrides one, then it overrides the other also right?
No. You have to override each restriction individually, just like for things like assaults.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
Kommissar Kel wrote: Ergo A BBIC ceases to be a BB Unit when joined to an allied unit, ....
Which doesn't matter, because the rules don't forbid allied units from embarking.
If I join a American football team, for all intents and purposes I am a member of that team. But I'm still from another country.
(I'm not likely to join an American football team.)
Which is exactly my Point the rules affecting Battle brothers is all based on "Units"; the Tone is set in the First sentence:"Battle brothers are treated as 'friendly units' from all points of view. This means, for example, that battle brothers:"
The Battle brothers before the Colon is clearly referencing The same Battle Brothers from the first sentence which is clearly referring to Units in that those battle brothers are friendly Units.
Since the List after the Colon is where the denial of battle brothers within Allied transports then those battle brothers are specifically units of Battle brothers not individual battle brothers within an allied unit(as allowed by the first point that a BB ICunit may freely join to an allied Unit).
Allied units are allowed to embark on allied transports, having a Battle brother IC in the allied unit does not change the fact that the unit embarking is an Allied unit and that only Battle brother units(by context) are denied entry to allied transports.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
Kommissar Kel wrote: Since the List after the Colon is where the denial of battle brothers within Allied transports then those battle brothers are specifically units of Battle brothers not individual battle brothers within an allied unit(as allowed by the first point that a BB ICunit may freely join to an allied Unit).
It doesn't refer to units where it bars them from transports. It simply blanket bans battle brothers from entering allied transports.
"Battle brothers" is established as Units(friendly ones); and the bar on "Battle Brothers" in transports is a list within that paragraph.
It absolutely is referring to units of battle brothers in all 3 points.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
It doesn't refer to units where it bars them from transports. It simply blanket bans battle brothers from entering allied transports.
I think both sides of this argument have merit. Although, I may be biased, as I think the above rule is just sort of silly for battle brothers.
I'd like to see it FAQed to include BBs as normal members of the parent army for all intents and purposes. Short of this, it'd be nice if they FAQed it either way.
There is NO SUCH THING as MORE ADVANCED in 40k!!! There are ONLY 2 LEVELS of RULES: Basic and Advanced. THE END. Stop saying "More Advanced". That is not a recognized thing in modern 40k!!!! 2500
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"Battle brothers" is established as Units(friendly ones); and the bar on "Battle Brothers" in transports is a list within that paragraph.
It absolutely is referring to units of battle brothers in all 3 points.
You are assuming that the IC stops being a Unit of his Army.
That by joining an allied unit, the IC is no longer a member of Army X but becomes a unit member of the Allied Army Y which is not the case.
No where in any of the rules are any units allowed to switch armies.
No I am reading the rules that state an IC is a member of the unit he joins For all rules purposes.
You see he does stop being a unit of his own army.
And, As the unit embarking is a legal unit to embark(A unit from the same army); then they may embark.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
Yes, yes it does, for the entire length of time it is attached to the unit from Army Y; this is because the IC rules have the IC model become a member of the joined unit completely for the entire time it is attached.
Since the Unit is from Army Y, then the unit from army Y may ride in the transport from Army Y because it never stops being a unit from Army Y, even with a model from Army X joined to it.
ICs join and become part of Units, not ever the other way around.
So yes the fact that the paragraph and list are referring to Units is relevant and the Unit is from the same army as the transport.
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
Kommissar Kel wrote: Yes, yes it does, for the entire length of time it is attached to the unit from Army Y; this is because the IC rules have the IC model become a member of the joined unit completely for the entire time it is attached.
Since the Unit is from Army Y, then the unit from army Y may ride in the transport from Army Y because it never stops being a unit from Army Y, even with a model from Army X joined to it.
ICs join and become part of Units, not ever the other way around.
So yes the fact that the paragraph and list are referring to Units is relevant and the Unit is from the same army as the transport.
Well now I have to ask you where in the rules does it say you stop being a unit of your army?
IC rules grant benefits, to my knowledge they do not take away anything like being a unit of its own army.
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